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> Why Not To Use Pirated Software, Some personal thoughts for debate
The Uncreator
post Nov 14 2007, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (bad_tel @ Nov 13 2007, 08:49 PM) *
1 question have none of you ever downloaded a song
well ok but i bet there is not 1 person who has not recorded a track of the radio on to a casset well thats illegal


Never downloaded a single song, and i dont even listen to the radio (i dont like anything on the radio), ive bought every piece of music i own.
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Fsgdjv
post Nov 14 2007, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE (Animosity @ Nov 14 2007, 06:27 AM) *
Wrong.

I'm not sure about all these kinds of fancy words, so I may be wrong, sure. But questioning the authorities is something that makes democracys thrive, heck, it's what made democacy a possibillity. And, when a lot of people brake a certain law in a democracy, the ones in charge has to listen, and they do listen in democracys, unlike what they may do in some totalitarian state. That's what I meant by typing democracy, it fits perfectly in a democracy and (in my opinion) it's just healty for the countrys evolution. And, aren't there a lot of weird laws almost everywhere that noone follows? Like I've read a lot of lists of funny laws in some american states that I'm sure nobody follows, but I suppose that's not the case for you?

After some googling I found I site that lists stupid laws, I don't know how credible it is, but it seems good enough since it lists where in the law books the laws are and so on, but I can't really check it up. But for example, look at this law:
http://www.dumblaws.com/law/1279

And browe around the page if you just want a laugh, and I can't say that this page isn't a joke, but you get my point.


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The Uncreator
post Nov 14 2007, 08:07 AM
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I saw a few other posts saying the real problem is not whether who has done it, but whether it is immoral/ wrong/ or justified ( we all seem to agree, that in fact, it is illegal )

Immoral: Well thats a personal oppinion, which maybe i havent been thinking of, and as with any set of oppinions, none are all the same, to me it is immoral, my morals tell me that the software, music, or film thats being pirated had someone hard working behind it, and they put alot of time and effort to create it (or even a team of people)

I would like to ask one question, i dont know the history of computers that well, but how did pirated software help computers? im not saying this as some smart ass remark, i would really like to know, i see an opportunity to gain some extra knowledge.

This post has been edited by The Uncreator: Nov 14 2007, 08:08 AM
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Jeff
post Nov 14 2007, 08:11 AM
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I just spent 1/2 hour reading this thread. Damn, I just missed 1/2 hour of practice! biggrin.gif
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Fsgdjv
post Nov 14 2007, 08:13 AM
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fast answer to the uncreator: I think the one who said that basically meant that a lot of people bought computers because it makes it possible to download movies, music and so on. At least that's the only thing I can think of.

edit: typo

This post has been edited by Fsgdjv: Nov 14 2007, 08:13 AM


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The Uncreator
post Nov 14 2007, 08:14 AM
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I can see that being a point, but hell, computers were easily available before that stuff was widespread.
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Fsgdjv
post Nov 14 2007, 08:17 AM
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Agreed, but it was what I could think of.


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The Uncreator
post Nov 14 2007, 08:22 AM
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Anyone else got any theories?
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steve25
post Nov 14 2007, 08:27 AM
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Here's a thought. Is it ok to download music that's not for sale? What i mean it lets say you like a certain song in a movie or something but you can't find it anywhere to buy. Is it ok to download it or rip the audio off of the dvd do you think?
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FretDancer69
post Nov 14 2007, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Nov 14 2007, 01:22 AM) *
Anyone else got any theories?


yeah i do. For example. Lets say this person wants to become a programmer, to create Real programs and software like GP in the future. But has no access to tools and stuff that might help him, why? probably because he doesent have enough money, or it might be because those tools are beyond his ability to obtain.

What could you do? Lets say, he manages to get something like Visual Basic, For free, and PIRATED/ILLEGALLY, Visual Basic is a basic program that allows you to create programs and to learn how more or less the procedure is done. After he obtains this, he begins his quest (just like we all did with our guitars). As time passes, he becomes a really good programmer, and what happens? lets say, he and a team manages to create something really useful, powerful and awesome like Guitar Pro.

Now, thats a story. But analize how he was able to start his "quest in order to create such powerful and helpful programs we keep mentioning here.

This post has been edited by FretDancer69: Nov 14 2007, 08:33 AM


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Zephyr
post Nov 14 2007, 08:32 AM
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Hmm... my opinion on downloading free music is that it's alright if you're just checking the artist out, but if you decide that you're a fan and want to actually listen to their music, you should go out and buy it. It's just not fair to the artist. The same applies to programs, someone spent their time and resources making it, and they deserve compensation.

I mean, it's not like it matters that much to huge artists, who are making millions as it is, but it's still fair...

This post has been edited by Zephyr: Nov 14 2007, 08:33 AM
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swingline
post Nov 14 2007, 08:44 AM
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Sorry about being so aggressive before I'm just a little upset because my best friend is living from paycheck to paycheck because of pirated software.
By the way he is a software designer.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Nov 14 2007, 08:53 AM
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Thanks Swingline,
the topic seems to be 'close to home' for quite a few and so potentially emotive. As moderator I just want to try to keep the discussion civil and friendly so appreciate your apology.

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ActiveX
post Nov 14 2007, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Nov 13 2007, 11:32 PM) *
yeah i do. For example. Lets say this person wants to become a programmer, to create Real programs and software like GP in the future. But has no access to tools and stuff that might help him, why? probably because he doesent have enough money, or it might be because those tools are beyond his ability to obtain.

What could you do? Lets say, he manages to get something like Visual Basic, For free, and PIRATED/ILLEGALLY, Visual Basic is a basic program that allows you to create programs and to learn how more or less the procedure is done. After he obtains this, he begins his quest (just like we all did with our guitars). As time passes, he becomes a really good programmer, and what happens? lets say, he and a team manages to create something really useful, powerful and awesome like Guitar Pro.

Now, thats a story. But analize how he was able to start his "quest in order to create such powerful and helpful programs we keep mentioning here.


If this person was like myself, I started out learing with open-source tools and free software like Microsoft's MS Express Visual Studio
Like previously stated earlier in this thread, there are always alternatives to stealing software.
...I'm still on my quest though; I work in a cubicle as a code monkey for a big company from 9 -5, then work from home evenings and weekends on my own stuff...then dishonest people steal it; and alas, I'm still in my cubicle wink.gif
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Jeff
post Nov 14 2007, 09:07 AM
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I think the guys at Reaper have a good thing going on. Make a product that you believe in, one that works well, light weight and runs on just about anything. Put it out there as uncrippled software and then challenge the big guys at a more than reasonable and affordable price. Get the users involved through the forums and guitar sites like GMC and then see what happens. That's what they are doing and it works like a charm. The Reaper community is actively involved in providing feedback to the developers and the developers can basically use them as testers and the users enjoy the involvement. It seems to me that the idea of "let your conscience be your guide" model is working for them because they have something good.

It's true that they could not sustain business however, if nobody purchases their software but that is the risk of doing business. There are enough people out there who will buy something when it's a good value and affordable as opposed to getting pirated copies. But on the other hand, what will happen to them as they grow? Maybe the same thing that has happened to every other small software company that has grown to become a big corporate machine that everyone despises...

I think that some (not all) - some software companies have totally priced themselves out of what the average person needs. New bloated OS requiring more RAM to run mostly unused application options, pretty graphics and upgrades and a host of other things that, in all reality, most people don't even use. This drives up the price of software and hardware and then the piracy starts.

I don't agree with piracy at all, but I can understand why it exists. I don't think it will ever go away. It's just a part of life that we have to deal with I suppose. mellow.gif
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fkalich
post Nov 14 2007, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Nov 14 2007, 12:58 AM) *
Stealing a TV like you said will clearly not change the rules so that act will become legal. Seriously, to that extent I don't see your point... at all.
Lars does laugh.gif


The changing society thing was nonsense. This is not Nazi Germany. No death camps. Last I saw, we still elected our public officials. I write my congressmen and senators, they always write back and explain themselves. That is how we get along, in a lawful orderly fashion.

I will take the evil capitalists with all their faults, over the alternative. I am partial to sustained healthy economic growth. Besides, if you ever saw a budget of a large corporation, the compensation to top execs is pretty minor in comparison to the whole budget, actually not even consequential with respect to overall profitability. The top execs are not the corporation, the corporation is an entity unto itself, whose property rights need to be respected. When companies are profitable, they are productive. Drug companies will not spend zillion of development dollars coming up with drugs to cure diseases if they have to just give it away at the end.

In the software/media industries. Well I think we can assume that if this "sharing" of somebody else's stolen property did not adversely effect profitability, they would not object. I know, you can decide if you deserve it, besides, this is just part of the overall revolution. Just don't complain when you come home and your prized guitar is missing. That was part of his social revolution.
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fkalich
post Nov 14 2007, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE (jeff @ Nov 14 2007, 02:07 AM) *
I don't agree with piracy at all, but I can understand why it exists. I don't think it will ever go away. It's just a part of life that we have to deal with I suppose. mellow.gif


At some point you will have to check in every time you use it. Your rights to it will be verified. You won't get away with it anymore. That is the solution, and I am sure the industries will move in that direction at some point.

In other words, you won't get away with it. No, there will be no revolution, just better enforcement, fines, jail terms. Which is what needs to be done.

My brother once told me something. You can try to get to people by trying to convince them on the morality of some behavior. You might get to them. However, nobody likes a baseball bat smashing into their knee cap. You can be sure that will be an effective determent. When people are afraid to steal this stuff, when they think they will get into trouble, they will mostly stop doing it. Up to then, only those who hold higher ethics on such things will refrain. Others will do it, and besides, this is just party of the glorious revolution against the evil capitalists.
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shredmandan
post Nov 14 2007, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Nov 14 2007, 01:58 AM) *
change of rules.
Stealing a TV like you said will clearly not change the rules so that act will become legal. Seriously, to that extent I don't see your point... at all.
Lars does laugh.gif



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The Uncreator
post Nov 14 2007, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Nov 13 2007, 11:32 PM) *
yeah i do. For example. Lets say this person wants to become a programmer, to create Real programs and software like GP in the future. But has no access to tools and stuff that might help him, why? probably because he doesent have enough money, or it might be because those tools are beyond his ability to obtain.

What could you do? Lets say, he manages to get something like Visual Basic, For free, and PIRATED/ILLEGALLY, Visual Basic is a basic program that allows you to create programs and to learn how more or less the procedure is done. After he obtains this, he begins his quest (just like we all did with our guitars). As time passes, he becomes a really good programmer, and what happens? lets say, he and a team manages to create something really useful, powerful and awesome like Guitar Pro.


I would still prefer some kinda facts to support that claim of pirated software makes computers commercially available.
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fkalich
post Nov 14 2007, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (shredmandan @ Nov 14 2007, 02:37 AM) *


That was good, entertaining way to make the point.

Another example, and here I get on the good side of Kris, and probably the teachers.

For $50 every six months I get this site. That is an absolute steal. It is worth more than that. Clearly. This is the best instruction money can buy in my view.

Kris comes up with a great idea, runs a super business, real smart. But he can only charge a fraction of what it is worth. Why? Because if he charges more, people will start stealing. For $50 every 6 months, not worth their bother. But if he charges more, there goes the revenue stream.

So he can only pay the instructors what the business can afford to pay them. If he could raise prices, and stuff would not get "SHARED", he could pay them more. See how this works, this glorious revolution. Just hurts the entrepreneur, and everybody that works for him. They don't get what they really all deserve because they have to concern themselves with not making theft attractive to users.

This is how it goes in the whole industry, because of the theft. Lower profitability, less employment. But I know, just part of the glorious holy revolution.
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