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> E-minor Rockish Bit, feedback please!
exorcyze
post Sep 15 2007, 12:43 AM
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I've been feeling incredibly uninspired for creating music lately and I finally actually felt like playing yesterday. Came up with a little something that ended up being fun for me to play, so I don't feel so worthless on guitar for the moment ( I haven't practiced very much in a while, nor done much creation aside from a couple collaborations ).

I welcome any and all feedback : Melodic ideas, execution, recording tone (looking at you Andrew!), etc. I'd like to work on the tone a bit, cause I'm not sure I have my boosts / cuts at the right point in the eq. Also, this was an initial recording - so not quite finalized, but it will keep evolving as I play anyway so I thought I'd share.

Update:

Attached File  e_minor_rock___izotope.mp3 ( 1.04MB ) Number of downloads: 504


Did a couple minor updates to the EQ settings for the guitars and added a couple iZotope presets on the master for some reverb, widening, exciting and suchwhats. Also panned the two guitars about 12% to either side. It does widen it and clean up the noise, though it almost sounds a little muddy or muffled to me. I'm not familiar with all of what the Ozone is capable of.

This post has been edited by exorcyze: Sep 15 2007, 07:10 AM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  e_minor_rock.mp3 ( 1.04MB ) Number of downloads: 487
 


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Robin
post Sep 15 2007, 03:01 AM
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I have to be honest and say that the guitar sound was horrible in my ears.

Other than that it was awesome! Good playing and I liked the soloing and melodies etc.

(Sorry, I cant give you any advice on how to make the sound better tongue.gif Have to wait for Andrew I guess xD)


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botoxfox
post Sep 15 2007, 03:17 AM
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I think that was quite good, but I agree with Robin about the guitar sound though smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 15 2007, 03:42 AM
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Hi there, did someone call my name? smile.gif

I think "horrible" is a little strong, I would say "under produced" and this comes down to tips and tricks that you learn with practice. Here are a few pointers:
  • I didn't hear any Bass in the song - addition of bass drives a song and adds low down clout
  • The guitar sounds were dry and fighting each other a little. Addition of reverb puts them in a convincing "space" together, selective EQing will make them fight for the same frequency ranges less
  • Compression is your friend!
  • Stereo panning to move different instruments to different places on the sound stage, again so that they don;t fight each other
Ok, they were high level with no real explanations, if you want to dive in to any of these in more detail, just ask!

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Sep 15 2007, 03:42 AM


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Jeff
post Sep 15 2007, 03:43 AM
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I like the feel of this song. I think the intro riff is cool because it catches my attention. I also like the riff at 18 seconds and I think it would be cool to repeat that riff a second time right there. You played it again at 42 seconds and I noticed it immediately. That tells me that I must have liked it and that may be a building block for a chorus or something to focus on as you refine it. I can see this becoming an excellent song! smile.gif

Right now since you are pulling together ideas, the tone is not as important as the composition of the song but admintingly, I need better speakers to listen to it so I can't really give much of an opinion about that. But I'll listen when I get home.

I really do like this and in fact, this might be a good collaboration song! (if you ever wanted wink.gif ). You are good man, so I really hope you don't feel worthless at the moment! smile.gif wink.gif
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exorcyze
post Sep 15 2007, 04:14 AM
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Thank you for the feedback all. I'm glad it actually does have a good feel. The artist in me is usually only happy with something I create for a day or two, heh.

Plus with the creative malaise I've had lately it was nice to feel a little refreshed, even though it was thrown together fairly quickly over a pretty simple progression. In my fairly new explorations into the territory of playing lead I've tried to keep a focus on melodic in there - to create items that can be memorable and fun to play.

If there is interest I would be willing to try and throw it into powertab and get it uploaded. I would also be willing to post the backing tracks for people to play with ( once I get the tone sorted out to my liking ). Though for collab stuff I had really wanted to do something with odd time signatures. =)

Andrew :
Thanks for the feedback. I'll get on the other computer and try to grab some screenshots of my eq settings and give you some specifics. I'm using reaper and have all the standard plugins that come with it along with things like WaveLab EQ and iZotope Ozone, so any and all specifics to get more pleasing sound I would be all about. I'll grab that stuff and post it.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 15 2007, 04:16 AM
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QUOTE (exorcyze @ Sep 14 2007, 11:14 PM) *
Andrew :
Thanks for the feedback. I'll get on the other computer and try to grab some screenshots of my eq settings and give you some specifics. I'm using reaper and have all the standard plugins that come with it along with things like WaveLab EQ and iZotope Ozone, so any and all specifics to get more pleasing sound I would be all about. I'll grab that stuff and post it.


Cool smile.gif


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exorcyze
post Sep 15 2007, 05:02 AM
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Ok, here's what I used for that recording :

I have a Schecter C-1 Elite running through a Line 6 Uber Metal into an M-Audio FastTrack USB interface. I'm using reaper to record.

Here's my main interface for reaper on this:
Attached Image

Here's the EQ settings I used for the lead:
Attached Image

Here's the delay settings for the lead:
Attached Image

Here's the EQ settings for the rhythm:
Attached Image

Here's the reverb added to the master track:
Attached Image

Overall, I tried to keep the EQ and mix very simple at this point, just cutting out extreme highs and lows, with a couple minor boost / cut areas. I knew that I wanted to work on the tone, and I figured starting from a relatively neutral state would help.

This post has been edited by exorcyze: Sep 15 2007, 05:04 AM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 15 2007, 06:07 AM
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Looks good ... probably the biggest thnig you can do at his point is pan the lead part of the way to the left and the rythm part of the way to the right, that should help a lot.

Regardsing the EQ, the approach is not really to EQ the individual tracks so they sound good, but to EQ them in the context of the mix. For instance, in the rythm you might cut the highs a little, and on the leads cut the lows so they aren't fighting for the same frequerncy range ion the mix.

Finally, looks like you don;t have a reverb impulse loaded, are you sure you are getting any reverb at all? (I can;t remember if reapers reverb does algorythmic as well or not)

OH, one final tip, fpr the delay, try a ping pong dleay - that will help with the stereo width as well.


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exorcyze
post Sep 15 2007, 06:44 AM
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Ok, thanks for the tips.

When you say "cut the highs a bit", is there any good starting points ( ie a frequency range and a db amount to cut / boost by ) that you would recommend as a rule of thumb?

In one of the previous collaborations, you said the item I submitted had a lot of high-end noise ( if I remember correctly ). Did you hear that in this? Do you recall what you cut and by how much to bring out the richer tone?

Is there any general starting points for baseline EQ on different types of music that you could suggest ( or a resource ) ? For instance, if I'm going for more of a bluesy sound then I want to cut / boost at these bands, versus if I'm going for a crunchier metal sound I could do this?

Is that ok for the amount of delay I put on the lead? I was trying to not saturate it too much, just give it a little bit more spaciousness to sit in the mix without being too overt.

Finally, any other suggestions on tone, technique or melody? =)

Thanks much for the feedback and help. I'll also try applying one of the iZotope presets on the master fx chain for some widening and post that in the original thread to see if that helps.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 15 2007, 07:17 AM
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QUOTE (exorcyze @ Sep 15 2007, 01:44 AM) *
Ok, thanks for the tips.

When you say "cut the highs a bit", is there any good starting points ( ie a frequency range and a db amount to cut / boost by ) that you would recommend as a rule of thumb?


Its very hard to generalize of course, and I would say talking about frequencies is not the best way to go, ditto for graphical eq tools - they are great but they put the emphasis more on what you see and less on what you hear. In general, less is more - try to cut frequencies rather than boost others and do it a litle at a time and listen to the result. Each mix is completely different though.

QUOTE
In one of the previous collaborations, you said the item I submitted had a lot of high-end noise ( if I remember correctly ). Did you hear that in this? Do you recall what you cut and by how much to bring out the richer tone?


Yes, I put in a big cut around 3500 hz if I recall, but remember its always in the context of the mix. Your guitar this time had a similar sound but in this more edgy song I think it works a lot better - in the collab I was going for almost a bluesy sound so I wanted to get rid of the high end fizziness - in this case it helps the lead cut through.

The tool you are using by the way is more of a problem fixer than an EQer although it will do both - in EQ you usually gently dip certain broad ranges of tone rather than put in drastic cuts - ReEQ would be abetter tool to use here as it is a little more gentle.

QUOTE
Is there any general starting points for baseline EQ on different types of music that you could suggest ( or a resource ) ? For instance, if I'm going for more of a bluesy sound then I want to cut / boost at these bands, versus if I'm going for a crunchier metal sound I could do this?


In recording terms, its always better to get the basic sound right rather than fix it in the mix. If you don't like the sound you have coming out of your amp and pod, fix it, don't try to change it in the mix! Getting a bluesy sound in recording is the same as getting a bluesy sound in real life - get yourself a Les Paul and a great tube amp, or maybe a boss BD2 etc, you can;t take a shred sound and make it sound bluesy in the mix.

Really the first and only rule is to go for as near to perfection as you can at every stage - perfect instrument perfectly tuned, perfect effects settings. Perfect performance. Perfect recording levels. Perfect mixing - if you have been perfect up until now, it should almost mix itself smile.gif

QUOTE
Is that ok for the amount of delay I put on the lead? I was trying to not saturate it too much, just give it a little bit more spaciousness to sit in the mix without being too overt.


Let your ears be the judge - its your track not mine smile.gif I would say the delay you had in certainly wasn't overwhelming, but ask yourself this - if its that subtle is it adding anything ? Try it both ways several times to make sure it is adding something or do without it if it isn't. For adding spaciousness do think about trying the stereo ping pong delay though.

QUOTE
Finally, any other suggestions on tone, technique or melody? =)

Thanks much for the feedback and help. I'll also try applying one of the iZotope presets on the master fx chain for some widening and post that in the original thread to see if that helps.


Yeah, don't use Ozone yet - get the track so that you are happy with it, add Ozone as a last step if at all.

The panning helps matters but you still need to differentiate the guitars some more, maybe make the rythm a bit less intense, and have it working in rythm with the bass (whoch isn;t there yet smile.gif).

That's what comes to mind at the moment.


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Smurkas
post Sep 15 2007, 02:14 PM
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You could also record a new take of the rhythm track that matches the first one and then pan your two rhythm track left and right. This is almost standard nowadays in heavy rock and metal. That will also free up room in the middle for your lead guitar. Also, the stereo widening won't actually work if there isn't much difference between the left and right channel to begin with. For me it's worked best when I have to rhythm guitars recorded and panned.

Btw I saw that the master channel was clipping on one of the pictures, have you fixed this?



/Marcus
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