Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Don't Understand Why Guitarist Does This, Please Help
shellshock1911
post Nov 25 2007, 05:08 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 689
Joined: 26-March 07
From: Columbus, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 1.414



Ok, everytime I listen to a song I try to analyze the soloes a lot and understand why a certain artist plays a certain lick over a certain chord and whatnot, well anyway I was listening to Hangar 18 today and the fourth solo dumbfounded me.

He does this arpeggio over a B minor chord.

|--19p16-------------------------------16------|
|----------18-----------------------18----------|
|--------------19-16------16-19---------------|
|----------------------18------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|

So first of all I couldn't figure out what you would call this...the notes in it are B, Ab, F, D. Well that kinda looks like G7b9, but there is no G in that arpeggio. So, what would this be called, and why is it over B minor chord (which by the way isn't even in the key of D minor, which is the key of this song.)


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Nov 25 2007, 05:45 PM
Post #2


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



While im no theory expert, often times, especially in metal, guitarists will venture outside the key of the song to create a different sound, add a little tension, i think David did a lesson on this actually. Thats probably Friedman's solo, Ive seen him leave the key of a song before, temporarily though, in his solo stuff, and on a few Megadeth tunes.

This post has been edited by The Uncreator: Nov 25 2007, 05:46 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shellshock1911
post Nov 25 2007, 05:53 PM
Post #3


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 689
Joined: 26-March 07
From: Columbus, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 1.414



QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Nov 25 2007, 05:45 PM) *
While im no theory expert, often times, especially in metal, guitarists will venture outside the key of the song to create a different sound, add a little tension, i think David did a lesson on this actually. Thats probably Friedman's solo, Ive seen him leave the key of a song before, temporarily though, in his solo stuff, and on a few Megadeth tunes.


Yea, simply going out of key in a legato, alternate picking run or something is common, but I doubt anyone would play an out of key arpeggio over and out of key chord, it would sound really dissonant. But in this song it doesn't sound dissonant, thats why I'm trying to figure out how G7b9, or whatever it is called is related to B minor in the key of D minor.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DeepRoots
post Nov 25 2007, 05:56 PM
Post #4


Get to da Chopper!
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.700
Joined: 18-March 07
From: South Wales, UK
Member No.: 1.374



Thats a B diminished arpeggio/chord wink.gif which would sound pretty cool over a B minor chord-

I havent looked at this song in detail but i remember there being an extended solo section which is likely to have a key modulation in it somewhere- Perhaps that is why there is a B minor chord? Let us know if you crack it!

This post has been edited by DeepRoots: Nov 25 2007, 05:56 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shellshock1911
post Nov 25 2007, 06:14 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 689
Joined: 26-March 07
From: Columbus, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 1.414



QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Nov 25 2007, 05:56 PM) *
Thats a B diminished arpeggio/chord wink.gif which would sound pretty cool over a B minor chord-

I havent looked at this song in detail but i remember there being an extended solo section which is likely to have a key modulation in it somewhere- Perhaps that is why there is a B minor chord? Let us know if you crack it!


Ah, I see now, thx! But, I think it is just him going out of key. It is like a chromatic riff which sounds good usually when out of key, the root notes are like like A-Bb-B-Bb-A-Bb-B-C-A-Bb-B, and then instead of playing A again, he just does a sixteenth note Amaj scale run or somethjing.

This post has been edited by shellshock1911: Nov 25 2007, 06:16 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DeepRoots
post Nov 25 2007, 06:28 PM
Post #6


Get to da Chopper!
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.700
Joined: 18-March 07
From: South Wales, UK
Member No.: 1.374



QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Nov 25 2007, 05:14 PM) *
Ah, I see now, thx! But, I think it is just him going out of key. It is like a chromatic riff which sounds good usually when out of key, the root notes are like like A-Bb-B-Bb-A-Bb-B-C-A-Bb-B, and then instead of playing A again, he just does a sixteenth note Amaj scale run or somethjing.


I had a quick look at a tab on UG...

Yeh you can throw in a riff that assends/descends chromatically wherever in metal for a bit of flavour to the song. I wouldnt really call this out of key as it implies theyve messed up or something but it definitely doesnt belong to just one scale. For that section of the solo- he actually starts each bar/measure of the mini solo with the same note as the note in the bass of the chord/riff being played below it. When he starts that B diminshed arpeggio, the section of the riff being played below it contains a B and a D (and the second B an octave higher) so playing a B diminshed over it which like you said contains the notes B, Ab, F, D, there are no conflicting notes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
exorcyze
post Nov 26 2007, 05:31 PM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 144
Joined: 11-July 07
Member No.: 2.290



Also, the scales are basically guidelines for what can sound good - but not always absolute. I believe that notes outside of the scale are usually called "passing tones" - and are typically used to add tension or a little spice. The ears are always the final judgement on what works and what doesn't - regardless of the "scales" being used. =)

( Someone correct me if I'm wrong! )


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 27 2007, 12:34 AM
Post #8


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (exorcyze @ Nov 26 2007, 11:31 AM) *
Also, the scales are basically guidelines for what can sound good - but not always absolute. I believe that notes outside of the scale are usually called "passing tones" - and are typically used to add tension or a little spice. The ears are always the final judgement on what works and what doesn't - regardless of the "scales" being used. =)

( Someone correct me if I'm wrong! )


You're wrong! (Only joking), I couldn't agree more - theory and scales are great to explain what you played after you played it and can even guide you, but the final truth is whether or not you think it sounds good.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Lavendell
post Nov 27 2007, 08:48 AM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.537
Joined: 27-May 07
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Member No.: 1.927



QUOTE (exorcyze @ Nov 26 2007, 05:31 PM) *
The ears are always the final judgement on what works and what doesn't - regardless of the "scales" being used. =)

+1 smile.gif


--------------------
I use Elixir® Strings

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st August 2017 - 01:58 AM