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> Question On Chords Modes Lesson
Dashooter
post Sep 27 2007, 02:24 PM
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hi, I saw your lesson about applying chords to modes, but I was still wondering how it works.

Ok, I understood the basic principle. Ionian chords would be major, minor, minor. Dorian would be minor, minor, major, etc.

But what I dont understand is how does this apply to creating chord progressions for certain modes? When do you ever hear a chord progression for A Ionian as A major, B Minor, C#minor? Or a progression for A Dorian as A minor, C minor, D major? Do you get what I'm saying?
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David Wallimann
post Oct 11 2007, 10:53 AM
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Yeah, I know what you mean.
The key is to keep the same bass all the time...


QUOTE (Dashooter @ Sep 27 2007, 09:24 AM) *
hi, I saw your lesson about applying chords to modes, but I was still wondering how it works.

Ok, I understood the basic principle. Ionian chords would be major, minor, minor. Dorian would be minor, minor, major, etc.

But what I dont understand is how does this apply to creating chord progressions for certain modes? When do you ever hear a chord progression for A Ionian as A major, B Minor, C#minor? Or a progression for A Dorian as A minor, C minor, D major? Do you get what I'm saying?


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 11 2007, 07:26 PM
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The other thing to realize is that the list of chords are chords you can choose from - you don't have to use them all, and you don't have to use them in any particular order, although careful choice of the chords can really cement a modal chord progression.

I have a theory lesson on modal chord sequences (based on David's lessons) here.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 11 2007, 08:04 PM
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+1 what Andrew says. It's the same as scales and modes where you wouldn't necessarily every note in C ionian in order when you solo/improvise over C.

I had a nice and interesting conversation with Muris the other day. I perhaps see music a bit different to many - I don't tend to think in terms of scales and modes but in terms of chordal relations and progression. Probably because I'm self-taught theory and practice and I studied chords and harmony before, and for longer, then scales and modes. Maybe as a result of this I wouldn't think in terms of a chord progression for A ionian but would see it more in terms of what the progression is and how the chords relate. From that I then think about how to play through the changes. I don't think, 'Oh it's A major so I'll play B dorian' but more sort of, 'The A maj7 passes to fsharp min7 to edim (or whatever). So what's the underlying progression?'

The point I'm trying to make is that I think that you solo/improvise through a chord progression rather then solo over it. The chords aren't there to support your solo your solo is there to work with the chords.

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Tony


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 11 2007, 08:22 PM
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Couldn't agree more - the scale and chords are so interwoven that its hard to separate them. For example, in an C lydian progression that goes C, D, I tend to think in terms of the notes of the chord. C,E,G and D,F#,A. When playing over the C you could play Ionian, but when you move to the D, well to keep in sympathy with that chord you almost automatically have to include the F#, which makes the scale Lydian anyway (C,D,E,F#,G,A,B,C), so it all fits together in a unified whole smile.gif


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OneWingdAngel
post Oct 11 2007, 08:41 PM
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ok i have played tabs for 2 years and was starved for the theory you are dishing out i am enjoying it all and i thank you. but for the past 2 nights at work i have racked my brain on this.

does the key of a piece equal the root of the main scale used in the piece ?

i know this may not be the topic for this thread if so im sry but my brain now hurts i was ready to start my minor pentatonic scale practice when i noticed that if i use say a scale of B major (B,C#,D#,E,F#,G#,A#,cool.gif
2212221 the root is B. the key would have 5 sharps in it using the circle of fifths i can see A# is 7th or the last sharp 1 dagree up is B. KEY OF B EQUALS the B scale meaning that the scale of B major is the heart of our piece
here is the confusion
say i now use the same B scale only in minor pentatonic. (B,D,E,F#,A,cool.gif 32232
now this key according to what i have learned should only have 1 sharp F# 1 dagree up is G !!!!!
WHAT key of G? shouldn't in still be KEY OF B I used a B scale?
how do i know that im supposed to use a B minor pentatonic scale for the most part if the key is G?
back to my question shouldnt the key equal my root note B?
please put my mind at ease thanks
WING.
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OneWingdAngel
post Oct 11 2007, 09:30 PM
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im now very sry this thread isnt even Andrews i think i need a catscan haha that was for andrew he just happens to be here. once again truly sry David
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David Wallimann
post Oct 11 2007, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE (OneWingdAngel @ Oct 11 2007, 04:30 PM) *
im now very sry this thread isnt even Andrews i think i need a catscan haha that was for andrew he just happens to be here. once again truly sry David


No reason to be sorry!
Andrew is great with theory and I'm glad he answered!
He's got some very insightful things to say about theory.
On the subject of chords, here's another way to see it.
The rule to create a modal chord progression is that if you write down on a piece of paper all the notes you are using on the chord progression, you should have all the important notes of the mode you are playing in.
If some notes are missin, then you can pick, or even create a new mode of your own.
Basicaly, the more notes you have in the chords, the less choice of notes you'll have in your improv.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 12 2007, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (Wallimann @ Oct 11 2007, 06:38 PM) *
No reason to be sorry!
Andrew is great with theory and I'm glad he answered!
He's got some very insightful things to say about theory.


Thanks Dave, I learned a lot from your Modal studies for sure smile.gif

OneWingedAngel - I answered your question over on my board, hope it helps.


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