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> Sad Realization, Amp/Pedal question
Goliath
post Nov 15 2007, 10:28 PM
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I got together with my buddy after playing through headphones on my Pod for ages, I plugged in my Bandit 112 (this badboy is probably 10 years old, mind you), and horror of horrors! It's a bad amp!

The sound is miserable, the distortion sounds awful. Reverb just makes a lot of background noise while not playing.

Now, I've got my purchase of a nice head/cab mapped out for if/when I start gigging, but in the meantime I'm looking for something a little higher quality sounding so I came up with a couple ideas and want to get y'alls input.

1. Get one of those cheap epiphone valve amps and decent distortion pedal. Me and my buddy play mostly thrash type stuff, so any good pedal recommendations?

2. Get a new quality tube combo. A 1x12 is overkill. 5w would be plenty of power. For the price of a pedal and one of those cheap valves (with their horrid tweed), I could get a combo, it looks like. So any low wattage tube combo amp recommendations? I'd like to have solid amp distortion since it always sounds better to me than pedal distortion. A foot switch -out would need to be required, or else we're playing the pedal game again. This would be an opportune time to question if my PodXT Live could be used for this, since I don't know if many of these cheap tube amps will have effects loops. I ran it through the effects loop and it sounded horrible on my 112, the gain that's there in the headphones just wasn't coming out of my speaker. A Peavey Minicolossal would be overykill, methinks, but anybody have any experiences with amps in this range?


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Goliath
post Nov 15 2007, 10:45 PM
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Well, it looks like a 112 woudl be the only amp that had enough features to not just get a pedal and an Epi Valve Jr.

This is the front runner for my price range

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cra...-Amp?sku=487054

What is the difference between a Class A and Class AB?

The Mini Colossal is only $50 more and has an attenuator built in.

Also, how is the sound from a 6L6, isn't EL34/EL84 the gold standard for tube amps for hard rock/metal?

Anyone played a Mini Colossal?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Pea...-Amp?sku=480777

It looks like it hits on more of the features than the other amp, has an effects loop, so I guess I could use my Pod on it.

Any thoughts on that one?


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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 15 2007, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Nov 15 2007, 04:39 PM) *
Well, it looks like a 112 woudl be the only amp that had enough features to not just get a pedal and an Epi Valve Jr.

This is the front runner for my price range

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cra...-Amp?sku=487054

What is the difference between a Class A and Class AB?

The Mini Colossal is only $50 more and has an attenuator built in.

Also, how is the sound from a 6L6, isn't EL34/EL84 the gold standard for tube amps for hard rock/metal?


Hi Goliath - I have the Epi Junior but I believe I mentioned that I had hardly used it yet smile.gif (Just wait till I move house!!). But as you say, its not going to give you huge amounts of distortion and you would need a pedal with it.

6L6 and EL34 all have great rock pedigrees - its a matter of taste rather than whether or nor either is good or bad for rock. The EL34 will tend to give you more of a British sound - its what Marshalls use, whilst Fenders typically use 6L6 tubes.

The EL84 is a much lower power variant that has become popular for low output amps (and is what the Epi uses) - they can really rock too, just not in the Epi design.

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Nov 15 2007, 10:46 PM


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Goliath
post Nov 15 2007, 11:20 PM
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Have you used your XTL with your Epi? How's it sound?


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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 15 2007, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Nov 15 2007, 05:20 PM) *
Have you used your XTL with your Epi? How's it sound?


No, not yet, and I probably wouldn't - the CTL is designed for clean amplification, it get its AMP sound form the modeling. Adding more Amp sound is unlikely to be a good mix, its kind of one or the other. You might get away with a really clean guitar amp, but the Epi is not designed that way.


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Scott Gentzen
post Nov 16 2007, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 15 2007, 10:32 PM) *
No, not yet, and I probably wouldn't - the CTL is designed for clean amplification, it get its AMP sound form the modeling. Adding more Amp sound is unlikely to be a good mix, its kind of one or the other. You might get away with a really clean guitar amp, but the Epi is not designed that way.


Depends on what you're doing for though. Sometimes you might want something to sound hideous. I know I"m in the minority on that here at GMC but that's OK. smile.gif

Kurt Cobain ran a DS-2 into a SansAmp into various amp configurations...none of which were clean for amp modelling.

In answer to one of the questions in the first posting, here's something on Class A vs Class AB:
http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/te...s/d--01/12/2005


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Scott Gentzen
post Nov 16 2007, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 15 2007, 10:32 PM) *
No, not yet, and I probably wouldn't - the CTL is designed for clean amplification, it get its AMP sound form the modeling. Adding more Amp sound is unlikely to be a good mix, its kind of one or the other. You might get away with a really clean guitar amp, but the Epi is not designed that way.


Depends on what you're doing for though. Sometimes you might want something to sound hideous. I know I'm in the minority on that here at GMC but that's OK. smile.gif

Kurt Cobain ran a DS-2 into a SansAmp into various amp configurations...none of which were clean for amp modelling.


Image via http://www.kurtsequipment.com


In answer to one of the questions in the first posting, here's something on Class A vs Class AB:
http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/te...s/d--01/12/2005


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Goliath
post Nov 16 2007, 09:23 PM
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I completely overlooked just using the pod and picking up a cheap keyboard PA. This seems like the best way out, since I already have the pod.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 16 2007, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE (Scott Gentzen @ Nov 16 2007, 02:28 PM) *
Depends on what you're doing for though. Sometimes you might want something to sound hideous. I know I'm in the minority on that here at GMC but that's OK. smile.gif


Very true - if its a sound you want/like, knock yourself out smile.gif


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Hardtail
post Nov 17 2007, 10:35 AM
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QUOTE (Goliath @ Nov 16 2007, 03:23 PM) *
I completely overlooked just using the pod and picking up a cheap keyboard PA. This seems like the best way out, since I already have the pod.



If you like the POD then go this route.

Although, I bet I could get a similar quality sound from your current equipment. The Peavey Bandit 112 is a solid state amp which runs on a proprietary technology dubbed "Transtube". This was intended to provide tube-like saturation and solid-state reliability. Unfortunately the saturation failed miserably with most musicians but the solid state cleans are there.

I'd put money down that you were trying to get some distortion out of the Bandit and out of the POD which combined sounded like an amplified fart through a trucker's shortwave radio.

Try this before buying new gear.

Plug your guitar into the Bandit112 without any pedals or POD. Get the Bandit as loud as comfortable and back off of the amps distortion. The goal is to get it as clean as possible. Level out the EQ's as well and remove any Reverb. The amp should be dry and clean and set at a volume you want. THEN put your POD between your guitar and the Amp input. Don't plug it into the FX loops. Try it then and see if your getting good sounds.

Some things to keep in mind.
1) POD-to-Headphones will NEVER EVER EVER sound like ANY gear-to-speaker-to-ear setup. A primary reason why would simply be the way a 12 inch speaker changes air pressure differently then a teeny weeny headphone speaker. Now think about why 4x12's sound different than a 1x12 even with everything else remaining the same.
2) Because of 1 above you will always have to tweak your POD when running it through an amp to get the sound you want (which will inevitably be a little different than the headphone sound).
3) In the future I would recommend not dialing in specific sounds while using your headphones too much because you will never get that exact sound live. Instead treat headphones simply as a tool to practice with.
4) When using a single 10 or 12 inch speaker be sure the speaker is angled up and pointing directly at your face. TRUST me. If you are standing right in front of a 1x12 amp and the speaker is facing your legs you will hear a completely different quality of sound than if you were 15 feet away and the speaker was pointing at your face. This directional quality effect diminishes with the more speakers you have. A 4x12 cabinet with a 100 watt head will push so much volume it almost doesn't matter where you stand.

Good luck.

Hardtail


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