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> 7 Basic Scales
eddiecat
post Sep 30 2007, 03:52 PM
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Hi Muris! Eddie here.
As you know I'm currently practicing your AP lesson which comes smoothly in 8th notes at 80 BPM,
and in 16th notes if I only play the scales up and down in all 5 boxes (without sequences).
The backing track is great because you can practice both major and minor over it and feel the "mood" change,
but here's my problem: everithing is ok as long as I link the boxes starting from the first and from the E strings,
but if I choose, for example, to start from the C on the 13th fret B string, it takes me a while to figure out
to which box shape it belongs to, so I have to go back to the first box... mad.gif
Do you have any suggestions on how to practice scales now that I have the shapes well in mind?
The explantion and the question are vague, I know, but I hope you understood my point...
Thank you, Eddie

This post has been edited by Muris: Mar 26 2008, 12:53 PM
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 30 2007, 07:35 PM
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Hi Eddie and thanks for asking,I understand you more than well.
One of my students in private had same problem as well.
That usually comes if you're practicing scales/boxes mainly using muscles
and without thinking too much.
Good way is to sing every note your play,to feel where are semi and whole tones in each scale.
Also,important thing is to figure out scale on each string separately.
Per example,play C scale every string starting with open string and up the fretboard.
Locate important notes,like root C,third E and 5th G.
After a while you'll memorize it with finger moves and sound. smile.gif
It takes lot of practice so be patience...


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eddiecat
post Sep 30 2007, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE (muris @ Sep 30 2007, 08:35 PM) *
That usually comes if you're practicing scales/boxes mainly using muscles
and without thinking too much.
It takes lot of practice so be patience...


Praticing a lot doesn't scare me at all... The thinking does!!!
However, thank you a lot for your, as usual, very helpful advices!
Eddie
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 30 2007, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (eddiecat @ Sep 30 2007, 08:46 PM) *
Praticing a lot doesn't scare me at all... The thinking does!!!
However, thank you a lot for your, as usual, very helpful advices!
Eddie


You're welcome Eddie!! smile.gif
Glad you don't mind practicing a lot cause that's all that counts. cool.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 30 2007, 08:20 PM
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+1 for all that Muris said above. A couple of additional things that work for me (though that may just be me) are:

I also play scales as 3 and 4 note per string - and mix these up during a scale. This forces me to stop playing in a box and also I find 4 note per string really helps with stretches.

Away from the guitar try and visualise the fretboard and the scale pattern superimposed on it.

Perhaps more advanced now (but maybe it's never too soon to start unsure.gif ): Complicated one this (and it really does show how poor I am at knowing my scales well) play one scale ascending and when you get to the top note play a different scale descending where the root of the descending scale is the last note of the ascending pattern.

Once you can do this try mixing them together so that you play one note of say Cmajor on 6th string ascending, followed by 1 note of say F major 1st string descending, followed by next of C ascending and next of F descending etc etc. (ie 1st C, 1st F, 2nd C, 2nd F, 3rd C, 3rd F and so on). This involves btw string skipping and awkward movements but, for me, it really makes me concentrate on what the scales are rather than just repeating a pattern:

------13----------12---------10-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------13---------11----------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------etc----------------------------------------
--------------------------------------8----------10--------------------------------------------------------------
--8---------10---------12------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Once you get this down (and this is the bit that I come adrift on) sequence them so its 1Ca, 2Fd, 3Ca, 4Fd, 5Ca, 6Fd (where number equals the note in the scale ie 1= 1st/root, 2=2nd, 3=3rd etc; C/F= the respective scale; a=ascending, F=descending). Again this nvolves string skipping and some pretty awkward fingerings/movements.

You get a pattern something like this (for C ascending and F descending):

1---2----3---- 4-----5-------6---------7-----8-----9----10----11------12------13-----14----15---16---17
(Odd numbers are C ascending sequenced, even F descending sequenced)

-----12---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------12-
-----------------13-------------------------------------------------------------------10-----------13-------------
-------------------------------10-----------------------------------10------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------9---12-----12----8--------------------------------------------------
------------------------10---------------------------------------------------10---------------------------------
-8---------12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------12-----------8------



I really have to think about the respective scales to do this and so can't play it fast at all. I've seen David Torn do this without really seeming to think about what he's doing- he really does know the fretboard and the scales and modes so well that he just plays. There is btw a specific term for this (forgotten what it is at the moment though rolleyes.gif)

Cheers,
Tony


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eddiecat
post Sep 30 2007, 08:29 PM
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Wow, I still think you should be among the instructors! (C'mon, put that smile on your face!)
As usual, thank you very much, Tony!
Looks a little too advanced, but I will give it a try...
Cheers, Eddie smile.gif
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 30 2007, 08:29 PM
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Brilliant Tony!! smile.gif

Combining scales/modes in ascending and descending
really helps to memorize and understand everything you play.
This skipping might be too much for Eddie at the moment but worth try it for sure!!


Thanks again Tony! smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 30 2007, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (eddiecat @ Sep 30 2007, 01:29 PM) *
Wow, I still think you should be among the instructors! (C'mon, put that smile on your face!)
As usual, thank you very much, Tony!
Looks a little too advanced, but I will give it a try...
Cheers, Eddie smile.gif


I'm advancing (most of the time - good days 2 steps forward and one back, not so good days, 2 back and 1 forward Eddie laugh.gif ) rather an advanced guitar player and I struggle with the double sequenced stuff.

But I think Muris is spot on - double scale sequenced runs really force me to think and to try to understand the respective scales. Damned hard though and the string skipping doesn't help - it is really awkward blink.gif.

But I try (or as my wife tells me I'm very trying rolleyes.gif .)

Cheers,
Tony


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eddiecat
post Sep 30 2007, 10:22 PM
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Ok, after lots of thinking, I believe I understood Tony's concept of ascending/descending.
I believe that knowing one's limits is a good thing... unfortunately I have to admit that I'm not up to it. mad.gif
Hope I'll catch up soon, but for now I'll stick to basics.
At least I gave it a try... sad.gif
But I really have to thank you both for your helpfulness
Cheers, Eddie.

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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 30 2007, 11:29 PM
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Don't worry Eddie -

I can't do it well either. Only person I've ever seen do it was Dave Torn and he is a phenomenal guitar player. (I'd imagine though that Muris can do it though wink.gif ). As with everything it takes practice and I think the main thing is that you are practicing and also willing to give things a try smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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eddiecat
post Oct 1 2007, 01:30 AM
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As with everything it takes practice and I think the main thing is that you are practicing and also willing to give things a try smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony
[/quote]

I am practicing a lot...
Wallimann already agreed to do a few lessons on the 4 basic scales,
but it goes without saying, Muris, that lessons on these scales
by you would be more than appreciated! rolleyes.gif
I know I'm a buggar always asking for these basic things,
I know you might find them boring,
but it seems to me that they are VERY important...
Back to scales (doing my best to think)... Eddie


P.S.: BTW, I went back to my C on 13th fret B string, and the semitone between 3rd minor and 3rd major
made me figure out much faster where I was! Thanx!!!

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Muris Varajic
post Oct 1 2007, 02:33 AM
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No worries,it's not boring at all smile.gif
I'll make more of these basic lessons as soon as possible. wink.gif


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eddiecat
post Oct 1 2007, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (muris @ Oct 1 2007, 03:33 AM) *
No worries,it's not boring at all smile.gif
I'll make more of these basic lessons as soon as possible. wink.gif


Hi Muris, you were right.
I think I can say that I know the 5 boxes by heart as well as your 3 nps two boxes,
I could easily draw them on paper without having a guitar in my hands,
but the tip you gave me on playing single string scales is taking me beyond.
It really makes me think about single notes, tones and semi tones.
Thanks, Maestro

Eddie

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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 1 2007, 08:14 PM
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Good one Eddie,

I also find 3 and 4 nps a good way of not playing in boxes.

Sounds like the woodshedding for you is really paying off smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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eddiecat
post Oct 1 2007, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 1 2007, 09:14 PM) *
Good one Eddie,

I also find 3 and 4 nps a good way of not playing in boxes.

Sounds like the woodshedding for you is really paying off smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


Hey Tony!
Well, I guess it really is paying off!
If I think where I was at 2 months ago, when I started... I'm far from being somewhere now,
but it feels great to just sit down, grab the guitar and feel that I'm improving somehow...
I'm also resisting the temptation of diving into other video lessons,
because I'm the kind of person who loaths doing things he doesn't understand!
Copying out words is not as rewarding as learning the alphabet to write down your own.
Does it make sense?
Besides, I'm not good enough.
I will start doing 3 and 4 nps as soon as I've learnt my scales well... wink.gif
Cheers,
Eddie


EDIT: I just saw Muris' lesson on legato for beginners, beautiful!!!
I'm definetly going to use it for my scale studies! Great Muris!
Cheers

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Muris Varajic
post Oct 1 2007, 10:32 PM
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Glad you like it Eddie,thanks! smile.gif

There are movements into more than just one box and more then 3nps.
Explore it and try to combine with the things you do already. wink.gif


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eddiecat
post Oct 2 2007, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE (muris @ Oct 1 2007, 11:32 PM) *
Glad you like it Eddie,thanks! smile.gif

There are movements into more than just one box and more then 3nps.
Explore it and try to combine with the things you do already. wink.gif


Hi Muris!
I decided I'll start "exploring" your legato lesson on monday, maybe.
Till then I want to stick to your AP lesson, boxes and scales on one string, as you advised me to do.
But in the meantime could you please tell me what the advantage of 3 or 4 nps scales is?
Are they more useful to fretboard comprehension?
And is it something you would recommend me at this stage? (please say no biggrin.gif )
Thank you, Eddie
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Muris Varajic
post Oct 2 2007, 12:38 AM
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Everything we practice helps us to figure out fretboard more and more.
3nps are often shapes cause we don't have to move around a lot,everything stays in one position,box.
3,4 or more nps are NOT scales,that's just the way how WE play specific scale. smile.gif
Scale(diatonic) contains 7 notes and it's up to us how we gonna do it,on one string or on 6 of them. smile.gif
What to recommend?
Tell me I'm repeating myself,practice. smile.gif

If you want I'll make a lesson that involves scale on each string separately. wink.gif


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eddiecat
post Oct 2 2007, 01:02 AM
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[quote name='muris' post='68708' date='Oct 2 2007, 01:38 AM']
Everything we practice helps us to figure out fretboard more and more.
3nps are often shapes cause we don't have to move around a lot,everything stays in one position,box.
3,4 or more nps are NOT scales,that's just the way how WE play specific scale. smile.gif



Ooops, sorry, I meant 3 or 4 nps scale shapes. Forgot to put "shape" mad.gif
So with these we get more result with less effort=we don't have to move too much around.
Muris, any lesson which you think might be helpful is more than appreciated!
Hope all the shredders out there won't be mad at me ohmy.gif

Bye, Eddie

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Muris Varajic
post Oct 2 2007, 02:39 AM
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No worries Eddie,there are many fast stuff lessons already at GMC
so I guess few easier topics will not be the problem. smile.gif


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