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> Creating And Exporting A Song With Ableton Live
coffeeman
post Sep 19 2007, 01:27 PM
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Dear Friends,

I use line 6 tone port to record my stuff , i have created a few things but I don't know how first to create a song with the things I have recorded and with the loops I created , and second I want to export the files to mp3 or somtehing like that....any help woulld be apreciated , thanks

Feel free to answer in spanish ( gracias Gabriel o Juan)

Coffeeman.

This post has been edited by coffeeman: Sep 19 2007, 01:29 PM


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Hungus
post Sep 19 2007, 01:51 PM
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You could try Goldwave or Reaper maybe?


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 19 2007, 07:15 PM
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In Live! if you already have the audio samples/midi files it's a case of pointing Live! to the file and then you can drag and drop the file on to the appropriate audio or midi channel in the mixer. After you drag and drop them on to Live! it automatically creates a clip for the sample/file that allows you to manipulate it however you want.

If you're not sure where the files are on your pc/mac then you can search using Live! via the icons on the left of the screen. The files icons are the ones that look like a folder with a number from 1-4 (in Live!6).

Once you're happy with your recording then you export or render the file either as a wav or aiff file - not mp3.

If you want mp3 then you may have to use another program to convert the file. Live! doesn't render to mp3 as it is set to encode to wav or aiff. Mp3 compresses and is a loss audio format whilst wav/aiff are 'loss less' (ie mp3 losses some of the frequencies in the recording during compression and I think is a 16 bit format - wav is usually 24 bit). I imagine that Ableton decide against mp3 rendering because of this; maybe for them there is little point in high quality recording only to then lose some of the signal on rendering. If you render to a hard format - a cd for example - then a wav file IS better then an mp3.

TBH the only two plus points of mp3 to me are: they have a smaller file size then the wav file because they are a compressed loss format; most domestic audio users like mp3 files as they download them off the net for their mp3 players. Neither of these plusses however mean much to me: I have a lot of hard disc space (about a terrabyte) so I'm happy to keep wav files. For my 'mp3' equivalent player (40gig) I'd much rather leave it as a wav or if I have to render then I use ogg-vorbis/flac loss less compression.

If you want to convert wav to mp3 then have a look here for some free rippers. If I have to mp3 something from wav I usually import into Audacity and use the lame converters.

Cheers,
Tony


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 19 2007, 11:42 PM
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Also, if you use VBR (variable bit rate) you get a larger file but a huge increase in quality - it becomes subjectively difficult to tell the difference between a VBR encoded mp3 and a wav file.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 20 2007, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Sep 19 2007, 04:42 PM) *
Also, if you use VBR (variable bit rate) you get a larger file but a huge increase in quality - it becomes subjectively difficult to tell the difference between a VBR encoded mp3 and a wav file.


Sounds interesting Andrew. I'll look into it - I've only to date seen the comparative test data spectrums for mp3 vs wav where is clearly a lot of loss.

Cheers,
Tony

ps Wonder if Live! might include it in V7. Could be nice if the quality is there smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 20 2007, 07:03 AM
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Been looking into VBR - thanks Andrew - it's the standard (which I didn't but should have known about - guess I just lose sight of all the acronyms smile.gif ) for ogg-vorbis/lame and most other lossless mp3 encoding etc. The tech info ultimately looks good - and for me I use lossless VBR (but didn't realise it laugh.gif ) if i need to encode to mp3.

I did however also do a couple of very subjective test (I didn't run any spectrum analysis though as the audio pc for this isn't quite set up for that - oddly that's on my wife's laptop dry.gif ) using mp3, vbr mp3 and the original wav files. Now I could easily notice the compression with standard mp3 against the wav file. Lossless/VBR was significantly better but subjectively on a blind test - 5 of us (me, wife, daughter and two Spanish neighbours) found - the wav file was more detailed and open (ok I think that's what my neighbours' said/meant - they definitely though preferred wav). So for me rendering to mp3 - vbr/lossless is the best option by far: of mp3 the lame encoding was particularly good. Rendering to ANY format and I'll stick with wav - at least for now.

Playback by the way was through a Meridian CD and dac via Cyrus pre and two monobloc power amps plus separate power supply bi-amped into Sonus Faber speakers. All files burnt to cd on MPEG1 - Layer 3 format or re-rendered off a pulse 1 1bit res cd.

Cheers,
Tony

ps should say that the test tracks include music with quiet initial passages - good for VBR and ones with loud, fast complex openings supposedly not good for VBR. I did also reverse render and re-render off a cd back to wav and then reduction - same subjective result. My 'average' vbr was 192kbs and 24 bit resolution - so more or less wav standard.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 20 2007, 05:26 PM
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Fascinating!

I haven't had access to a decent HiFi setup since I started messing with MP3s and I was always going to do the A/B testing like you said when I got around to it (my wife made me pack up my Mission setup when she moved in, she seemed to object to them blocking out the light from the windows for some reason ...). I was expecting somewhat similar results to yours though. All my digital music is MP3 VBR, when I get a new high end setup I will base it on digital audio and probably move to flacc for my files, and play them through something like a Slimp3 Squeezebox.

BTW, I am not aware of any mp3 format that is lossless, VBR or otherwise - was that a typo, or do you know something I don't ? (Likely!)


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 20 2007, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Sep 20 2007, 10:26 AM) *
Fascinating!

I haven't had access to a decent HiFi setup since I started messing with MP3s and I was always going to do the A/B testing like you said when I got around to it (my wife made me pack up my Mission setup when she moved in, she seemed to object to them blocking out the light from the windows for some reason ...). I was expecting somewhat similar results to yours though. All my digital music is MP3 VBR, when I get a new high end setup I will base it on digital audio and probably move to flacc for my files, and play them through something like a Slimp3 Squeezebox.

BTW, I am not aware of any mp3 format that is lossless, VBR or otherwise - was that a typo, or do you know something I don't ? (Likely!)


I'm lucky Andrew that my wife knows the difference between a good and an average hifi - she'd rather have a big set of mismatched audiophile hi fi units then a dinky mass consumer one that looks good but sounds rubbish smile.gif . She does refer to the turntable - a Michell Engineering Orbe as 'darth vader' (looks like this one except ours is all black and clear acrylic - no gold- tt that is - not darth vader):




Having said that she also much prefers the music to TV and so she objects continually to our 'wide screen' (which nowadays is actually more small screen) - a 28'' Sony. So I guess my plans for a 42 inch plasma to watch rugby on will come to nothing sad.gif .

BTW I was using lossless mp3 asa phrase only because that seems to be the way lame, ogg and flac bill themselves. But yes no mp3 format is truely loss less. September issue of SoS has an interesting article the maths/physics behind digital recording - author is making the claim that digital is wonderful, gets a bad press because it's misunderstood and people keep repeating half-truths. Sadly to me at least he doesn't prove his case.

Cheers,
Tony


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 21 2007, 01:19 AM
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Cool turntable smile.gif You are a an official hard core hifi nut it would seem! I have dipped in and out of that insanity, in fact its about time I got myself a decent hifi again .... I may well make a tube hifi amp, and I have seen articles on the web for DIY electrostatic speakers - not sure of they would be any good though.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 21 2007, 05:50 AM
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Afraid so Andrew - though I think at times my wife would shorten it to nut. But we listen to much more music in our house then watch tv so a decent stereo is a definite must for us. Just gets a bit scary when we have to insure the thing blink.gif . (Ever try telling an insurance company that the speaker cable is worth more then the average home hi fi laugh.gif ?)
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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 21 2007, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 21 2007, 12:50 AM) *
(Ever try telling an insurance company that the speaker cable is worth more then the average home hi fi laugh.gif ?)


smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

I remember paying about 200 quid for interconnects between my CD player and amp - they didn't even come in pairs, and I spent a lot on Flatline Twin for my speakers too, but on the other hand I really could tell the difference when I A/Bed the interconnects smile.gif

So these days, are tube hifi amps still in vogue? Are they regarded as desirable?


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 21 2007, 07:50 PM
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Last I saw Andrew - though I've rather lost track since moving to Spain - Tube amps and also Tube stages for CD players are very much the biz. Much the same as the arguments for guitar amps, tube is seen as being much more musical. From what I remember of them you'd easily be spending upwards of 1500 UK Sterling for the most basic cheapest tube amp/CD convertor stage and if you're in to Conrad Johnson/Krell type stuff easily 20,000UK (plus about another 20,000 strengthening the floor boards to take the weight of the monoblocs laugh.gif ).

Cheers,
Tony


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

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We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 21 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 21 2007, 02:50 PM) *
Last I saw Andrew - though I've rather lost track since moving to Spain - Tube amps and also Tube stages for CD players are very much the biz. Much the same as the arguments for guitar amps, tube is seen as being much more musical. From what I remember of them you'd easily be spending upwards of 1500 UK Sterling for the most basic cheapest tube amp/CD convertor stage and if you're in to Conrad Johnson/Krell type stuff easily 20,000UK (plus about another 20,000 strengthening the floor boards to take the weight of the monoblocs laugh.gif ).

Cheers,
Tony



Excellent! I'll have to see about building a pair of monoblocks and a preamp then smile.gif


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Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
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