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Robin
post Oct 22 2007, 10:00 PM
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Could someone please explain me how this works? Is mastering the same as mixdown? If not, what software do I need? etc. etc. etc. laugh.gif

I'm clueless, please help, thanks smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 22 2007, 10:32 PM
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The short reply Robin is 'no' smile.gif .

To be more helpful though Mastering is where you take the mix down of one or more tracks that you want to collect together on a cd/lp/whatever and produce a uniform 'sound' to it. Mastering would be where you get all the tracks sounding like they were recorded together. That is that the levels from one track to another are consistent and of comparable sonic quality.

One way to think about Mastering - when I was a kid I used to swop cassette tapes with friends. We add a couple of songs to a tape, pass it on to the next guy and they add a few more songs. Sooner or later the tape comes back to you and you listen to it. More often enough some tracks sounded like they were recorded on 11 in someones bathroom (Echo cho cho cho) and some would be so quiet that you could hardly turn the volume up enough and would be recorded totally dry. There was no consistency.

(BTW ever get annoyed when you watch tv late at night, adverts come on and you drop the volume because the are LOUD. Film starts again and you have to find the remote because you can't hear it. Just no consistency because broadcast TV attenuate the programs in comparison withe ads to make the ad stand out.)

Mastering though isn't just about making sure the levels are consistent. It is also about ensuring a uniform sonic character both with effects and frequencies (and hence eq and compression) and that the Master will sound good on any audio playback device. If the eq between tracks is wildly different it can make two tracks sound like they are played by different groups rather then one. Allan Holdsworth for instance has a very distinctive tone - lots of very smooth mid. Now if the Mastering Engineer on a Holdsworth recording scooped the mid on one track we'd end up with Holdsworth on one track and 'someone else' on the other. Similarly Butch Vig is famous for the raw acoustic edge his recordings have but a Mastering Engineer could make it so different if they added lots of gate and compression to a BV produced track. IN either of these two extreme cases I guess the ME would be sacked pretty quickly btw wink.gif .

Mastering is also about ensuring that the final rendered product makes good use of the dynamic headroom available and so involves issues concerning gain, limiting, dither. Ideally a ME will ensure that a recording is put out to Red book standards in terms of frequency, bit depth and so on.

Pro Mastering and pro MEs use expensive and very specific, specialist hardware. A good Summing Desk is expensive, similarly with speakers for Mastering. Lots of people say they are recording engineers (and most of those aren't) but I've met few who claim to be MEs. Personally I'd say good MEs are worth their weight in gold - it's both a science and an art.

You can certainly master your own recordings and there is now plenty of software available. What the software doesn't however get you is the experience that a good ME has. TBH everything I've ever mixed that has gone to render has been Mastered professionally. I know the basics of Mastering but I don't have the experience to do a really pro job. Home recording I'm happy to master my own stuff but commercial stuff nope.

Cheers,
Tony

ps having said that in the last para I'll still cover Mastering in one of the future recording lessons. Have to really or the series will be incomplete smile.gif .

EDIT - spelling, duh.

This post has been edited by tonymiro: Oct 22 2007, 10:33 PM


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

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We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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exorcyze
post Oct 22 2007, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2007, 04:32 PM) *
I'll still cover Mastering in one of the future recording lessons.


Oh, I'm very glad to hear that Tony - I've found your posts on the recording invaluable and extremely helpful, so I look forward to more of them! And the mastering one should be superb for those of us who just record some riffs or whatnot and want to burn it to listen to and have a semi-consistent feel across it!


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Robin
post Oct 22 2007, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2007, 09:32 PM) *
The short reply Robin is 'no' smile.gif .

To be more helpful though Mastering is where you take the mix down of one or more tracks that you want to collect together on a cd/lp/whatever and produce a uniform 'sound' to it. Mastering would be where you get all the tracks sounding like they were recorded together. That is that the levels from one track to another are consistent and of comparable sonic quality.

One way to think about Mastering - when I was a kid I used to swop cassette tapes with friends. We add a couple of songs to a tape, pass it on to the next guy and they add a few more songs. Sooner or later the tape comes back to you and you listen to it. More often enough some tracks sounded like they were recorded on 11 in someones bathroom (Echo cho cho cho) and some would be so quiet that you could hardly turn the volume up enough and would be recorded totally dry. There was no consistency.

(BTW ever get annoyed when you watch tv late at night, adverts come on and you drop the volume because the are LOUD. Film starts again and you have to find the remote because you can't hear it. Just no consistency because broadcast TV attenuate the programs in comparison withe ads to make the ad stand out.)

Mastering though isn't just about making sure the levels are consistent. It is also about ensuring a uniform sonic character both with effects and frequencies (and hence eq and compression) and that the Master will sound good on any audio playback device. If the eq between tracks is wildly different it can make two tracks sound like they are played by different groups rather then one. Allan Holdsworth for instance has a very distinctive tone - lots of very smooth mid. Now if the Mastering Engineer on a Holdsworth recording scooped the mid on one track we'd end up with Holdsworth on one track and 'someone else' on the other. Similarly Butch Vig is famous for the raw acoustic edge his recordings have but a Mastering Engineer could make it so different if they added lots of gate and compression to a BV produced track. IN either of these two extreme cases I guess the ME would be sacked pretty quickly btw wink.gif .

Mastering is also about ensuring that the final rendered product makes good use of the dynamic headroom available and so involves issues concerning gain, limiting, dither. Ideally a ME will ensure that a recording is put out to Red book standards in terms of frequency, bit depth and so on.

Pro Mastering and pro MEs use expensive and very specific, specialist hardware. A good Summing Desk is expensive, similarly with speakers for Mastering. Lots of people say they are recording engineers (and most of those aren't) but I've met few who claim to be MEs. Personally I'd say good MEs are worth their weight in gold - it's both a science and an art.

You can certainly master your own recordings and there is now plenty of software available. What the software doesn't however get you is the experience that a good ME has. TBH everything I've ever mixed that has gone to render has been Mastered professionally. I know the basics of Mastering but I don't have the experience to do a really pro job. Home recording I'm happy to master my own stuff but commercial stuff nope.

Cheers,
Tony

ps having said that in the last para I'll still cover Mastering in one of the future recording lessons. Have to really or the series will be incomplete smile.gif .

EDIT - spelling, duh.

¨

Thank you so much!! I totally understand now!

What software should I get?

Thanks ALOT!


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 23 2007, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE (Robin @ Oct 22 2007, 06:59 PM) *
Thank you so much!! I totally understand now!

What software should I get?

Thanks ALOT!


iZotope Ozone 3 or PSP vintage warmer would my two top picks for the hobbyist, Tony probably knows more packages than me though.

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Oct 23 2007, 12:12 AM


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 23 2007, 01:06 AM
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Hmmm,yummy,waiting for thread about it from Tony!! smile.gif
Or shall I say lesson!! biggrin.gif


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Robin
post Oct 23 2007, 01:13 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Oct 22 2007, 11:11 PM) *
iZotope Ozone 3 or PSP vintage warmer would my two top picks for the hobbyist, Tony probably knows more packages than me though.

Ok, thanks. Are these programs free?


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 23 2007, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE (Robin @ Oct 22 2007, 08:13 PM) *
Ok, thanks. Are these programs free?


No, they are in the $200 - $300 range from memory, Vintage Warmer is cheaper than Ozone.

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Oct 23 2007, 01:19 AM


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Live long and prosper ...

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Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
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Robin
post Oct 23 2007, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Oct 23 2007, 12:18 AM) *
No, they are in the $200 - $300 range from memory, Vintage Warmer is cheaper than Ozone.

Woah! That will have to wait then smile.gif


Thanks again everyone.


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 23 2007, 01:27 AM
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Robin,you work with Cubase,right?

You could try small mastering test in there as well.
Use plug-ins you have already with Cubase,like EQs,Compressors etc.
Import some tune you like sound of it and one of your tunes/works.
Then add efx's on channel where your tune is and experiment.
Try to reach same level,color etc.
Just a test,you might come up with cool solutions. smile.gif


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Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

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tune is progress,check it out!

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have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
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Robin
post Oct 23 2007, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE (muris @ Oct 23 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Robin,you work with Cubase,right?

You could try small mastering test in there as well.
Use plug-ins you have already with Cubase,like EQs,Compressors etc.
Import some tune you like sound of it and one of your tunes/works.
Then add efx's on channel where your tune is and experiment.
Try to reach same level,color etc.
Just a test,you might come up with cool solutions. smile.gif

I see. Thanks!


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 23 2007, 02:13 AM
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Off the top of my head Robin for software mastering - Harbal - I think it's about 70-80 or so Euros. Might not do as much as Ozone (I don't use Ozone so I'm not sure) but for the money it is a great piece of software.

I'll dig out the proper website address for you asap - bit busy on other things at the mo, sorry.

Cheers,
Tony


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Robin
post Oct 23 2007, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 23 2007, 01:13 AM) *
Off the top of my head Robin for software mastering - Harbal - I think it's about 70-80 or so Euros. Might not do as much as Ozone (I don't use Ozone so I'm not sure) but for the money it is a great piece of software.

I'll dig out the proper website address for you asap - bit busy on other things at the mo, sorry.

Cheers,
Tony

Ok thanks alot!


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 23 2007, 02:24 AM
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Whilst I'm waiting for someone (wife rolleyes.gif ) to work out how to use 'track changes' for chapter corrections!

Link is Har-bal.

Cheers,
Tony

Annoying that it doesn't seem to say how much but I remember it to be about 80 or so Euros - but my memory ain't wonderful. Sorry If I'm wrong on this.


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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exorcyze
post Oct 23 2007, 05:59 AM
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It says : 95.00 USD each

=)

And we had used that as a final step on a CD from my previous band and it worked very nicely IMO.


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Juan M. Valero
post Nov 1 2007, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2007, 10:32 PM) *
The short reply Robin is 'no' smile.gif .

To be more helpful though Mastering is where you take the mix down of one or more tracks that you want to collect together on a cd/lp/whatever and produce a uniform 'sound' to it. Mastering would be where you get all the tracks sounding like they were recorded together. That is that the levels from one track to another are consistent and of comparable sonic quality.

One way to think about Mastering - when I was a kid I used to swop cassette tapes with friends. We add a couple of songs to a tape, pass it on to the next guy and they add a few more songs. Sooner or later the tape comes back to you and you listen to it. More often enough some tracks sounded like they were recorded on 11 in someones bathroom (Echo cho cho cho) and some would be so quiet that you could hardly turn the volume up enough and would be recorded totally dry. There was no consistency.

(BTW ever get annoyed when you watch tv late at night, adverts come on and you drop the volume because the are LOUD. Film starts again and you have to find the remote because you can't hear it. Just no consistency because broadcast TV attenuate the programs in comparison withe ads to make the ad stand out.)

Mastering though isn't just about making sure the levels are consistent. It is also about ensuring a uniform sonic character both with effects and frequencies (and hence eq and compression) and that the Master will sound good on any audio playback device. If the eq between tracks is wildly different it can make two tracks sound like they are played by different groups rather then one. Allan Holdsworth for instance has a very distinctive tone - lots of very smooth mid. Now if the Mastering Engineer on a Holdsworth recording scooped the mid on one track we'd end up with Holdsworth on one track and 'someone else' on the other. Similarly Butch Vig is famous for the raw acoustic edge his recordings have but a Mastering Engineer could make it so different if they added lots of gate and compression to a BV produced track. IN either of these two extreme cases I guess the ME would be sacked pretty quickly btw wink.gif .

Mastering is also about ensuring that the final rendered product makes good use of the dynamic headroom available and so involves issues concerning gain, limiting, dither. Ideally a ME will ensure that a recording is put out to Red book standards in terms of frequency, bit depth and so on.

Pro Mastering and pro MEs use expensive and very specific, specialist hardware. A good Summing Desk is expensive, similarly with speakers for Mastering. Lots of people say they are recording engineers (and most of those aren't) but I've met few who claim to be MEs. Personally I'd say good MEs are worth their weight in gold - it's both a science and an art.

You can certainly master your own recordings and there is now plenty of software available. What the software doesn't however get you is the experience that a good ME has. TBH everything I've ever mixed that has gone to render has been Mastered professionally. I know the basics of Mastering but I don't have the experience to do a really pro job. Home recording I'm happy to master my own stuff but commercial stuff nope.

Cheers,
Tony

ps having said that in the last para I'll still cover Mastering in one of the future recording lessons. Have to really or the series will be incomplete smile.gif .

EDIT - spelling, duh.


Excelent answer, I keep your words in my "mastering book" with your tutorials !! There is lot to learn wink.gif
I wish you hear my next solo album and give me some words about what I'm doing wrong or what shall i do... Do you think you'll have time enough ?? cool.gif
(BTW now I have only one track mixer and mastered but it's the begining tongue.gif)


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Nov 1 2007, 11:10 PM
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I'll do my best Juan as I'm more then happy to help, just depends on how it fits with other projects and stuff.
Wife tends to drop lots of her stuff in my lap that 'needs immediate attention' all the time but if there isn't a huge rush I can usually manage and rarely miss deadlines wink.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Juan M. Valero
post Nov 2 2007, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 1 2007, 11:10 PM) *
I'll do my best Juan as I'm more then happy to help, just depends on how it fits with other projects and stuff.
Wife tends to drop lots of her stuff in my lap that 'needs immediate attention' all the time but if there isn't a huge rush I can usually manage and rarely miss deadlines wink.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


Yeah, that's greatm thanks Tony wink.gif


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WTN
post Nov 10 2007, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2007, 07:13 PM) *
Off the top of my head Robin for software mastering - Harbal - I think it's about 70-80 or so Euros. Might not do as much as Ozone (I don't use Ozone so I'm not sure) but for the money it is a great piece of software.

I'll dig out the proper website address for you asap - bit busy on other things at the mo, sorry.

Cheers,
Tony



There you go - HARBAL - the sleeper software - amazing - I used it on my first CD since I had to record/mix/master at home due to funds. AMAZING If you go to the uploads member only and find WTN when I submitted a couple of songs, those were mastered with HARBAL. Of course there is a lot of other equipment in between the mic and final cd, but this software is killer.
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