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> Interesting Research About Talent.
David.C.Bond
post Dec 6 2007, 01:10 AM
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Ace discussion. Did anyone manage to get hold of the article itself? (I referenced it earlier) Any thoughts?


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Vinod Saranga
post Dec 6 2007, 08:25 AM
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QUOTE (botoxfox @ Dec 2 2007, 04:48 PM) *
I'm not surprised. I guess the only musical "talent" you can have is absolute pitch...


Perfect pitch also can be developed as same as relative pitch


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Viz
post Dec 10 2007, 12:48 AM
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I've done a few basic biology courses at university, nothing advanced; but I have come across studies which might be of interest. When we say, for example, that alcohol abuse is inherited it has no relation to this topic, since it comes down to a "programming defect" (defect genes, though the exact gene is get to be identified).

I think the scientific world is quite confident that there are no such things as "music genes" or "talent genes" in general for that matter. So exactly where that talent would "store" itself in the brain is quite difficult to imagine; hence I don't think there are such things as talent, but only result from training and interaction with music from an very early age (perhaps even from the womb) granted, there is much we don't know about the brain, but the general picture is there, and without know to much about it, I'd say we will never find a gene for talent there.

This post has been edited by Viz: Dec 10 2007, 12:48 AM
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stratman33
post Dec 10 2007, 02:13 AM
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i actually do believe in natural talent.my family has a musical background and when i started at 11 (im 13 now), guitar sorta just clicked.


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JVM
post Dec 10 2007, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE (stratman33 @ Dec 9 2007, 01:13 PM) *
i actually do believe in natural talent.my family has a musical background and when i started at 11 (im 13 now), guitar sorta just clicked.


But it could be easily argued that when you were born you had no natural talent, you only grew that because you lived with a musical family. Hearing your family play music and all that, you probably got taught certain things offhandedly the same way we get taught our first language - which is a combination of sound/vision association among other things. I'm kind of in the no such thing as natural talent camp.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 10 2007, 02:37 AM
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myabe not talent per se, but a predisposition for certain activities that just happens to favour music maybe?


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Muris Varajic
post Dec 10 2007, 10:16 AM
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Perfect pitch is probably the only thing I can think of as a talent atm. smile.gif
And the talent we are speak of often,I would can it rather motivation or passion,
you can waste 5 years in practicing for wrong goal,per example to amaze someone,
but if you do it to amaze yourself and to achieve something for you,
from pure hobby and amateurism it becomes profession and you gain credits as talented and gifted,
my way of seeing these thing.

Great topic tho!! smile.gif


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Chris Evans
post Dec 10 2007, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 10 2007, 01:37 AM) *
myabe not talent per se, but a predisposition for certain activities that just happens to favour music maybe?


nice .. short, sweet and to the point, I`d go along with the predisposition theory


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David.C.Bond
post Dec 10 2007, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 10 2007, 01:37 AM) *
myabe not talent per se, but a predisposition for certain activities that just happens to favour music maybe?


Interesting point. I also think a self-fullfilling prophecy may be at work, if your parents and siblings have been successful musically, the pressure is on you to achieve well also, hence giving you extra motivation.


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mattacuk
post Dec 10 2007, 12:02 PM
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Haveing started my musical journey right here at GMC, I really dont know if I belive in natural talent. I feel I have picked guitar pretty quickly in just one year. My music teacher told me I have natural talent , but he doesent know Ive been useing GMC 3 hours a day for the past year tongue.gif

If you play well infront of a group of people, there first reaction is that your naturally talented because they have no idea of your background.

I am certain many of the top guitarist today work there way to it. For example if you take someone like Paul Gilbert he says that for ages he picked with all down strokes and useing just his middle finger laugh.gif this is because he thought his teacher told him to do it that way. But after going to a great teacher he soon progressed to awsomeness.

That was just one example of course , but im sure that with the right structure and lessons and one of use can be a great player without a shadow of a doubt.

Lucky for us we have GMC eh ? wink.gif


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Nobody
post Dec 11 2007, 03:20 AM
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Great discucssion!
Not that I'm much into this stuff but my opinion is that we shouldn't think of talent as of something supernatural that gives the blessed ones great advantages.
I do believe in talent and I am sure that all of us have it. For me I can see that I have talent but it's only in getting better technically. I have many friends with which we compare progress because we've started playing around the same time and I can tell that everyone has his own talent that helps him in some way. I can say I am technically better than all of them and it doesn't cost me any effort to get this, but in all other things I have to put hard work because i have no "natural" sense of time, or some great composing skills or a great ear. I sucked at all these things but this just makes me work harder at them.
On the other side an ex-band member, a friend of mine has some supernatural sense of time. I've asked if it's some kind of a fix-idea to him to develop it, and he said that he hasn't put any effort in it. But he has some bigger than the ordinary problems with developing technique. Maybe it's because he isn't focusing enough or it's just the thing that is very hard for him.

Someone also mentioned Mozart. Yes we know that he had a great talent. I would add to this "in composing". Who knows how many sleepless nights have passed until he got the other things that make you a virtuoso?..

I should add that I disagree with the opinion "you should find your instrument. Everyone is good at one." Well.. I don't think so. Everyone can be good at anything. If I had to do what I'm best in, i would probably be a professional footbag player, or tennis player or bowling.. Those kind of things were all very easy for me. Especially the footbag. In no time i was playing far better than anyone I knew and several months later I played with the best footbag players in Bulgaria several times a week. Then I touched a guitar. I saw what is in my heart and I gave up on everything so that I could play as much as I can(even dumped my girlfriend after an almost 2 years relationship). That was because it was very hard for me, but I wanted to be good at it. Except for the easy develop of technique I could be considered not untalented but anti-talented, and I had some hard times while everyone telling me how much I suck and how I should do the things I'm good at. Well I didn't.
Now many people consider me talented because I'm progressing fast(due to this site also). But I remember all those depressions when everyone(friends, parents and etc.) was repeating how much I suck. So there is talent but it's a thing that isn't important. Yes it can spare you some time but hey we're not 70 years old. We have enough time. It's all about dedication!

Cheers,
Hristian

P.S. again one of those long posts. How I wish earlier i had developed the talent of saying much with few words wink.gif


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giuseppe
post Dec 11 2007, 03:33 AM
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that research is very interesting,

personally i believe in hard work all the way, i belive in talent however the word talent to me is just being able to pick things up a little faster, does that mean you cant be pro without talent? OF COURSE NOT!! biggrin.gif


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coffeeman
post Dec 11 2007, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Dec 10 2007, 04:16 AM) *
Perfect pitch is probably the only thing I can think of as a talent atm. smile.gif
And the talent we are speak of often,I would can it rather motivation or passion,
you can waste 5 years in practicing for wrong goal,per example to amaze someone,
but if you do it to amaze yourself and to achieve something for you,
from pure hobby and amateurism it becomes profession and you gain credits as talented and gifted,
my way of seeing these thing.

Great topic tho!! smile.gif


You said it Muris , it's not only hard work , its setting the right goal and working with passion(with the heart) to achieve it. And this happends not only with music it happends with a lot of things in life. Two persons can work on the same thing for a while but only the one with the true motivation and passion will succeed. So I say it's never too late , I do believe I can be a great guitarrist I just have to play with my heart and have a clear image of what I want as a guitar player and the "talent" will come.


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Zephyr
post Dec 14 2007, 05:22 AM
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I believe that those who are meant to be be musicians are given natural talent, but that doesn't mean anything if they don't practice!

What I mean by "natural talent" here is not that one musician is naturally better than another, but we all have different skills and gifts. Some people can get into music, take all the lessons, and never get a thing out of it, while others can pick up a guitar and make beautiful music without any musical education at all. Practice is important if you feel you are intended to be a musician, but I don't think that this is true for everyone... I believe that everyone has a different purpose in life, if everyone on the planet was a guitar player, it would be fun, but I don't think it would work out in the long run... biggrin.gif

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David.C.Bond
post Dec 14 2007, 10:24 AM
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The problem with a term such as 'talent' is that it is so abstract that there's no scientific way of proving or disproving its existence.


P.s my 200th post!


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 14 2007, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE (David.C.Bond @ Dec 14 2007, 04:24 AM) *
P.s my 200th post!


Congrats smile.gif


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Paul Coutts
post Dec 15 2007, 11:57 AM
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I don't believe too much in talent. I think people mistake talent for just being a word to describe someone's inate desire to learn something. People at school call me talented all the time, but I'm really not. Just hard work and time. And they think it's talent cause I'm doing something they can't.
These kids who learn amazing stuff at really young ages don't have something we don't. They just grew up knowing (or learned) how to learn. That's all.
If everyone knew the proper correct way to learn, we'd all be amazing. Right now, we just have guesses and ideas on what the best way to learn is. We still only know 10% of our brains.
Learning is entirely about learning how to learn.


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