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> Scales And Shredding, Lost in the scale maze
jammer91
post Oct 17 2007, 01:00 AM
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Ive been playing guitar for 2 years and i barely know any scales (only 2 boxes of the pentatonic scale in the key of A).

The main reason i want to learn scales is to be able to shred fast and solo like this kid here....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsPddA6VJi4

Now im not really sure how to use scales, practice and play em.

Have no idea about the scale rules (like if we have to always stick to a key in a song, when can we switch modes etc)

Please help me (by posting links to lessons and explaining this complex stuff in a 2+2 format). I mainly want to be able to shred fast using scales.

Thanks


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 17 2007, 01:10 AM
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To answer some of the theory questions, you could start here, then check out my various lessons on individual scales, the index is here.


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steve25
post Oct 17 2007, 01:12 AM
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I haven't mastered scales yet but really want to get there, however i will tell you what i know.

So you know 2 boxes in the pentatonic A? There are 5 to learn. I can give you a resource for scales if you like but anyway, each of those boxes will have at least 1 root note, most have 2 or 3. A root note is the starting note that defines what key you are in. No let's take the A minor pent box that starts on the 5th fret E. That fret is an A note therefore if you were to start your scale on that note you would be playing in the key of A. If you started on the 8th fret E, that wouldn't be in the key of A minor anymore, even though that note is still a part of the A minor scale. Instead that would be in the key of C, so you would have to play your C scales instead. But at the moment you don't know any so don't worry just yet. To be able to play in a key up and down the fretboard you have to 'link' your 5 boxes together. See Kris' lesson on this which is here at GMC.

Now about different keys. I found understanding this part helps if you are comfortable with power chords and stuff. You know that 5th fret E is A, well if you move it up 1 fret onto the 6th you have A# don't you? So if you played the exact same scale box on the 6th fret you would be playing in the key of A#. Move it 2 places down from the 6th and you're now playing in G#. Make sense? But of course there are 5 boxes and remember there are different root notes, so you're not limited to always having to start in the same spot every single time. Think of the boxes as shapes as well all of them follow on from each other. Hope this helped a bit
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jammer91
post Oct 17 2007, 01:17 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Oct 17 2007, 04:10 AM) *
To answer some of the theory questions, you could start here, then check out my various lessons on individual scales, the index is here.


Thanks Andrew, but i still have a question.

Lets say i want to use the licks in this lesson to improvise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yZA4CkEbjY

1-I pick any scale in any key and choose any mode
2-Then i just place the licks in any frets in that scale/mode

Am i right till here?

Now heres the part which i dont get. Each note in the lick are intervals apart (example one or two frets). Now if i move the lick up and down a scale, sometimes the lick wont fit into a box (if i was to use my first and second finger i might have to use my first and third finger because theres a gap in the scale boxes). How do i adapt to these situations?


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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 10 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Part of the key to success is to never call yourself good...


My RIg:
-Epiphone 1967 FLying V
-Line 6 POD XT live
-VOX Valvetronics AD30VT
-Yamaha EG-112
-Yamaha GA-10
-Some Yamaha acoustic which is a magnet to dust under my bed

End World Hunger
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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 17 2007, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:17 PM) *
Thanks Andrew, but i still have a question.

Lets say i want to use the licks in this lesson to improvise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yZA4CkEbjY

1-I pick any scale in any key and choose any mode
2-Then i just place the licks in any frets in that scale/mode

Am i right till here?


That sounds right ...

QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:17 PM) *
Now heres the part which i dont get. Each note in the lick are intervals apart (example one or two frets). Now if i move the lick up and down a scale, sometimes the lick wont fit into a box (if i was to use my first and second finger i might have to use my first and third finger because theres a gap in the scale boxes). How do i adapt to these situations?


By knowing the scales! If you are fitting licks into a scale and want to move them around, your scale training will allow you to adapt the links without thinking about it because you know the sequence and relation of notes in that particular scale.


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jammer91
post Oct 17 2007, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Oct 17 2007, 04:12 AM) *
I haven't mastered scales yet but really want to get there, however i will tell you what i know.

So you know 2 boxes in the pentatonic A? There are 5 to learn. I can give you a resource for scales if you like but anyway, each of those boxes will have at least 1 root note, most have 2 or 3. A root note is the starting note that defines what key you are in. No let's take the A minor pent box that starts on the 5th fret E. That fret is an A note therefore if you were to start your scale on that note you would be playing in the key of A. If you started on the 8th fret E, that wouldn't be in the key of A minor anymore, even though that note is still a part of the A minor scale. Instead that would be in the key of C, so you would have to play your C scales instead. But at the moment you don't know any so don't worry just yet. To be able to play in a key up and down the fretboard you have to 'link' your 5 boxes together. See Kris' lesson on this which is here at GMC.

Now about different keys. I found understanding this part helps if you are comfortable with power chords and stuff. You know that 5th fret E is A, well if you move it up 1 fret onto the 6th you have A# don't you? So if you played the exact same scale box on the 6th fret you would be playing in the key of A#. Move it 2 places down from the 6th and you're now playing in G#. Make sense? But of course there are 5 boxes and remember there are different root notes, so you're not limited to always having to start in the same spot every single time. Think of the boxes as shapes as well all of them follow on from each other. Hope this helped a bit


Does that mean all the minor pentatonic scale in each segment of the fretboard are of the same shape? (like the the second pentatonic box of A the same as the pentatonic box as C, but only the root notes are located in different parts)?

In your second paragrapgh did you mean to say that if i follow the A minor pentatonic box shape (the one that starts on 5th fret), but start playning on the 8th fret and follow the exact box shape of Am pentatonic i would be playing in the key of the 8th fret minor penta?

To me it does not make much sense (i think i understood it wrong). I though the box shape chages from key to key and different parts of the fret board.

I understood you first paragraph crystal clear and it really helped a lot.

This post has been edited by jammer91: Oct 17 2007, 01:35 AM


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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 10 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Part of the key to success is to never call yourself good...


My RIg:
-Epiphone 1967 FLying V
-Line 6 POD XT live
-VOX Valvetronics AD30VT
-Yamaha EG-112
-Yamaha GA-10
-Some Yamaha acoustic which is a magnet to dust under my bed

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steve25
post Oct 17 2007, 01:47 AM
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Sorry for confusing you on the second paragraph. What i mean is if you take that Am shape that you play on the 5th fret which goes like this:

E---------------------------------5--8--5-------------------------------
B---------------------------5--8----------8--5-------------------------
G---------------------5--7----------------------7--5-------------------
D---------------5--7----------------------------------7--5-------------
A---------5--7----------------------------------------------7--5-------
E---5--8----------------------------------------------------------8--5-

You can move that shape up and down to change key. Now all the boxes are different 'shapes' i'm just using this one as an example as it's the most popular. so if you moved it up to the 8th fret it wouldn't be Am anymore it would be Cm.

Frets on E string and keys
1-F
2-F#
3-G
4-G#
5-A
6-A#
7-B
8-C
9-C#
10-D
11-D#
12-E

Hope that made a bit more sense

This post has been edited by steve25: Oct 17 2007, 01:48 AM
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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 17 2007, 01:48 AM
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QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:32 PM) *
Does that mean all the minor pentatonic scale in each segment of the fretboard are of the same shape? (like the the second pentatonic box of A the same as the pentatonic box as C, but only the root notes are located in different parts)?


Absolutely!

QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:32 PM) *
In your second paragrapgh did you mean to say that if i follow the A minor pentatonic box shape (the one that starts on 5th fret), but start playning on the 8th fret and follow the exact box shape of Am pentatonic i would be playing in the key of the 8th fret minor penta?

To me it does not make much sense (i think i understood it wrong). I though the box shape chages from key to key and different parts of the fret board.

I understood you first paragraph crystal clear and it really helped a lot.


If you play an A minor pentatonic, 1st box, the first note you play is on the E string 5th fret - a note of A, and also your root note.

If you slide everything up 3 frets, your root note will be C (E string 8th fret). If you now play exactly the same shape as you played for A minor pentatonic, but with each note up 3 frets, you will be playing a scale of C minor Pentatonic.


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jammer91
post Oct 17 2007, 01:56 AM
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I sorta get it now.

So does that mean all the pentatonic minor scale boxes look exactly the same shape but with different root notes? (then what about those gaps? Does that mean you cant start on those notes?) ohmy.gif

Thanks a lot for helping steve and Andrew smile.gif . Its as if im pouring my doubts on to your heads and making things complex. Ive never been able to understand this stuff and have learn't a lot now, but still not fully sure.


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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 10 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Part of the key to success is to never call yourself good...


My RIg:
-Epiphone 1967 FLying V
-Line 6 POD XT live
-VOX Valvetronics AD30VT
-Yamaha EG-112
-Yamaha GA-10
-Some Yamaha acoustic which is a magnet to dust under my bed

End World Hunger
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steve25
post Oct 17 2007, 01:59 AM
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No worries i had LOADS of problems with scales and i still kind of have some but i'm just telling you what i've learnt about them smile.gif. Absolutely the 'shapes' never change, it's just where you start them. Now learning scales and improvising is different but you have to start with this to be able to improvise so worry about that later, for now learn your scales. Try and learn you boxes and link them together to complete the set as i call it tongue.gif

This post has been edited by steve25: Oct 17 2007, 01:59 AM
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jammer91
post Oct 17 2007, 02:06 AM
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Now i get it (i think).

I went through andrews minor penta lesson (thx a lot for it man) and this is what i found bout key changing:
The root note A is 2 semitones up from G, so just move each of these patterns up 2 frets and voila, you have patterns for A minor pentatonic.

So you just slide each pattern to start at the key you want. That makes it confusing to visualize...
Is there any site or resouce which has the minor penta moved for all keys?

Thanks a million guys, i feel relieved of my scale burden....

So now i just memorise the scales and play as many licks as i can on them starting from a root note. What happens when i mix licks (do i have to start at the root notes of different positions of the scale boxes?)


--------------------
_____________________________________________________

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 10 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Part of the key to success is to never call yourself good...


My RIg:
-Epiphone 1967 FLying V
-Line 6 POD XT live
-VOX Valvetronics AD30VT
-Yamaha EG-112
-Yamaha GA-10
-Some Yamaha acoustic which is a magnet to dust under my bed

End World Hunger
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Robin
post Oct 17 2007, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 17 2007, 01:06 AM) *
Is there any site or resouce which has the minor penta moved for all keys?

You mean like this? http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_sc...or&get2=Get


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 17 2007, 02:18 AM
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QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 16 2007, 09:06 PM) *
Now i get it (i think).

I went through andrews minor penta lesson (thx a lot for it man) and this is what i found bout key changing:
The root note A is 2 semitones up from G, so just move each of these patterns up 2 frets and voila, you have patterns for A minor pentatonic.

So you just slide each pattern to start at the key you want. That makes it confusing to visualize...
Is there any site or resouce which has the minor penta moved for all keys?

Thanks a million guys, i feel relieved of my scale burden....

So now i just memorise the scales and play as many licks as i can on them starting from a root note. What happens when i mix licks (do i have to start at the root notes of different positions of the scale boxes?)


You don't have to be nailed to the root notes - different licks start on different notes within the scale. In fact, you should be able to play any lick in any box eventually, although due to bending and such, different licks will work better in different boxes.


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Unleash-The-Shre...
post Oct 20 2007, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (jammer91 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:00 PM) *
Ive been playing guitar for 2 years and i barely know any scales (only 2 boxes of the pentatonic scale in the key of A).

The main reason i want to learn scales is to be able to shred fast and solo like this kid here....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsPddA6VJi4

Now im not really sure how to use scales, practice and play em.

Have no idea about the scale rules (like if we have to always stick to a key in a song, when can we switch modes etc)

Please help me (by posting links to lessons and explaining this complex stuff in a 2+2 format). I mainly want to be able to shred fast using scales.

Thanks


The kid in that videos tone is HORRIBLE!
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Muris Varajic
post Oct 20 2007, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE (Unleash-The-Shred @ Oct 20 2007, 01:28 AM) *
The kid in that videos tone is HORRIBLE!



Yep blink.gif


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botoxfox
post Oct 20 2007, 12:39 AM
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QUOTE (Unleash-The-Shred @ Oct 19 2007, 05:28 PM) *
The kid in that videos tone is HORRIBLE!

He's pretty sloppy too.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 20 2007, 12:43 AM
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It would be a nicer lesson if he played the clean, slow versions without mistakes...

Cheers,
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Muris Varajic
post Oct 20 2007, 12:43 AM
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QUOTE (botoxfox @ Oct 20 2007, 01:39 AM) *
He's pretty sloppy too.



He's a shredder laugh.gif


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Paul Coutts
post Oct 20 2007, 07:41 AM
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not even a shredder....sounded terrible, I'm pretty interested in some cool scale runs tho too smile.gif

This post has been edited by Paul Coutts: Oct 20 2007, 07:42 AM


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post Oct 20 2007, 10:01 PM
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Kris has 3 lessons on the pentatonic scale in A, I think. I would start with lesson 1 and then move to 2 and 3. Great lessons that show you the boxes and how they all connect to be able to play all over the neck.

QUOTE (Unleash-The-Shred @ Oct 19 2007, 07:28 PM) *
The kid in that videos tone is HORRIBLE!


His technique sucks too tongue.gif


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