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eddiecat
post Sep 25 2007, 02:59 PM
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Good morning, Muris.
Could you please explain theoretically what the dots on the fretboard represent?
I'm sure that you don't even think of them,
but could you try to explain to me how they've been useful
to you during your guitar studies?
Besides root notes, how can they be used as "signposts"?
The 12th fret is already very useful to me,
since it indicates where the fretboard "repeats" itself,
but what about the others?
In the thread "Tricks to memorize the fretboard", Tony told me that they can be considered
as the minor 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th of the scales going down the fretboard (E, A, D, G, B, I suppose).
Do you mind telling us your experience with dots?
I thought this topic deserved a little discussion.
Hope you had a great B-Day...
Thank you! Eddie
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 25 2007, 08:29 PM
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No prob Eddie.

Lets try this way,imagine guitar without dots??
Hell on the earth. smile.gif
Dots usually mark notes without sharp or flat,with few exceptions like notes F#,G#,C# and Bb.
Yes,we can use them to find root note or any other degree of the scale but only after we memorize
notes on every single string.
From 12th fret is all the same,so we need to nail first 12 frets.
Like everything else,this requires lots of practice.
As I did practice a lot and nailed those frets,I don't need to look at the fretboard if I'm playing
all over it without jumping,like connecting boxes etc.
But if I wanna do JUMP,per example from 2nd fret to somewhere around 15th or 17th,
without dots I'll probably miss first note. smile.gif
Practicing scales and watching the notes you're playing on specific dots will help you
to memorize fretboard and places where dots are.
After that you just KNOW that G# on B string is on 9th fret,where the dot is.
How to find A on same string?Easy,just one fret above.
Or how to find note F on A string?Easy,cause E and F# are on the 7th and 9th frets where dots are,
so just hit in between and you have F note.
Hope I cleared it a bit. smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 25 2007, 08:32 PM
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I would say there is no deep and inner meaning to the dots for me, but they need to be there just as Muris says. If I play a riff I am subconsciously always orienting myself to the dots in the different positions I play so I can jump around and come back to where I was before.


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 25 2007, 08:35 PM
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Andrew has the point,dots mostly help to orientate ourself.
And how could we be orientated if we haven't memorized fretboard still? smile.gif


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Victafor
post Sep 25 2007, 08:38 PM
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since i am a beginner, sometimes the dots help me to find my place if i mess up. and like i think muris was getting at, they help me to see which notes are where because i am more of a visual learner
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 25 2007, 08:43 PM
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Of course,dots are for visual aspect only. smile.gif
As I'm wearing glasses,almost no use for me. cool.gif laugh.gif


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eddiecat
post Sep 25 2007, 08:43 PM
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Great, Muris! Thanks a lot.
Very helpful. Since I'm still working hard on muscle memory
trying to learn all the boxes, I'm not going to worry yet
about all the notes in the different scales.
For the time being I'll just work on root note patterns
and I'll try to memorize only the notes on the dots! (for now) smile.gif
That is surely one thing I'll add to my daily routine.
Feels like if I learn those at least,
it will be like looking at a puzzle with some pieces missing,
but enough pieces to guess what the picture is.
Thank you once again.
Eddie

This post has been edited by eddiecat: Sep 25 2007, 08:45 PM
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 25 2007, 08:48 PM
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You're welcome Eddie,have a great time while learning it! smile.gif


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eddiecat
post Sep 25 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (muris @ Sep 25 2007, 09:48 PM) *
You're welcome Eddie,have a great time while learning it! smile.gif


I will!
Oddly enough I love practicing scales and boxes!!!
I know they're not very popular, but I love them... wink.gif
Hopefully in about, let's say, 6-8 months
I'll be able to start learning the major modes...
Take care, Muris.

P.S.: I'll get back to you for suggestions
sooner than you think! biggrin.gif
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 25 2007, 08:59 PM
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You see,practicing scales and boxes is almost most important thing.
Cause everything else you play,tune,solo etc is based on some scale and box/boxes.
So you're doing right job,popular or not! smile.gif


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Robin
post Sep 25 2007, 09:15 PM
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I dont think about them much, but they are helpful becuase I instantly know where 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th etc. fret are.

This post has been edited by Robin: Sep 25 2007, 09:17 PM


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Vinod Saranga
post Sep 25 2007, 09:26 PM
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Yes they are visual aids.May i add something on this topic?
Do you ever think why guitar strings are EBGDAE unless in special cases?
Because it is the most efficient way.
any other string instrument doesn't have a logic than guitar.
In my opinion It is the most versatile instrument in music world.It can be used in any genre of music.Metal,rock ,Blues Classical.Flamenco etc..
The unique feature of the guitar is that there is an odd in B string.It should have been C note.
Dots come to play with note recognision.Any note in the guitar has its unique relationship with dots which is identified by our unconcious mind.
smile.gif

This post has been edited by Vinod: Sep 30 2007, 12:57 AM


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Random Guy
post Oct 27 2007, 07:32 AM
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Hey guys, I'm a guitar beginner but played piano when I was little so I know some musical theory. My question is that in the lesson on power chords you guys have the pattern for the E minor scale. My problem is that this scale on the guitar according to the dots does not sound like a minor scale does on the piano. Specifically, the first note on the third string from the top (I think it's the B string, 12th fret) sounds a semitone off. I can think of three reasons why this is the case, please tell me which one is right and why. Choices are:

a) There is a special reason particular to the guitar
cool.gif I'm crazy
c) The dots are wrong

Hoping for an answer soon,

Random_guy
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Muris Varajic
post Oct 27 2007, 07:56 AM
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Dots are showing us some common frets like 3rd,5th,7th 12th etc.
And notes of scale aren't always on doted fret,depends of scale and string you use as well.
Give me some example and will try to explain it better. smile.gif


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Random Guy
post Oct 27 2007, 08:10 AM
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QUOTE (muris @ Oct 27 2007, 12:56 AM) *
Dots are showing us some common frets like 3rd,5th,7th 12th etc.
And notes of scale aren't always on doted fret,depends of scale and string you use as well.
Give me some example and will try to explain it better. smile.gif


Well the E minor scale (E aeolian) looks like this in the diagram:

e| 12 14 15
b| 12 13 15
g| 11 12 14
d| 12 14
a| 12 14 15
e| 12 14 15

if I play those fret starting at the bottom E on the 12th fret, it sounds right until I get to the twelfth fret on the D string. To sound like a minor scale on the piano I would play 13 14 on the d string. Why is it different here. In the diagram (see https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/beginner-...ower-chords.htm for what I am looking at, it's the last diagram on the page before the forum posts) the dots are supposed to correspond to the notes on the scale, yet the scale does not sound like a regular minor scale to my ear. The same problem repeats as you continue to ascend but I can't figure out how to make it sound "right". Why does this sound different than when I would play a minor scale on the piano?

Oh, and it also looks like we are talking about different dots. I mean the ones in diagrams, not the ones on the fretboard. I get that those are just for reference. Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong thread. I would have just posted right on the lesson thread if I could have figured out how! Thanks for your help in advance!

This post has been edited by Random Guy: Oct 27 2007, 08:13 AM
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barabbas
post Oct 27 2007, 08:12 AM
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OK. Can anyone suggest a method of memorizing the fretboard?
I've been playing by ear for 40 years, but I know the notes on a scale and the differential of steps (whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half, etc.) But there's got to be some "tricks" to memorizing the notes by position...


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leedbreak
post Oct 27 2007, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE (Random Guy @ Oct 27 2007, 02:10 AM) *
Well the E minor scale (E aeolian) looks like this in the diagram:

e| 12 14 15
b| 12 13 15
g| 11 12 14
d| 12 14
a| 12 14 15
e| 12 14 15

if I play those fret starting at the bottom E on the 12th fret, it sounds right until I get to the twelfth fret on the D string. To sound like a minor scale on the piano I would play 13 14 on the d string. Why is it different here. In the diagram (see https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/beginner-...ower-chords.htm for what I am looking at, it's the last diagram on the page before the forum posts) the dots are supposed to correspond to the notes on the scale, yet the scale does not sound like a regular minor scale to my ear. The same problem repeats as you continue to ascend but I can't figure out how to make it sound "right". Why does this sound different than when I would play a minor scale on the piano?

Oh, and it also looks like we are talking about different dots. I mean the ones in diagrams, not the ones on the fretboard. I get that those are just for reference. Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong thread. I would have just posted right on the lesson thread if I could have figured out how! Thanks for your help in advance!


Make sure your guitar is correctly tuned? Off a tad and it will sound way off. Someone may have said that above



also intonation could toss the sound out a bit too

This post has been edited by leedbreak: Oct 27 2007, 08:27 AM


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 27 2007, 08:25 AM
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I have a trouble to see relation between piano and frets on guitar smile.gif

Any how,the diagram you provided shows right frets for E minor scale,no doubt about it.

If your guitar is tunes right than 12 fret on D string is note D and 14 fret is note E.
13 and 14 will give us D# and E which is ok for E harmonic minor scale.


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leedbreak
post Oct 27 2007, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (barabbas @ Oct 27 2007, 02:12 AM) *
OK. Can anyone suggest a method of memorizing the fretboard?
I've been playing by ear for 40 years, but I know the notes on a scale and the differential of steps (whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half, etc.) But there's got to be some "tricks" to memorizing the notes by position...


I still use this as a quick way to remember while jamming


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-----------10-------
---------------------
-------7------------
--------------------
---5----------------

------------5--------
------------------
---------------------
-------7------------
--------------------
---5----------------


Helps once you know the notes for the 6th string then you know a lot more

This post has been edited by leedbreak: Oct 27 2007, 08:30 AM


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PlayAllDay
post Oct 27 2007, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (Random Guy @ Oct 27 2007, 03:10 PM) *
Well the E minor scale (E aeolian) looks like this in the diagram:

e| 12 14 15
b| 12 13 15
g| 11 12 14
d| 12 14
a| 12 14 15
e| 12 14 15

if I play those fret starting at the bottom E on the 12th fret, it sounds right until I get to the twelfth fret on the D string. To sound like a minor scale on the piano I would play 13 14 on the d string. Why is it different here. In the diagram (see https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/beginner-...ower-chords.htm for what I am looking at, it's the last diagram on the page before the forum posts) the dots are supposed to correspond to the notes on the scale, yet the scale does not sound like a regular minor scale to my ear. The same problem repeats as you continue to ascend but I can't figure out how to make it sound "right". Why does this sound different than when I would play a minor scale on the piano?

Oh, and it also looks like we are talking about different dots. I mean the ones in diagrams, not the ones on the fretboard. I get that those are just for reference. Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong thread. I would have just posted right on the lesson thread if I could have figured out how! Thanks for your help in advance!


E Aeolian is also referred to as the Natural Minor scale. It has exactly the same key signature as its relative major.
On piano students are first taught the Harmonic minor scale, which has a raised leading note(7th note of the scale) as you will encounter that scale in the piano repertoire more often.

So the scale you learn on the piano and the E Aeolian are not quite the same though they both fall into the category of 'minor' scales. You play a D in the Aeolian and D# in the Harmonic.
So if you exchange the 12 fret for the 13th fret you should hear the sound you are looking for and you will know another scale too! ( oh and swap 15 for 16 on the Bstring- or shift that note entirely to 11fret on the E string)
HTH smile.gif


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