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> All Guitars Are Female., my philosophy
Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 31 2007, 09:36 PM
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This topic seems a little "on the border".

Luckily for us we have very understanding female members - thank you Rokchik and Playallday. smile.gif

Let's not test their understanding too much - ok?


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 31 2007, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (rokchik @ Oct 31 2007, 02:21 PM) *
But seriously...why do people refer to stuff in the feminine?


Just to try to answer this at a theoretical level - albeit I'm going to broadbrush and simplify this to keep it very short. We are, to paraphrase Helene Cixous, born in to language, it helps define and helps delimit us. It's a form of objectification of 'the other' (l'autre as the French term it - in this case the female as 'the other' that is symbolically crossed-out).

Objectification connotes ownership and control and also means that the person who objectifies 'the other' is empowered, whilst 'the other' becomes (or is repeatedly made) less human. It in itself rests on an (ab)use or (mis-)exercise of power that helps maintain - and is itself maintained by - an asymmetric society. Now whilst some may argue that 'the other' may use the same language misses the asymmetric power relationship here: there is no level playing field. The first is an abusive exercise of the dominant, the second an attempt at a recuperation of language and subject status and/or a resistance to the near reification by 'the other'. This recuperation and/or resistance occurs because language and meaning as praxis are not fixed and hence there cannot be total domination. cf Hegel's 'Phenomenology of Spirit' and pretty much all of 20thC Continental Philosophy's interpretations and reactions to that work.

At a theoretical level apart from Cixous (and Cixous with Christine Clement - 'La Jeune Fille') a few others worth looking at are: Julia Kristeva (particularly 'Revolution in Poetic Language'), Luce Irigaray ('This sex which is not one'), Michel Foucault ('Discipline and Punish'), Jacques Derrida ('Writing and Difference') and Judith Butler ('Bodies that Matter').

Cheers,
Tony



ps - apologies Kris and others - just thought that Rok's Q was worth an answer


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rokchik
post Oct 31 2007, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 31 2007, 07:05 PM) *
Just to try to answer this at a theoretical level - albeit I'm going to broadbrush and simplify this to keep it very short. We are, to paraphrase Helene Cixous, born in to language, it helps define and helps delimit us. It's a form of objectification of 'the other' (l'autre as the French term it - in this case the female as 'the other' that is symbolically crossed-out).

Objectification connotes ownership and control and also means that the person who objectifies 'the other' is empowered, whilst 'the other' becomes (or is repeatedly made) less human. It in itself rests on an (ab)use or (mis-)exercise of power that helps maintain - and is itself maintained by - an asymmetric society. Now whilst some may argue that 'the other' may use the same language misses the asymmetric power relationship here: there is no level playing field. The first is an abusive exercise of the dominant, the second an attempt at a recuperation of language and subject status and/or a resistance to the near reification by 'the other'. This recuperation and/or resistance occurs because language and meaning as praxis are not fixed and hence there cannot be total domination. cf Hegel's 'Phenomenology of Spirit' and pretty much all of 20thC Continental Philosophy's interpretations and reactions to that work.

At a theoretical level apart from Cixous (and Cixous with Christine Clement - 'La Jeune Fille') a few others worth looking at are: Julia Kristeva (particularly 'Revolution in Poetic Language'), Luce Irigaray ('This sex which is not one'), Michel Foucault ('Discipline and Punish'), Jacques Derrida ('Writing and Difference') and Judith Butler ('Bodies that Matter').

Cheers,
Tony
ps - apologies Kris and others - just thought that Rok's Q was worth an answer


Thanks Tony..I always wondered why that was.(also gave me some interesting liturature to check out) I mean ships, cars etc are always refered to in the feminine sense but I never understood why....although correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Germany refers to things in the Masculine. But either way it's an interesting debate.

rok
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Unleash-The-Shre...
post Nov 1 2007, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Oct 30 2007, 11:35 PM) *
Hmmm, I will play it safe in this thread.... No comment !! laugh.gif


I agree. laugh.gif

QUOTE (ActiveX @ Oct 31 2007, 12:39 AM) *
Ya, and the women I've met here have something called a SENSE OF HUMOR! laugh.gif
Seriously, we are all friends here; friends rip on each other, and it's all in good fun.
As long as no one goes over the line and personally attacks someone, I say bring it on!
Some people these days are WAY too sensitive! It's ok to make jokes about female stereotypes,
and it's ok for the girls to make fun of us guys for how much we smell, how much we belch, how lazy we are,
etc, etc...
I won't be offended, I promise...I hear it every day from my wife!


Exactly! laugh.gif
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Spiderusalem
post Nov 1 2007, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (rokchik @ Oct 31 2007, 01:07 PM) *
This is true for both sides of the coin my friend. But don't get me started on the double standards between men and women laugh.gif All I'll say is there are jerks in both sexes.


Amen. I'll go as far as to say that men can be much worse, more often.


QUOTE (PlayAllDay @ Oct 31 2007, 01:16 PM) *
Does that mean if I bring one of my guitars to bed with us my man gets one of his dearest fantasies fulfilled??? wink.gif laugh.gif


Pretty much


QUOTE (rokchik @ Oct 31 2007, 01:21 PM) *
But seriously...why do people refer to stuff in the feminine?


Why not?


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 31 2007, 01:36 PM) *
This topic seems a little "on the border".


Yeah I tend to do that unsure.gif

luckily though, years of crossing that line and being burned for it have taught me a lesson or two about keeping a controversial subject civil.

And I think we have some of the coolest ladies in the world on these forums. I think they're cool with it =P


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MickeM
post Nov 1 2007, 03:57 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 31 2007, 09:36 PM) *
This topic seems a little "on the border".

Luckily for us we have very understanding female members - thank you Rokchik and Playallday. smile.gif

Let's not test their understanding too much - ok?

I'll say something here to even things up a bit

ALL MEN ARE PIGS!

There... I'd say we're pretty much in balance again. biggrin.gif


And thanks to the ladies for putting up with us (read Spiderusalem lol) smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 1 2007, 03:59 AM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Oct 31 2007, 10:57 PM) *
I'll say something here to even things up a bit

ALL MEN ARE PIGS!

There... I'd say we're pretty much in balance again. biggrin.gif
And thanks to the ladies for putting up with us (read Spiderusalem lol) smile.gif


Now I'm forced to swing into action and be even handed ...

MickeM, Please don't be rude about men wink.gif


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Ryan
post Nov 1 2007, 04:06 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Oct 31 2007, 09:59 PM) *
Now I'm forced to swing into action and be even handed ...

MickeM, Please don't be rude about men wink.gif

I 2nd that, I dont roll around in mud, or snort!!


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botoxfox
post Nov 1 2007, 04:08 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Oct 31 2007, 08:06 PM) *
I 2nd that, I dont roll around in mud, or snort!!

I do... unsure.gif


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Ryan
post Nov 1 2007, 04:09 AM
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QUOTE (botoxfox @ Oct 31 2007, 10:08 PM) *
I do... unsure.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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The Uncreator
post Nov 1 2007, 04:20 AM
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I think guitars are females or males if you want them to be. I got a "Male" namd one and a "Female" named one.
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MickeM
post Nov 1 2007, 04:30 AM
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QUOTE (rokchik @ Oct 31 2007, 09:21 PM) *
But seriously...why do people refer to stuff in the feminine?

I know tonymiro gave an answer already but since I didn't understand a word of what he said I'll give one too. huh.gif Sorry Tony biggrin.gif


About cars, boats (which I think have complicated unwritten rules aswell about what they should be called), guitars, it's not always female naming but could also be a name that represents a power within the object. Like Thunder, Speed demon, Nuke, to tell us something about abuilt in power. A guitar with pickups that glow since their output is enormous, a very fast racecar, a strong towboat.
Others objects that we wish to love (historically built by men for men), like a guitar, was build with round appealing feminine attributes to please a man. Hence the normal would be to give what we understand as feminine by form, shape, color, tone or whatever with a feminine name.
Like yourself, you looked for a masculine charcteristics in your guitar, the growling (or what you said?) and therefore could see it as a man.

I'd find it odd for example if I had a very edgy, pointy, agressive shaped guitar and give it a female namn, I'd rather call such a guitar Hurricane, Spiky, Killer Death Knife or something

I suspect all comes down to Freud in the end. How odd would it be if Andrew called his JEM Micke, or I called my guitat Andrew. People would draw conclusions from that and say - They gave their guitars masculine names, they are gay! (ok, maybe a bit exaggerated but I think the point was clear)

I don't name my guitars btw, I really don't see any reason to name an object unless I had dozens of guitars and a roadie I could send for errands to tune em, fetch em etc. But then I think I'd rather just callem them for what they were - Get me the green one, I'm performing with that one tonight. Keep the dented one as backup!

... on the other hand I name people on my street, colleagues etc laugh.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 1 2007, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 1 2007, 03:59 AM) *
Now I'm forced to swing into action and be even handed ...

MickeM, Please don't be rude about men wink.gif


Ah yes so true, we are working hard to get more male activity on the forum as well! biggrin.gif


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MickeM
post Nov 1 2007, 04:35 AM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Nov 1 2007, 04:20 AM) *
I think guitars are females or males if you want them to be. I got a "Male" namd one and a "Female" named one.

Just to proove what I said. Is the male one named after a beast or fiction figure that can slice an enemy in 100 pieces with his sword in 1 second and the female from a sweet appealing woman. ...or sweet appealing fiction figure who can slice... you get the point? Male = agressive or powerful, Female = sexy and appealing

i'm sure you didn't name the male one with one of your buddies in mind.


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The Uncreator
post Nov 1 2007, 04:39 AM
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His name would be Unas.

Unas was an egyptian pharoah who supposedly swallowed the souls of dead or dying gods, its also a Nile Song "Unas Slayer Of The Gods", i named it so becuase it used strictly for low tunings such as Drop A, Like what Nile play in smile.gif

and "Her" name would be Alyx.

Named after the character in Half-Life 2, she doesnt look like it, but she can put out some serious hurt on an enemy, much like my guitar, doesnt seem like it would be used for heavy stuff, but it has a monsterous tone. That and both are hot. smile.gif

This post has been edited by The Uncreator: Nov 1 2007, 04:41 AM
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Spiderusalem
post Nov 1 2007, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Oct 31 2007, 08:30 PM) *
I suspect all comes down to Freud in the end. How odd would it be if Andrew called his JEM Micke, or I called my guitat Andrew. People would draw conclusions from that and say - They gave their guitars masculine names, they are gay! (ok, maybe a bit exaggerated but I think the point was clear)



LOL laugh.gif laugh.gif

Nothing wrong with that tongue.gif

Yeah I understand that not everyone see's their guitars as female. But thats the way I see them. Even the aggresive ones. Like I said, to me they are the mothers of our signal.

I named my guitar "Jane" after a woman in my theater company. I had a huge crush on her when I was 18. the problem was she was 36 (but looked 20, she was asian). Do the math, she was twice my age at the time. She was beyond me in experience and whatnot. Thats the way I see my guitar. Its so much power and so much potential and so much beauty that I see it as beyond me, something that I'll have to grow into.

This post has been edited by Spiderusalem: Nov 1 2007, 04:44 AM


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MickeM
post Nov 1 2007, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Nov 1 2007, 04:39 AM) *
His name would be Unas.

Unas was an egyptian pharoah who supposedly swallowed the souls of dead or dying gods, its also a Nile Song "Unas Slayer Of The Gods", i named it so becuase it used strictly for low tunings such as Drop A, Like what Nile play in smile.gif

and "Her" name would be Alyx.

Named after the character in Half-Life 2, she doesnt look like it, but she can put out some serious hurt on an enemy, much like my guitar, doesnt seem like it would be used for heavy stuff, but it has a monsterous tone. That and both are hot. smile.gif

There's also a creature in Stargate SG-1 are called Unas.

But I think my saying wa close enough. Unas, a slayer. Alyx, a curvy and stong figure. cool.gif


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post Nov 1 2007, 05:02 AM
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you always post weird, yet insightful topics. WINNAR!


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post May 21 2010, 08:53 PM
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Not mine. Mine are guys. Never thought of them as girls. That way, when I talk to them, they are all my level.

Yes, I talk to my guitars.


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post May 21 2010, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 31 2007, 11:05 PM) *
Just to try to answer this at a theoretical level - albeit I'm going to broadbrush and simplify this to keep it very short. We are, to paraphrase Helene Cixous, born in to language, it helps define and helps delimit us. It's a form of objectification of 'the other' (l'autre as the French term it - in this case the female as 'the other' that is symbolically crossed-out).

Objectification connotes ownership and control and also means that the person who objectifies 'the other' is empowered, whilst 'the other' becomes (or is repeatedly made) less human. It in itself rests on an (ab)use or (mis-)exercise of power that helps maintain - and is itself maintained by - an asymmetric society. Now whilst some may argue that 'the other' may use the same language misses the asymmetric power relationship here: there is no level playing field. The first is an abusive exercise of the dominant, the second an attempt at a recuperation of language and subject status and/or a resistance to the near reification by 'the other'. This recuperation and/or resistance occurs because language and meaning as praxis are not fixed and hence there cannot be total domination. cf Hegel's 'Phenomenology of Spirit' and pretty much all of 20thC Continental Philosophy's interpretations and reactions to that work.

At a theoretical level apart from Cixous (and Cixous with Christine Clement - 'La Jeune Fille') a few others worth looking at are: Julia Kristeva (particularly 'Revolution in Poetic Language'), Luce Irigaray ('This sex which is not one'), Michel Foucault ('Discipline and Punish'), Jacques Derrida ('Writing and Difference') and Judith Butler ('Bodies that Matter').

Cheers,
Tony



ps - apologies Kris and others - just thought that Rok's Q was worth an answer


I only refer to my things in the feminine , because like my wife ,I want to put my hands all over her
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