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> Effects, Who Needs Effects?, What and how do Effects Affect my sound? Do I need them?
RobM
post Oct 2 2007, 02:32 PM
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OK so the topic is effects, all kinds of them, Wah, Distortion, Delay, Crunch, Echo etc. etc. What kinds of effects do I need and what should I buy to get them?

These days I can buy an amp that not only has modeling, but also has effects built in to them.(Line 6 Spider III, Roland Cube Series, Vox Valvetronix etc..).

Then you have the Line 6 Pod Series(are they worth it, should you buy one just for recording or is it more for practicing and gigging?) Which one to buy, Pocket Pod, Pod Xt, guitarport, or better to wait and pre order the new X3 series?) Do you use a Pod with a modeling and effects amp, in place of one or both?

Should I just go for a modeling Amp and use Pedals? What kind of Pedals should I use? Wah and Distortion, Delay and Distortion? Which Ones?

Looking for help from the experienced here. As usual thank you very much for your input.


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Hungus
post Oct 2 2007, 02:53 PM
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Well that all depends on what you want to play and how you want your guitar to sound....


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shredmandan
post Oct 2 2007, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (RobM @ Oct 2 2007, 09:32 AM) *
OK so the topic is effects, all kinds of them, Wah, Distortion, Delay, Crunch, Echo etc. etc. What kinds of effects do I need and what should I buy to get them?

These days I can buy an amp that not only has modeling, but also has effects built in to them.(Line 6 Spider III, Roland Cube Series, Vox Valvetronix etc..).

Then you have the Line 6 Pod Series(are they worth it, should you buy one just for recording or is it more for practicing and gigging?) Which one to buy, Pocket Pod, Pod Xt, guitarport, or better to wait and pre order the new X3 series?) Do you use a Pod with a modeling and effects amp, in place of one or both?

Should I just go for a modeling Amp and use Pedals? What kind of Pedals should I use? Wah and Distortion, Delay and Distortion? Which Ones?

Looking for help from the experienced here. As usual thank you very much for your input.



As always it's huge to know what kind of music you play to know what effects you should use or need.My opinion seperate stompbox's or effect pedals are better than the processed multi effects tone all built into one.Its cost alot more though to buy each effect seperate in its own pedal and you can save a bunch buying in a processor or built into the amp.Just do the reviews for the amps if you go that way and the pedals if you decide to go that route.Check out harmony central user reviews on gear.

As for your question ==What kind of Pedals should I use? Wah and Distortion, Delay and Distortion? Which Ones?
Why not just get them all ???Just dont get exactly what you mean by that cause you obviously want to have distortion unless you just never play anything but clean.The delay is great for any player and style so that would be a must if money was not an issue.The Wah also comes down to what you play.Kinda cool for some lead guitar and some rtyhem,but i dont use one .Had the crybaby and was just boring to me.A delay pedal and a real good high gain distortion pedal is all i really need.I like to even use delay at like min settings just to kinda fatten up my tones,once i started using it i can never go back. smile.gif


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Francis Viviers
post Oct 2 2007, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (RobM @ Oct 2 2007, 03:32 PM) *
OK so the topic is effects, all kinds of them, Wah, Distortion, Delay, Crunch, Echo etc. etc. What kinds of effects do I need and what should I buy to get them?

These days I can buy an amp that not only has modeling, but also has effects built in to them.(Line 6 Spider III, Roland Cube Series, Vox Valvetronix etc..).

Then you have the Line 6 Pod Series(are they worth it, should you buy one just for recording or is it more for practicing and gigging?) Which one to buy, Pocket Pod, Pod Xt, guitarport, or better to wait and pre order the new X3 series?) Do you use a Pod with a modeling and effects amp, in place of one or both?

Should I just go for a modeling Amp and use Pedals? What kind of Pedals should I use? Wah and Distortion, Delay and Distortion? Which Ones?

Looking for help from the experienced here. As usual thank you very much for your input.


This is a common problem that people have. Dont get to much distortion pedals. Maybe get :

* one nice overdrive pedal. Like a ibanez tubescreamer or the like

* nice fat distortion pedal. Boss Metalzone / Rocktron Rampage etc.

* Delay pedal. This is something you will never hate. Sounds awesome in solos. Can make a simple rhythm riff sound extraordinary. Get something like a Boss DD-6 or if you can the Line6 Delay modeller which has about 15 different delay effects built in.

* Wah is nice, but its a bit technical to use nicely. Especially for a beginner and its more for solo guitar.

* Chorus / Flange / Phaser are all cool effects but you wont use them as much as the rest.

* Volume pedal. Even tho this isnt really an effect. It can be used to create some super sounding effects. Like volume echos. Removing gain from rhythm sections and then boosting them in solos etc. Get a Boss Volume pedal if you do. Earnie balls are the best but the "Pully" system strings break allot making it unreliable.

Hope this helps.
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mattacuk
post Oct 2 2007, 05:03 PM
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Also in addition to the great advice given above. Its also worth mentioning that whilst modelling amps with tons of digital effects are great for beginners, i feel they generally are just a beginner type of amp.

I bought the Roland Cube 60W amp when i started out, its a really great buy. Tons of amp models and digital effects - it really got me started. But as time went bye, i really began to appreciate the fantastic tones pro players produced from there kit/playing.

I couldnt get my Modelling/digital effects amp to sound THAT great, and i found it frustrating!! I went out and bought a bunch of expensive boss pedals in the hope of finding a sweeter tone - didnt happen! I found running nice pedals over a digital amp less than great.

If you are still with me biggrin.gif The point i am trying to make is, Digital modelling amps are great value for money and a great starting point.

But the general idea with pedals is that you typically use them through a Tube/Valve amp on a clean channell to get the various tones/effects you couldnt otherwise have!! This for me is the best way to get a sweet tone and overall creative control.


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 2 2007, 05:13 PM
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Good question and I'm not that smart to answer in total. smile.gif
It's really individual matter but some basic EFXs every guitarist needs are drive(not sure is it efx at all),
delay,chorus,wah etc.
From pedal,modeling amp,processor?
It depends of lot of things like what do you want from your sound,how much money do you have etc. smile.gif


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MickeM
post Oct 2 2007, 05:30 PM
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I want the distortion to come from the amp. Having said that I confess that I use two distortion pedals (not at the same time) for my Peavey Classic combo, it can't handle the heavier stuff on its own so that's why.

My ultimate setup:
Hughes and Kettner Switchblade amp head (EL 34's) with a Wah and Overdrive. Nothing more.

Not using the OD really but when entering a solo you have to boost. An OD or EQ is good for that. What I can do is I can keep two banks on the Switchblade with the same sound stored, only one of them EQ boosted for solo maybe with a raised volume or extra gain.
So I kick the MIDI board but if it wasn't there I'd use an OD or EQ (I do with the Peavey)

Now... this is cheating since Switchblade has delay on board already. It also got Tremolo, Chorus and Flanger. wink.gif

So let's instead pretend I have a Marshall tube head (with EL 34's) which has teriffic distortion in it's own.
I'd keep an OD or EQ (an OD is nicer also to use with the clean channel for a sound that breaks up), a Delay and a Wah. That's it.


So if I was to recommend something that's pretty much what I'd say. Get a tube amp with two good channels, clean and distortion and also a reverb. Get an overdrive pedal, I've got Digitech's Bad monkey it's great for what I use it for, to break up the clean channel and boost solos - there are meaner OD pedals in th emarket if that's what you want. It's not as precise as an EQ for modeling the signal but good enough, I'm just too lazy to connect both pedals. A descent Wah and a Delay pedal. I've seen delay pedals with delay up to 5 seconds, you won't need that.
You may need an attenuator aswell for playing at home cool.gif

Hope that helps.


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Francis Viviers
post Oct 2 2007, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Oct 2 2007, 06:30 PM) *
I want the distortion to come from the amp. Having said that I confess that I use two distortion pedals (not at the same time) for my Peavey Classic combo, it can't handle the heavier stuff on its own so that's why.

My ultimate setup:
Hughes and Kettner Switchblade amp head (EL 34's) with a Wah and Overdrive. Nothing more.

Not using the OD really but when entering a solo you have to boost. An OD or EQ is good for that. What I can do is I can keep two banks on the Switchblade with the same sound stored, only one of them EQ boosted for solo maybe with a raised volume or extra gain.
So I kick the MIDI board but if it wasn't there I'd use an OD or EQ (I do with the Peavey)

Now... this is cheating since Switchblade has delay on board already. It also got Tremolo, Chorus and Flanger. wink.gif

So let's instead pretend I have a Marshall tube head (with EL 34's) which has teriffic distortion in it's own.
I'd keep an OD or EQ (an OD is nicer also to use with the clean channel for a sound that breaks up), a Delay and a Wah. That's it.
So if I was to recommend something that's pretty much what I'd say. Get a tube amp with two good channels, clean and distortion and also a reverb. Get an overdrive pedal, I've got Digitech's Bad monkey it's great for what I use it for, to break up the clean channel and boost solos - there are meaner OD pedals in th emarket if that's what you want. It's not as precise as an EQ for modeling the signal but good enough, I'm just too lazy to connect both pedals. A descent Wah and a Delay pedal. I've seen delay pedals with delay up to 5 seconds, you won't need that.
You may need an attenuator aswell for playing at home cool.gif

Hope that helps.


I agree. Pure amp distortion is always best. The only thing with it is you need to know exactly what sound you want. When your a beginner don't go for such an amp as your taste might change as your playing evolves. This costs you a ton in the end if your gonna replace the amp. I learned that the hard way. Through my line6 spider II and AVT50 sad.gif

It must be said that the hughes and kettner switchbladeis a all valve amp that is just midi programmable ( you get some laney's etc that has the same ) + Couple of built in effects. These effects are very basic. Thats why i will never pawn off my delay modeler etc and i might get the line6 effects modeler. And run it through an amp with alright clean and super distortion.

But yeah. It depends on which sound you want in the end. Just keep in mind that if you buy a digital amp and get pedals for it and later get valve amp. The sound will totally sound different. Something that sounded nice on your digital amp might sound crappy on a valve amp. And vice versa. So when you try out stuff, just try them on both amp types.

And just go to a shop and tell them you wanna test all the pedals. If they want your business they wont mind and if they do just go elsewhere smile.gif
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Pavel
post Oct 2 2007, 07:09 PM
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For last 5 years i only used distortion+delay and i never felt the lack of some extra FXs. Muris is right - it's totally individual thing.


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RobM
post Oct 2 2007, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (RobM @ Oct 2 2007, 09:32 AM) *
OK so the topic is effects, all kinds of them, Wah, Distortion, Delay, Crunch, Echo etc. etc. What kinds of effects do I need and what should I buy to get them?

These days I can buy an amp that not only has modeling, but also has effects built in to them.(Line 6 Spider III, Roland Cube Series, Vox Valvetronix etc..).

Then you have the Line 6 Pod Series(are they worth it, should you buy one just for recording or is it more for practicing and gigging?) Which one to buy, Pocket Pod, Pod Xt, guitarport, or better to wait and pre order the new X3 series?) Do you use a Pod with a modeling and effects amp, in place of one or both?

Should I just go for a modeling Amp and use Pedals? What kind of Pedals should I use? Wah and Distortion, Delay and Distortion? Which Ones?

Looking for help from the experienced here. As usual thank you very much for your input.


Ok I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I've been playing for almost 6 months now, I've out grown my current amp and guitar need to buy a new one. That being said I want the new amp to last me for a year or two but preferrably much longer(I hate spending money on things I already have), I don't want to have to upgrade it and spend more money in that time frame.

I play anything from classice rock (Eagles, Bad Company, Kiss - Mettalica, AC/DC etc). I want an amp that has options to play this and sound good, I want to spend $500 (but prefer to spend much less) on the amp and not more than a couple hundred dollars for effects.

Is there one kind of pedal that has a lot if not all of the effects built in(and sounds good) at a reasonable price? I prefer to not spend more than $1500 for the new guitar, amp and effects. (I'm going to buy either an Ibanez 2550e or a gibson LP Studio) but the guitar price will definately be $1000 or under.

I can get a discount at two local music stores because I take lessons, I'm hoping to maximize my discount by buying everything at the same place. Any good way to get them to give me a BIGGER discount or get some things thrown in? I'm not a very good shopper.


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Francis Viviers
post Oct 3 2007, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (RobM @ Oct 2 2007, 10:38 PM) *
Ok I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I've been playing for almost 6 months now, I've out grown my current amp and guitar need to buy a new one. That being said I want the new amp to last me for a year or two but preferrably much longer(I hate spending money on things I already have), I don't want to have to upgrade it and spend more money in that time frame.

I play anything from classice rock (Eagles, Bad Company, Kiss - Mettalica, AC/DC etc). I want an amp that has options to play this and sound good, I want to spend $500 (but prefer to spend much less) on the amp and not more than a couple hundred dollars for effects.

Is there one kind of pedal that has a lot if not all of the effects built in(and sounds good) at a reasonable price? I prefer to not spend more than $1500 for the new guitar, amp and effects. (I'm going to buy either an Ibanez 2550e or a gibson LP Studio) but the guitar price will definately be $1000 or under.

I can get a discount at two local music stores because I take lessons, I'm hoping to maximize my discount by buying everything at the same place. Any good way to get them to give me a BIGGER discount or get some things thrown in? I'm not a very good shopper.


In my opinion. Just get an amp that has a nice clean channel and sounds nice with a distortion pedal in it. I good option is something like a fender blues junion. It has the fender clean ( Best there is ). Its all valve so you will get a warm sound and being only 20 watts you can crank the hell out of it when you play so that it just sounds awesome.

Then get some effects, maybe start on a nice distortion pedal like a tonebone ( Will give you sounds from AC/DC to Kiss to Relatively heavy metal ) and then a delay pedal and later on a wah pedal.

This is what i would do i could go back to when i started out upgrading to better things.
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MickeM
post Oct 3 2007, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (RobM @ Oct 2 2007, 10:38 PM) *
Ok I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I've been playing for almost 6 months now, I've out grown my current amp and guitar need to buy a new one. That being said I want the new amp to last me for a year or two but preferrably much longer(I hate spending money on things I already have), I don't want to have to upgrade it and spend more money in that time frame.

I play anything from classice rock (Eagles, Bad Company, Kiss - Mettalica, AC/DC etc). I want an amp that has options to play this and sound good, I want to spend $500 (but prefer to spend much less) on the amp and not more than a couple hundred dollars for effects.

Is there one kind of pedal that has a lot if not all of the effects built in(and sounds good) at a reasonable price? I prefer to not spend more than $1500 for the new guitar, amp and effects. (I'm going to buy either an Ibanez 2550e or a gibson LP Studio) but the guitar price will definately be $1000 or under.

I can get a discount at two local music stores because I take lessons, I'm hoping to maximize my discount by buying everything at the same place. Any good way to get them to give me a BIGGER discount or get some things thrown in? I'm not a very good shopper.

I think you're going the wrong way about this. $1500 will give you a great guitar while $500 will give you a guitar that won't match your guitar for the versatility in music you're looking for. Unless you go for a modeling amp of some kind, I dont know a lot about their kind.
About the guitar and the classic rock you're playing, do you need a Floyd Rose? None that you mentioned use it, maybe Metallica I'm not sure.
I know people will trash me for this laugh.gif but no matter how much I love a Floyd Rose it's a fact that it sucks tone. It has less contact with the wood than other kinds of tremolos and the best for achiving sound with wood character and sustain would be a string through body design.

More about the amp and guitar. A great guitar through a bad amp will always sound bad. Hence $1500 through $500 will sound like $500. A lousy guitar through a good amp will sound good, hence $500 through $1500 will sound more like $1400, if you get my point smile.gif
Then a $1500 guitar through a $1500 amp will sound like $3000 cool.gif
And the other way around, a $500 guitar throuhg a $500 amp will sound like $250.
So either way, getting either of them will improve.

So don't run off buying an expensive guitar expecting it to sound it's value through a cheap amp. As an investment for the future when you get the amp to match, it's an idea while still I think you should start with a better amp and later upgrade your guitar to get the most value out of what you spend.

So I won't suggest any good $500 amps, I'll drop a few $1500 models I'm sure would suit your music preferences.

So I'll start with my favourite laugh.gif
Hughes and Kettner Switchblade 50W combo. Clean channel goes from clean to crunch. The Crunch channel goes from crunch to hard rock. The brit hi gain is the best channel on this amp, sounds like a Marshall and manage real metal. I love this channel! For a Mesa substitute there's the Ultra channel, a real fat metal sound. Here's your Metallica and Dream theater sound. Cleans and Crunch for AC/DC and Bad company. Crunch and Brit hi-gain for Kiss. Sounds great also on bedroom levels.

Marshall DSL50 head - Gotta love the sound of a Marshall smile.gif Will manage all your band preferences but with an obvious Marshall signature on the Mesa stuff biggrin.gif

Since you're in the US you could have a look at Genz Benz El Diablo, don't know if it comes as a combo, think a 50W, but you can always get your hands on a good cabinet for not too much money. Avatar speakers f.ex.

Fender twin or 65 Reverb if you want to go clean. The sound from a Fender Strat through a Fender tube amp is classic, unbeatable! But forget about the heavier metal stuff unless you use pedals. As well as Marshall does Marshall best (which doesn't include clean) nobody can best Fender cleans but that's also what a Fender does best. I was shocked the first time I heard the cleans from a Fender in the music store, my friend was testing one, I was used to mu own Marshall cleans and oh boy. I was stunned, for real!
Great reverb too!

Peavey XXX, Peavey JSX - Will serve all your needs. Doesn't Kris use a XXX? Or was it an XXL?

Oh... there's a head from Epiphone. They showed great skills in amp building, there's the SoCal 50 head! 50W switchable to 25W. Great sound for blues and rock, use a pedal for the mesa boogie stuff because this amp doesn't go into that territory.

But if I were you I'd definitly look into the Genz Benz El Diablo, if there's a 50W combo and if it's cheaper than the H&K Switchblade. I know too little about Genz Benz (not a common amp here) but it's a qualified guess it's a great amp.

EDIT:
There's a 60W El Diablo. Check the link. Also video demo
Overview
Clean
Metal
Scooped

Please let me know if you find out what it costs in your store. The demos I think were run with too much gain. mad.gif

EDIT2: Here's a much better demo

This post has been edited by MickeM: Oct 3 2007, 06:13 PM


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Francis Viviers
post Oct 3 2007, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Oct 3 2007, 06:47 PM) *
More about the amp and guitar. A great guitar through a bad amp will always sound bad. Hence $1500 through $500 will sound like $500. A lousy guitar through a good amp will sound good, hence $500 through $1500 will sound more like $1400, if you get my point smile.gif
Then a $1500 guitar through a $1500 amp will sound like $3000 cool.gif
And the other way around, a $500 guitar throuhg a $500 amp will sound like $250.
So either way, getting either of them will improve.

So I'll start with my favourite laugh.gif
Hughes and Kettner Switchblade 50W combo. Clean channel goes from clean to crunch. The Crunch channel goes from crunch to hard rock. The brit hi gain is the best channel on this amp, sounds like a Marshall and manage real metal. I love this channel! For a Mesa substitute there's the Ultra channel, a real fat metal sound. Here's your Metallica and Dream theater sound. Cleans and Crunch for AC/DC and Bad company. Crunch and Brit hi-gain for Kiss. Sounds great also on bedroom levels.


All good points MickeM. Only reason i dont say he should get a Switchblade is because of its price in various places in the world. It costs about $2200 retail here where i live. You can get the price down a tad but its still expensive. The Genz Benz is ALLOT cheaper tho i dont know of any bands that use it.

Floyds are great but i dont like playing certain stuff on my guitar that has one. Hardtail / Stoptail and string through body guitars has way more tone and sustain. Infact most people one this site has more than one guitar. I have 2 way different strats and a Ibanez with floyed. Just dont multiple guitars as waisting money and having two of the same or replacing each other. Multiple guitars are great for changing sound between songs.

This post has been edited by Francis Viviers: Oct 3 2007, 06:06 PM
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MickeM
post Oct 3 2007, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE (Francis Viviers @ Oct 3 2007, 07:04 PM) *
All good points MickeM. Only reason i dont say he should get a Switchblade is because of its price in various places in the world. It costs about $2200 retail here where i live. You can get the price down a tad but its still expensive. The Genz Benz is ALLOT cheaper tho i dont know of any bands that use it.

Floyds are great but i dont like playing certain stuff on my guitar that has one. Hardtail / Stoptail and string through body guitars has way more tone and sustain. Infact most people one this site has more than one guitar. I have 2 way different strats and a Ibanez with floyed. Just dont multiple guitars as waisting money and having two of the same or replacing each other. Multiple guitars are great for changing sound between songs.

If I remember well RobM resides in the US so a Genz Benz would be cheaper that if I were buying one here. And the otherway around with Marshall or Laney which in the US would cost a lot more than in the UK.
I got my Switchblade directly from Germany, possibly overpriced in the US, I don' tknow. As a reference they cost around $1850-1900 in Germany which by the way is a lot cheaper than in Sweden.

I agree, to have a few guitars for diffent things is not only useful, it's also fun smile.gif


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