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> Question About Down Tuning Floating Trems
Goliath
post Oct 10 2007, 08:55 PM
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I'm thinking about upgrading my last guitar for something a little more "metal" and would like something that says a lot visually as well as sounding great. I really like the ESP LTD AL600 (the Alexi Laiho model with the offset V body neck thru 24 fret w/ an FR and EMG h4). I'd like to be able to use dropped tunings (as low as I'd go would be CGCFAD) on it, but have never really taken any of my floating trem guitars out of standard tuning. What all is involved in dropping the tuning? I tried to tune one down once but the trem went WAY down into the body of the guitar so I said F-it and put it back in standard and picked up my schecter. Now I understand the springs in the body would need to be loosened and I'd likely need to rock some .11 gage strings (I believe AL himself uses 13's for that tuning).

I really like this guitar but don't want to spend an hour getting it set up for dropped tunings.

Thoughts?


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 10 2007, 09:15 PM
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If you set it up for dropped tuning, you only have to do it once and leave it like that - any guitar tech could do it, or you could do it yourself, and yes, it would probably take an hour. From that point on though, if you stick to the same strings and tuning you can change a set of strings in 10 minutes when you are used to it.

What you can't do is quickly swap between tunings on a locking tremolo, if you leave it at drop D you are fine, if you want standard, as well on a regular basis you need an extra guitar!

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Oct 10 2007, 09:15 PM


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Pavel
post Oct 10 2007, 09:55 PM
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If you like drop tuning, the only "human" way to do it is have 2 guitars - one for standard and one for dropped tuning as retuning a floating bridge 5 times a day is "inhuman" smile.gif smile.gif


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Scott Gentzen
post Oct 10 2007, 11:18 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Oct 10 2007, 08:55 PM) *
If you like drop tuning, the only "human" way to do it is have 2 guitars - one for standard and one for dropped tuning as retuning a floating bridge 5 times a day is "inhuman" smile.gif smile.gif


Gibson's Powertune:

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Feat...une_%20Gibson_/

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MickeM
post Oct 10 2007, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Oct 10 2007, 09:55 PM) *
as low as I'd go would be CGCFAD
Thoughts?

I don't think a Floyd Rose tremolo is for you or that ESP gutar even.

Maybe you should check out a Baritone guitar instead. Fender has one that I think looks cool, the Jaguar Baritone. Has a longer scale than normal. That way you get something that's comes downtuned to start with instead of having to adjust a guitar to work in a way it wasn't really supposed to.

If you look around you'll find that many brands keep a baritone.


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Goliath
post Oct 11 2007, 08:40 PM
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That guitar is played by Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom and he constantly uses CGCFAD tuning. They had his rig in Guitar World not too terribly long ago (in the last year or so) and it consisted of 3 of the top end ESP signatures w/ .13's and that of course would mean he's got a FR.

I have one guitar w/ a fixed bridge I currently used for dropped tunings and really like the LTD AL600 (thin neck 24 frets, neck thru, EMG h4, FR) and I really like the offset V body. I used to have a Jackson RR3 but it was only 22 frets, and felt whimpy. I'm a big guy and the body was just a wee bit too small, the Alexi-600 has a slightly larger body and hangs more comfortably on me.

Heh then it sounds like I'm not going to be able to rationalize this purchase as a "Upgrading my third guitar" purchase.


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Juan M. Valero
post Oct 11 2007, 09:10 PM
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Now I use a dropped D in my JEM guitar, and I think it's more comfortable tan usual tuning. Now I can use 10-46 insteed of 9-42 (yeah, I like 4frets bends tongue.gif) and I like the sound of that dropped D biggrin.gif

If you need to change your tuning the best is to have 2 guitars, but if you cannot you can use some pedals to change the tuning... for instance I had used whammy pedal, and with my GT8 I can change the original sound from what I want but it doesn't work good enoght.


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RobM
post Oct 11 2007, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Oct 10 2007, 03:55 PM) *
I'm thinking about upgrading my last guitar for something a little more "metal" and would like something that says a lot visually as well as sounding great. I really like the ESP LTD AL600 (the Alexi Laiho model with the offset V body neck thru 24 fret w/ an FR and EMG h4). I'd like to be able to use dropped tunings (as low as I'd go would be CGCFAD) on it, but have never really taken any of my floating trem guitars out of standard tuning. What all is involved in dropping the tuning? I tried to tune one down once but the trem went WAY down into the body of the guitar so I said F-it and put it back in standard and picked up my schecter. Now I understand the springs in the body would need to be loosened and I'd likely need to rock some .11 gage strings (I believe AL himself uses 13's for that tuning).

I really like this guitar but don't want to spend an hour getting it set up for dropped tunings.

Thoughts?


You could always use a D-Tuna:

My Webpage

I'm thinking about getting thisd on my guitar, but I'm still waiting for Ibanez tech Support toi get back to me about a questions I had(been over a week now)


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MickeM
post Oct 11 2007, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Oct 11 2007, 09:40 PM) *
That guitar is played by Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom and he constantly uses CGCFAD tuning. They had his rig in Guitar World not too terribly long ago (in the last year or so) and it consisted of 3 of the top end ESP signatures w/ .13's and that of course would mean he's got a FR.

I have one guitar w/ a fixed bridge I currently used for dropped tunings and really like the LTD AL600 (thin neck 24 frets, neck thru, EMG h4, FR) and I really like the offset V body. I used to have a Jackson RR3 but it was only 22 frets, and felt whimpy. I'm a big guy and the body was just a wee bit too small, the Alexi-600 has a slightly larger body and hangs more comfortably on me.

Heh then it sounds like I'm not going to be able to rationalize this purchase as a "Upgrading my third guitar" purchase.

Of course you can tune any guitar to drop C (if that is what it's called when you downtune all string) but the risc is that it will sound like crap. Like strings being too loose or too thick and it won't just work.
What you are looking for is something inbetween a guitar and a bass. If you wanted a bass, would you get a guitar and put thicker strings on it? No, you would get a bass.
What differs a bass from a guitar then? A longer scale! Just pick a random one and say there's a 30" scale on a bass. On your guitar something around 25".
So to achive what you're looking for there's a guitar called Baritone that has a scale inbetween a bass and a guitar, around 27", but it can differ between breands and models of course.
Just because Alex Bodom guy use a 25" scale with a FR and dropped C doesn't mean it's the best thing to do, I'm quite sure he got his share of problems with that setup though he'd never say so... he ordered the guitar from ESP that way after all tongue.gif

If you just love the look of the guitar and and just love Alex Bodom guy, by all means get the guitar and take the risc of suffering from trying to get a 25" scaled guitar with FR sound good dropped C. Serious adjustments are needed but you already know that from your RR3 etc. No matter what you do it will never be as good as a baritone.
If you love Alex bodom guy and want to sound just great when playing dropped C I seriously think you should look at a baritone model instead. Get the tool that's right for the job. *nods*
...and you have to get rid of the HZ pu. If Alexi Bodom guy really playing with a passive EMG HZ when he could get anything he wants for that guitar? huh.gif

Don't get a donkey to race with horses. cool.gif

This post has been edited by MickeM: Oct 11 2007, 10:09 PM


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Goliath
post Oct 13 2007, 03:06 AM
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He might just be in drop D tuning then using pro-tools to get the extra step down, I don't know. My understanding was using the fatter strings was to increase the string tension so it played better. On the Schecter it's a 25.5" scale and I have 10's on it and play in CGCFAD (drop C for the sake of argument) and it doesn't play as well as when I had .11's on it (which might be the sweet spot for me in alternate tunings), but it still doesn't sound bad. He used to use the Alexi-600 as his mainstay until he started selling alot of guitars now he has a really high end one that's only available in japan that goes for around $3k on ebay (only buy it now prices I've seen).

You can read about Alexi's set up here, and I was wrong, he only uses 10's.

[url=http://www.guitar-stuff.net/2006/10/21/guitar-gear-alexi-laiho-of-children-of-bodom-guitar-amp-setup/]

Drop D tuned down a whole step. This is actually a pretty standard tuning for a lot of metal really. As for switching out the H4, eh maybe later, I'd have to give it a shot first.


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MickeM
post Oct 13 2007, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Oct 13 2007, 04:06 AM) *
He might just be in drop D tuning then using pro-tools to get the extra step down, I don't know. My understanding was using the fatter strings was to increase the string tension so it played better. On the Schecter it's a 25.5" scale and I have 10's on it and play in CGCFAD (drop C for the sake of argument) and it doesn't play as well as when I had .11's on it (which might be the sweet spot for me in alternate tunings), but it still doesn't sound bad. He used to use the Alexi-600 as his mainstay until he started selling alot of guitars now he has a really high end one that's only available in japan that goes for around $3k on ebay (only buy it now prices I've seen).

You can read about Alexi's set up here, and I was wrong, he only uses 10's.

[url=http://www.guitar-stuff.net/2006/10/21/guitar-gear-alexi-laiho-of-children-of-bodom-guitar-amp-setup/]

Drop D tuned down a whole step. This is actually a pretty standard tuning for a lot of metal really. As for switching out the H4, eh maybe later, I'd have to give it a shot first.

Yeah, drop D is only the thick E string. That's why the term "drop C" is confusing because it's refered to as downtuning all the strings. I just have to accept that's the way it is biggrin.gif

Like you say, thicker strings will help the situation. You say "it doesn't sound bad" but the real question is - it doesn't sound bad, compared to what? Sounds better than .10 strings but does it sound as good as a baritone would? (assuming they have the same pu's, wood etc). In such a comparance I leave my full guarantes that the baritone will sound better biggrin.gif

But I think the main thing is, if it sounds good to you, that's enough. You can always please everyone (read me) wink.gif


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ClifordACDC
post Oct 13 2007, 07:48 AM
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actualy alexi uses 11-50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj4NUmUrym4

and these are the tunings he uses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexi_Laiho#Tunings

This post has been edited by ClifordACDC: Oct 13 2007, 07:52 AM


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Kevin98497
post Oct 15 2007, 06:08 AM
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get the D tuna or sommit
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ClifordACDC
post Oct 15 2007, 06:22 AM
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the d tuna just drops the e string down to d and im assuming he wants to do more than that. the only way to use multiple tunings and not waste time is to have more than one guitar.


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