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> This Is Horrible
buckjones
post Dec 8 2007, 06:51 AM
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Nicely said fkalich!! The chinese culture is rich in many things unfortunately like you said there is just as much horrific things that are happening that nobody is doing.


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JCJXXL
post Dec 8 2007, 06:52 AM
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I am so not going to watch this.
There is no excuse for animal cruelty/torture/execution at all.
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shammy
post Dec 8 2007, 06:58 AM
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Just ruined the great energy I had flowing, next time I will not even look at a post labeled like this.
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Hemlok
post Dec 8 2007, 07:01 AM
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Well there are alot of things that go on in the world, I am not being ignorant of these things but I just don't want to see them on an internet video. Rape, murder, road accidents, I don't need to see a video or see it first hand to know it goes on.

QUOTE (shammy @ Dec 8 2007, 01:58 PM) *
Just ruined the great energy I had flowing, next time I will not even look at a post labeled like this.


Likewise.

QUOTE (Unleash-The-Shred @ Dec 8 2007, 01:42 PM) *
Is that better? I posted a warning.


Yes, it is better.

To be honest I for some reason when coming into the thread thought this was something to do with a guitar.

This post has been edited by Hemlok: Dec 8 2007, 07:07 AM


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fkalich
post Dec 8 2007, 07:35 AM
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QUOTE (Unleash-The-Shred @ Dec 7 2007, 11:50 PM) *
I'm not trying to shock people with this. But you do have a good point of view on all of it, I like your response very much.


You have not picked up on my sarcasm yet. Andrew is good at picking up on that right off.

I expect that a moderator will lock this thread as soon as one sees it. But I personally have a soft spot for animals, particularly domestic animals, so I don't mind. Now politics or religion, I would not want to hear about that. Animal protection, I always like to hear about that.
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fkalich
post Dec 8 2007, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (buckjones @ Dec 7 2007, 11:51 PM) *
Nicely said fkalich!! The chinese culture is rich in many things unfortunately like you said there is just as much horrific things that are happening that nobody is doing.



Only a few things you have to remember about Chinese people. The food thing. For example lunch. We can be casual about that, say "oh, lets keep working and skip lunch". In my experience, my Chinese friends considered that absolutely unacceptable. The food thing goes further, very big part of the culture, and they will admit that.

But in general, in my experience, they were very tolerant of people. Very warm, and gracious. Maybe they considered me wacky, but that was ok with them. Now I doubt they wanted their children to be like me, but it was ok that I was wacky, no problem with that.
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RobM
post Dec 8 2007, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (Xranthoius @ Dec 8 2007, 12:02 AM) *
+1 for that.... I cant say how bad this is!!!...... I'm so pissed off at those people


Yup, I agree 100% on that. No one should be allowed to do that to another living thing without it happening to them in return. Human beings have to eat and cows, chickens etc have been selected as our meat of choice. No one should be allowed to kill anything just for it's fur. In this day and age we don't need it to keep us warm, there are far better and cheaper materials out there for that.

To kill a dog and/or cat just for the fur should be criminal world wide! I'd like to meet the people who starred in this video!


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Unleash-The-Shre...
post Dec 8 2007, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 8 2007, 12:46 AM) *
Correct, we don't want to shock people by showing them what actually goes on in the world.

I don't mind this. I assume this is in Asia, probably China. One of the reasons I am boycotting all interest in the Olympics next year. The things that go on over there, and nobody does a thing about them.

My brother in law was there last year on business, he said he saw them clubbing dogs to death on the street.

Don't get me wrong, I worked with Chinese people for 5 years. And I love the culture. This is not the culture, this is just a manifestation of a corrupt and moral bankrupt government over there.
edit: Of course this is not in the US. We can't be proud of everything here, but we can be proud of our protection of animal welfare. A football player just had his career destroyed, and he was sent to federal prison for dog fighting.

get on the mailing list of the Humane Society, everything that is good that happens, they are involved. They get the new legislation through, very powerful lobby. And they also work on international issues.


How is this sarcasm???
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fkalich
post Dec 8 2007, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Unleash-The-Shred @ Dec 8 2007, 03:04 AM) *
How is this sarcasm???


only the first line, where I wrote "Correct, we don't want to shock people by showing them what actually goes on in the world." Maybe you saw that I was being sarcastic, I got the impression that you thought I was serious on that line.

This fur trade has been driven by demand. In the US there have been laws on the books for 7 years I think against this. Europe has acted also recently. However I think that is a problem with the EU, kind of hard to get some things done with so many parties involved. But enforcement can be difficult, they try to disguise it as some other fur.

The simple solution to me is a world wide ban on all fur, or any kind. There is no need, synthetics are now warmer, time to stop this unnecessary practice. I don't mind people hunting for non protected species. As predators are largely no longer around, that is the only way the populations such as for deer stay in check (other than by starvation). But if you kill it, you should eat it, immoral to harm animals unless you eat them, in my view.

In some places they eat some animals that are really not domesticated for that. These are typically a special breed. For example, in Slovenia (where my ancestors come from) they eat horse, a special type. And in Korea they have a special breed of dog. I consider that immoral personally, the relationship of the domestic dog and horse was not established on food, and to me this is taking advantage of a trust between them and us. It is not necessary, I would not eat it, and I sort of disrespected my Brother for eating horse when he visited Slovenia recently.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Dec 8 2007, 10:34 AM
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Unleash-The-Shre...
post Dec 8 2007, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 8 2007, 04:26 AM) *
only the first line, where I wrote "Correct, we don't want to shock people by showing them what actually goes on in the world." Maybe you saw that I was being sarcastic, I got the impression that you thought I was serious on that line.

This fur trade has been driven by demand. In the US there have been laws on the books for 7 years I think against this. Europe has acted also recently. However I think that is a problem with the EU, kind of hard to get some things done with so many parties involved. But enforcement can be difficult, they try to disguise it as some other fur.

The simple solution to me is a world wide ban on all fur, or any kind. There is no need, synthetics are now warmer, time to stop this unnecessary practice. I don't mind people hunting for non protected species. As predators are largely no longer around, that is the only way the populations such as for deer stay in check (other than by starvation). But if you kill it, you should eat it, immoral to harm these animals unless you eat it, in my view.


Oh, I thought you were saying the whole thing was sarcasm.
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Dec 8 2007, 11:54 AM
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As a mod I've not locked (or deleted) the thread as it does not contravene the posting rules, in my opinion, in spite of the video being undoubtedly upsetting and graphic. I have however increased Unleash's warning to make it more explicit about the content. At present the posts on the thread have been civil and respectful towards each other - lets try to keep it that way guys.

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Unleash-The-Shre...
post Dec 8 2007, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Dec 8 2007, 05:54 AM) *
As a mod I've not locked (or deleted) the thread as it does not contravene the posting rules, in my opinion, in spite of the video being undoubtedly upsetting and graphic. I have however increased Unleash's warning to make it more explicit about the content. At present the posts on the thread have been civil and respectful towards each other - lets try to keep it that way guys.

Cheers,
Tony


Thanks Tony.
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Chris Evans
post Dec 8 2007, 12:13 PM
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sickened


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Dec 8 2007, 12:16 PM
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On a personal note - and with my mod hat firmly off - I recently watched a BBC Panorama program about illegal dog fighting in the UK. As upsetting as I found it I watched it in its entirety as I attended a funeral some weeks back of the 9 year old daughter of a friend who had died after being savaged by a 'fighting dog' that attacked her whilst she was playing in her garden during the Summer. Her parents were told by the police that it would be difficult for them to do anything without video evidence. The dog by the way has not been 'put down' but is still walked daily by its owners through the same neighborhood - often directly past the front door of my friend's house - and has since attacked other dogs and an adult.

So as a possible answer to those who have asked why the video could be filmed and the makers do nothing about the cruelty witnesses - one reason may be to provide video documented evidence that can then be presented to the respective authorities.


As much as I find the content of this video, and the Panorama program, difficult to watch and distasteful I tend to agree with fkalich's comment (and sympathise with his use of sarcasm on this occasion) - there are some issues where it may help for the authorities to be shocked out of their possible complacency.

Cheers,
Tony


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David.C.Bond
post Dec 8 2007, 12:28 PM
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I'm certainly not going to watch that, judging from your responses it wouldn't be a nice way to start my day.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 8 2007, 01:17 PM
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Me either - and I would add that I am all for people being made aware of the terrible truths of the world, but why on a Guitar site? We're here to practice guitar, not to be shocked into moral outrage.

As a mod I totally agree with Tony's decision, but personally I'd rather not see stuff like this at GMC - there are other websites better suited to this kind of content.


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David.C.Bond
post Dec 8 2007, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 8 2007, 12:17 PM) *
Me either - and I would add that I am all for people being made aware of the terrible truths of the world, but why on a Guitar site? We're here to practice guitar, not to be shocked into moral outrage.

As a mod I totally agree with Tony's decision, but personally I'd rather not see stuff like this at GMC - there are other websites better suited to this kind of content.


Hear, hear. Well said Andrew.


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Chris Evans
post Dec 8 2007, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 8 2007, 12:17 PM) *
Me either - and I would add that I am all for people being made aware of the terrible truths of the world, but why on a Guitar site? We're here to practice guitar, not to be shocked into moral outrage.

As a mod I totally agree with Tony's decision, but personally I'd rather not see stuff like this at GMC - there are other websites better suited to this kind of content.


Totally, I switched my PC on this morning and was the first post I looked at, then ... went downstairs to get it out of my head.


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Xranthoius
post Dec 8 2007, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 8 2007, 06:17 AM) *
Me either - and I would add that I am all for people being made aware of the terrible truths of the world, but why on a Guitar site? We're here to practice guitar, not to be shocked into moral outrage.

As a mod I totally agree with Tony's decision, but personally I'd rather not see stuff like this at GMC - there are other websites better suited to this kind of content.

Good choice... It totally ruined my mood. I feel so horrible and helpless. I have a dog and just couldn't imagin if someone did that do her...


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Alucard
post Dec 8 2007, 05:34 PM
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Disgusting, those men are not men at all since it takes them and a few of their buddies to kill a helpless cat or dog.


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