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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 02:15 AM
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Steve, when you say the sound is higher pitched, do you really mean that the sound is pitch shifted - e.g. it plays back in a different key? Or do you mean it sounds like it has more treble, like someone turned the tone knob up full?

The later could be caused by the difference in amp speakers and your PC speakers.


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steve25
post Nov 13 2007, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 13 2007, 03:15 AM) *
Steve, when you say the sound is higher pitched, do you really mean that the sound is pitch shifted - e.g. it plays back in a different key? Or do you mean it sounds like it has more treble, like someone turned the tone knob up full?

The later could be caused by the difference in amp speakers and your PC speakers.


Sorry no i meant treble high. Yeah i figured it had something to do with my setup. Do you think raising the mids on my PODxt would do it? Thing is when i hear it through the headphones from the POD it sounds more bassy then what comes out of the recording. So it can't be the amp speaker can it?

Although i guess what you're saying it when i play it through my amp it will sound chunkier then but compared to my amp the recordings are nowhere near as good as that anyway.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 02:40 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 12 2007, 08:25 PM) *
Sorry no i meant treble high. Yeah i figured it had something to do with my setup. Do you think raising the mids on my PODxt would do it? Thing is when i hear it through the headphones from the POD it sounds more bassy then what comes out of the recording. So it can't be the amp speaker can it?

Although i guess what you're saying it when i play it through my amp it will sound chunkier then but compared to my amp the recordings are nowhere near as good as that anyway.


It will sound different for sure. One important thing when recording is good monitoring, and PC speakers just won;t do it. To get serious you need a decent pair of purpose designed monitors and they will give you a truer feel for what is recorded. Both your amp and your PC speakers will distort in different ways, so might your sound card.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Nov 13 2007, 02:46 AM
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Ach, you can pretty much ignore what I was saying then Steve - I was assuming that the frequency shift was down to a mismatch between the pod audio and cubase. (I don't use pc speakers so Andrew's line of thought just didn't occur to me smile.gif .) Anyway won't hurt to check them and ensure you're using ASIO at the same time and Andrew's also right about investing in good monitors when you can.

Cheers,
Tony


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steve25
post Nov 13 2007, 02:54 AM
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Ok yeah i'll still double check. Well i was going to get some studio monitor headphones for christmas. They're ones made by sony would they be good enough. Price is around £70 i think. Andrew i think i already know the answer but might be wrong, is it possible to get a sound the same or at least closely similar to my amp without micing it? I mean as i said earlier i'm using the same PODxt patch but recording without the amp, just headphones
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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 12 2007, 08:54 PM) *
Ok yeah i'll still double check. Well i was going to get some studio monitor headphones for christmas. They're ones made by sony would they be good enough. Price is around £70 i think. Andrew i think i already know the answer but might be wrong, is it possible to get a sound the same or at least closely similar to my amp without micing it? I mean as i said earlier i'm using the same PODxt patch but recording without the amp, just headphones


They will sound different for sure - you need to decide which you prefer. FWIW, the pod is designed to work straight into a sound card because it has built in modelling.


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WTN
post Nov 13 2007, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 12 2007, 06:40 PM) *
Thanks for trying to help me out guys, i bet this sort of things gets tiring after a while. Tony, how could i check that? I know you don't have a POD but what would you do in cubase?

Muris: Oh right cool i don't use one of those i just use what my POD patch has. Do you prefer to record clean then do it that way? So what you're saying is you use that for mono then use cubase for stereo?

WTN: I think i get you, but what i mean is why don't you like recording your rhythms in stereo why only mono? Yeah i didn't think doubling leads was what i should be doing. Cleans and leads aren't too bad



Once again see below - here you can hear it - you cannot get this sound in one pass in stereo - in double tracking there will be natural timing differences which translate into natural, subtle, flanging effects - and you have not used any effects box. (this song is long - just listen to the first 2 minutes or so) Keep asking questions - I have been doing this for quite a while and have no problem answering your questions. We all started as newbies at one point.

If you want to hear an example of double tracking go to uploads (members only) and look for the song Resurrection from WTN. The rhythm parts are double tracked. The amp is a Mesa Tremoverb. The mic is an SM57 and the pre is a SCA N72 which is a copy of a NEVE 1272. SCA is Seventh Circle Audio. These are kits that you have to build.
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steve25
post Nov 13 2007, 04:54 AM
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QUOTE (WTN @ Nov 13 2007, 05:10 AM) *
Once again see below - here you can hear it - you cannot get this sound in one pass in stereo - in double tracking there will be natural timing differences which translate into natural, subtle, flanging effects - and you have not used any effects box. (this song is long - just listen to the first 2 minutes or so) Keep asking questions - I have been doing this for quite a while and have no problem answering your questions. We all started as newbies at one point.

If you want to hear an example of double tracking go to uploads (members only) and look for the song Resurrection from WTN. The rhythm parts are double tracked. The amp is a Mesa Tremoverb. The mic is an SM57 and the pre is a SCA N72 which is a copy of a NEVE 1272. SCA is Seventh Circle Audio. These are kits that you have to build.


Ok but could why do you not like doing double tracking stereo, why do you prefer double tracking mono? I understand that one pass stereo wouldn't be as good.
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WTN
post Nov 13 2007, 05:41 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 12 2007, 09:54 PM) *
Ok but could why do you not like doing double tracking stereo, why do you prefer double tracking mono? I understand that one pass stereo wouldn't be as good.


OK - stereo as implied using an effects box or preamp like POD means that some processing has taken affect. This could be a number of things - reverb, flange, pitch shift, or at least a pseudo stereo effect which for sure has happened since your input is mono. (Check out "pseudo stereo effect" under Google for more info) Any of these will alter the input waveform timing (left vs right channel) If you repeat this and double track stereo it will sound like CRAP - try it. I have to ask if you have listened to my example? That's what double tracking sounds like. You cannot get there without mono input tracks. That being said, if you want to record in stereo and double track - here is what you do. For example, I used a Yamaha AW16G and some times I ran out of mono channels. I might have recorded the guitar in stereo like on channel 9 left and 10 right. Then I get the next performance recorded on 11 left and 12 right. No effects at all. When I mix it down I want channel 9 panned left and channel 12 panned right. This really gives you two mono channels double tracked. I hope this makes sense.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 12 2007, 10:54 PM) *
Ok but could why do you not like doing double tracking stereo, why do you prefer double tracking mono? I understand that one pass stereo wouldn't be as good.


Doesn't really matter if you pan it correctly ... the double tracking is the key.


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WTN
post Nov 13 2007, 06:11 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 12 2007, 10:42 PM) *
Doesn't really matter if you pan it correctly ... the double tracking is the key.


OK - Steve25 - Here is another great example - go to www.myspace.com/blackline - check out their song called amargeddon soul. It starts with the mono rhythm panned in the center with very if any effects. Then it pans far left and far right and I know for a fact that these are double tracked through Mesa amps and recorded one at a time in mono. Heck they could be doubled again - I forget - but this sound blows me away for rhythm stuff. (I have no affliation with this band at all - just ran across them will searching for Mesa stuff)

QUOTE (WTN @ Nov 12 2007, 11:07 PM) *
OK - Steve25 - Here is another great example - go to www.myspace.com/blackline - check out their song called amargeddon soul. It starts with the mono rhythm panned in the center with very if any effects. Then it pans far left and far right and I know for a fact that these are double tracked through Mesa amps and recorded one at a time in mono. Heck they could be doubled again - I forget - but this sound blows me away for rhythm stuff. (I have no affliation with this band at all - just ran across them will searching for Mesa stuff)



Not to mention I wished I could find a singer who had this type of voice - killer.
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steve25
post Nov 13 2007, 07:17 AM
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Ok, so let me try and get this crystal clear from what you guys are saying. My POD is giving out a mono signal? Therefore i need to be recording in mono in cubase? Or are you saying i can change my POD to output stereo and if i multitrack that with another stereo it'll sound aweful. Right now i've tried multi tracking stereo. If you are saying i should record in mono then i shall try that from now on and see if the results are any better. However i noticed Muris said that he records in stereo.

Edit: WTN yes i did listen to your recording very nice indeed

This post has been edited by steve25: Nov 13 2007, 07:18 AM
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WTN
post Nov 13 2007, 07:39 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 13 2007, 12:17 AM) *
Ok, so let me try and get this crystal clear from what you guys are saying. My POD is giving out a mono signal? Therefore i need to be recording in mono in cubase? Or are you saying i can change my POD to output stereo and if i multitrack that with another stereo it'll sound aweful. Right now i've tried multi tracking stereo. If you are saying i should record in mono then i shall try that from now on and see if the results are any better. However i noticed Muris said that he records in stereo.

Edit: WTN yes i did listen to your recording very nice indeed


Oh boy - someone needs to jump in here that uses cubase. Your POD is not giving out a mono signal if you have two connectors from it to whatever USB interface you are using. I do not use a computer for recording - never will - I use a standalone multitrack recorder - like Yamaha AW16G or their latest - too much crap happens when one uses a PC for recording. I don't know what to say here. Someone will jump in here and give you the right answers. I am not familiar with cubase so I am sorry for jumping in this thread.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 07:49 AM
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Nope, you are getting stereo if you are recording via USB ... (because you start with a mono signal, and it gets converted to pseudo stereo by effects like delay or chorus). Leave those off and what you have is to all intents a mono signal even if it is recorded on a stereo track. You can then pan it left and right after recording and you will get the desired effect.


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steve25
post Nov 13 2007, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 13 2007, 08:49 AM) *
Nope, you are getting stereo if you are recording via USB ... (because you start with a mono signal, and it gets converted to pseudo stereo by effects like delay or chorus). Leave those off and what you have is to all intents a mono signal even if it is recorded on a stereo track. You can then pan it left and right after recording and you will get the desired effect.


Ok thanks Andrew so is there much difference in sound and sound quality if i were to record either mono or stereo with my POD?
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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 13 2007, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Nov 13 2007, 02:05 AM) *
Ok thanks Andrew so is there much difference in sound and sound quality if i were to record either mono or stereo with my POD?


You have to decide on what effect you are going for. If you don't add stereo effects in the pod there will be no difference, if you add stereo effects and record in mono some of the impact and perceived spread of the signal would be lost.


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ballistic31
post Nov 14 2007, 05:29 PM
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well basicaly if you want to here what a pod sounds like double tracked................basicaly 1 track panned left and one track panned right...............I have uploaded a demo song in the very rough stage of its life..but it will give you an idea of what you will be going for ..........it is distorted..........dry no effects.......and for resons i have mentioned in my last post..........It was a sugested to me by tony miro...with a mixing problem i was haveing....and the advice was priceless ( I probly owe him lunch for all the great advice he has given me lol )

you will need to set up some stereo sends............or busses for it to work well .........that is where you want to put in effects......................compressors reverb what ever you so desire...........this is where your true sound will come to life...........a eq stuffed in there some where to tailor your sound a bit never hurts....

The song is called high on a half pipe in the uploads section ......still a rough draft for right now ........but even though the guitar sounds a bit weak............but if i add some compressor to it and eq...lil splash of corus..... to the busses..........it will have a huge wide panned sound.....and a clean distorted sound cause it was recorded dry with out effects........

I recorded it useing the line outs on the back thru my mixing board.............basicaly the same effect as a usb cable

The sound you where getting from the recording i listened to sounded like a pretty good base to work with ......Although you are looking to start off with that huge sound right from the git go i would advise........building that sound in the mixing process........ just my opinion im trying to keep it as simple as i can so i dont get you all confussed lol .............cause i have been right where you are a few monthes back


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