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> Memorising Scales., An idea
Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (sillyman @ Nov 13 2007, 12:50 PM) *
What do you mean by learn all the key signatures, does that mean you learn all the notes in each scale or what?


Yes, that's basically it - but its pretty much the same as learning all the notes in the different major scales as key signatures are based on major scales.


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Smurkas
post Nov 22 2007, 05:24 PM
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Ok I have another idea for braking out of the boxes which also could be a rather quick way of learning to play scales without being stuck in one box or another. One of the major problems with the boxes (as I see it) is that they're based on rote learning. As others have said they can get you some results fast but they are, in the end, a rather clumsy way to learn.

The problem facing every guitarist when improvising is of course which note to play next and where that note is. When using the box method, what your brain does is identify which box you're playing in and from there you get the notes you can play. I have always felt that this causes problems when you switch boxes since you not only have to identify where you are in the scale, you have to identify the whole box before you're "safe". I've been able to play the boxes up and down the neck for quite some time now but still tend to get stuck in a box when soloing.

My solution for this is a new way of thinking about the scales based on heuristic thinking. Heuristic thinking is based on the fact that the brain uses simple rules of thumb to make snap judgements about what to do next, so what I needed were simple rules I could use for decision making instead of big unwieldy boxes.

After looking at all the patterns for awhile I noticed something I should have noticed a long time ago. The patterns your fingers take when playing the scales come in three different versions and they always repeat in the same order, the only variation is where you start.

From this we can build simple rules that can be used to figure out what to play next. If we use the classic shapes from the box we get two repeats for the three note patterns and one repeat for the two note pattern. I abbreviated that to 3*2 and 2*1. Below I have drawn the notes for C minor in one of the boxes to illustrate my point. The tonic is to be found on the third fret on the A string and the fifth fret of the G string. The minor pattern is easy using this system since you start at the first of two repeating patterns.


e----------------------------------3-4-6- <- Repeats twice 3*2
B---------------------------3-4-6-------- <- Repeats twice 3*2
G----------------------3-5--------------- <- Repeats once 2*1
D---------------3-5-6-------------------- <- See! tongue.gif
A--------3-5-6--------------------------- <- Repeats twice 3*2
E-3-4-6---------------------------------- <- Would have repeated twice if you had a seven string tongue.gif

Now no matter where you are on the neck the patterns will repeat in the exact same way. If you start from the tonic you will always play the same pattern again on the string below the one you're on. So if you start on the fifth fret G string and go to the B string from there, you will play the exact same pattern again but it will move up a half step.

I feel I need to find better ways to explain this but if anyone gets this, please let me know. I have managed to teach the system to a friend and his soloing took off rather quickly afterwards. Both of us have been playing for awhile though so I'm not sure if this is a system that should be taught to intermediates or if you should try teaching beginners. Or if it should be taught at all laugh.gif.


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Tank
post Nov 22 2007, 05:40 PM
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^ This is similar to something which I used when I first went about learning all the modal positions.

In fact, here it is smile.gif

http://www.freelicks.net/Three_notes_per_string.htm
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Nov 22 2007, 08:06 PM
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It means that there are 12 key signatures. You can shift only one pattern for example to every fret on the fretboard and get all the signatures. But if you really want to know what you are playing have the time (maybe 10minutes per day) to learn the notes on the fretboard to the 12 fret and you will learn it in the term of weeks. it will be very handy on finding the one key signature you need.
When i didn`t know all the notes on the fretboard i usually first tried to find a key on a D string by ear and then move along through boxes, but later when i learned all the notes, just playing any note on fretboard will instantly "translate" me to that key. When i accidently play some of the "out of key" notes a do some simple hromatic run repeatedly with that note and it sound like an intent smile.gif

This post has been edited by Milenkovic Ivan: Nov 22 2007, 08:07 PM


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PlayAllDay
post Nov 22 2007, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE (Smurkas @ Nov 23 2007, 01:24 AM) *
I feel I need to find better ways to explain this but if anyone gets this, please let me know. I have managed to teach the system to a friend and his soloing took off rather quickly afterwards. Both of us have been playing for awhile though so I'm not sure if this is a system that should be taught to intermediates or if you should try teaching beginners. Or if it should be taught at all laugh.gif.
/Marcus

I don't quite get the way you've explained it Marcus but I'd like to. I want to understand ALL i can about scales and approaches to teach them before I die!

QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Nov 23 2007, 04:06 AM) *
When i accidently play some of the "out of key" notes a do some simple hromatic run repeatedly with that note and it sound like an intent smile.gif

Good trick Ivan, I do this too laugh.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Nov 23 2007, 08:02 PM
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It is one of the nicer ways of getting around mistakes i guess. But I do try to make some good phrasing after the mistake so the people forget about it. smile.gif


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Iluha
post Dec 1 2007, 10:57 AM
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Just as an expansion, check out this video lesson:
http://shredacademy.com/lessons/j_cefalu.htm

He demonstrates his method on the pentatonic scale, but it can be applied with any scale smile.gif


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