Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Basic And Extended Chords
GMC Forum > Discussion Boards > VINTAGE GMC > Community Activities and Tutorials > Ask an Instructor > More instructors > Muris Varajic > Theory (Muris)
Pages: 1, 2
eddiecat
Hello Muris,
I was studying Andrew's extended chords lesson but the added notes part is still missing.
I know there are 9th, 11th and 13th chords,
but I also bumped into add9, add11 and add13 chords.
Now, the first three are obtained adding thirds to a 7th chord, right?
But what happens with those add chords?
Do you simply "add" a 9th, or 11th or 13th? And if so, to what?
Hope this makes sense...
Thank you
Muris Varajic
Good question Eddie.

9th chord contains 7th inside,it's called 9th chord cause 9th is the higher note.
Same with 11th,it has 7th,9th and 11th.
Same thing with 13th as well,we simply build it using thirds and up the scale.
Of course,ALL these chords have root,3rd and 5th.
You're probably asking,how to play all those notes together,I have only 6 strings?
Well,we kick out some notes,usually 5th,sometimes even 3rd. wink.gif

Add chords,it means that we simply add 9th,11th or 13th,whatever.
We add it on main chord which has root,3rd and 5th.
Per example,G11 chord has notes G,B,D,F,A and C(notice that minor 7th interval is displayed as 7th,
major 7th would be maj7,F#)
And Gadd11 would be, G,B,D and right onto C,no 7th and 9th between.
Hope this clears things a bit. smile.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 1 2008, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good question Eddie.

9th chord contains 7th inside,it's called 9th chord cause 9th is the higher note.
Same with 11th,it has 7th,9th and 11th.
Same thing with 13th as well,we simply build it using thirds and up the scale.
Of course,ALL these chords have root,3rd and 5th.
You're probably asking,how to play all those notes together,I have only 6 strings?
Well,we kick out some notes,usually 5th,sometimes even 3rd. wink.gif

Add chords,it means that we simply add 9th,11th or 13th,whatever.
We add it on main chord which has root,3rd and 5th.
Per example,G11 chord has notes G,B,D,F,A and C(notice that minor 7th interval is displayed as 7th,
major 7th would be maj7,F#)
And Gadd11 would be, G,B,D and right onto C,no 7th and 9th between.
Hope this clears things a bit. smile.gif


Thank you Muris,
this clears a lot...
One more question: the 7th interval is always minor (unless specified) for 9, 11,and 13 major chords?
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (eddiecat @ Feb 1 2008, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you Muris,
this clears a lot...
One more question: the 7th interval is always minor (unless specified) for 9, 11,and 13 major chords?


When you see maj7th,then it's major 7th interval.
Per exmaple,G7/9 and Gmaj7/9.
You can write this G7/9 as G9 only cause minor 7th is included(different rules/schools)
but if its major 7th then you have to write it extra.
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 1 2008, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When you see maj7th,then it's major 7th interval.
Per exmaple,G7/9 and Gmaj7/9.
You can write this G7/9 as G9 only cause minor 7th is included(different rules/schools)
but if its major 7th then you have to write it extra.


Perfect, got it! And the same applies for minor chords, right?
Very kind of you.
Muris Varajic
Yep,same rules,only opposite to 7th,major 3rd is included,minor needs to be written extra
but you know that already I'm sure. wink.gif

You're welcome Eddie. smile.gif
Andrew Cockburn
Hi Eddie - looks like I will have to write this lesson soon smile.gif
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Feb 2 2008, 03:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Eddie - looks like I will have to write this lesson soon smile.gif


Ohh,I'm sure you already wrote it somewhere Andrew,
man sometimes forgets his own work!! smile.gif
Andrew Cockburn
Well, when you get as old bent and gray as me, sometimes it is hard to remember laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Feb 2 2008, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, when you get as old bent and gray as me, sometimes it is hard to remember laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


laugh.gif
Well,looking at your lessons AND amp building progress,
I would say you have many more productive years ahead. wink.gif
Andrew Cockburn
Phew, its a relief to hear you say so Muris - I thought I was consigned to the scrap heap for a while smile.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Feb 2 2008, 03:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Eddie - looks like I will have to write this lesson soon smile.gif


Didn't mean bad, Andrew! Good morning, BTW. smile.gif
It's just that I was studying your extended chords lesson
and was eager to understand the difference between plain 9, 11, 13 and "adds".
I saw you on the Xmas video and you don't look bent and grey to me,
so don't find excuses, you lazy instructor! laugh.gif
Your theory board is amazing and makes music theory so much fun
that plese take ALL the time you need to write your new lessons down
as long as you keep up the great quality! Thank you always...

For Muris: yesterday's explanations were just perfect. Thank you.

Eddie
Andrew Cockburn
Heh, thanks Eddie, glad you like them smile.gif I will write that lesson next though, I promise (even though Muris did a great job of explaining!)
eddiecat
Hy Muris, hope all is well.
My question here is very simple:
let's take a 9, 11, 13 chord, they are called like that
because the 9th, 11th, 13th are the highest note.
But are they also ALWAYS the highest note played on the guitar?
I hope you see my point.
Thank you.
Cheers
Eddie
Muris Varajic
Usually they are highest,per example if you play 9th in octave lower you'd get 2nd,
11th would be 4th,13th'd be 6th etc.
In other words,9th should be 9 degrees from the root while some other notes
might be higher than the 9th,per example 3rd,5th etc,depends of grip.
But if you pull 9th an octave lower it'd be 2nd and you'll be missing the sound of 9th,
that's the deal. smile.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 3 2008, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Usually they are highest,per example if you play 9th in octave lower you'd get 2nd,
11th would be 4th,13th'd be 6th etc.
In other words,9th should be 9 degrees from the root while some other notes
might be higher than the 9th,per example 3rd,5th etc,depends of grip.
But if you pull 9th an octave lower it'd be 2nd and you'll be missing the sound of 9th,
that's the deal. smile.gif


Perfect!
I start to find harmony very interesting...
Thank you
Muris Varajic
You're welcome Eddie,glad you're interested into theory! smile.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 3 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're welcome Eddie,glad you're interested into theory! smile.gif


Ok, I know I might be a bugger,
but I was wondering:
when it comes to chords do you do them automatically (you memorised shapes)
or do you actually "build" them "thinking" of the relationship between notes?
Do you understand what I mean? dry.gif
Also, do you always use all the six strings (apart from powerchords)?
And if not, why?
Thank you
Eddie
Muris Varajic
I combine shapes I've learned before and I make them "in a walk" using proper notes.
Depends of chord and sound to determine now many strings I'd use for chord.
Sometimes it's 3,4,5,6 including skipping here and there,
per example I play lower note(usually root) on low E or A
and I do rest of the chord on top 3 strings,sort of things,no strict rule. smile.gif

Good practice is to play whole progression using one position,3 or 4 frets,
that'll help you understanding chords and their relations. wink.gif
eddiecat
Good practice is to play whole progression using one position,3 or 4 frets,
that'll help you understanding chords and their relations. wink.gif
[/quote]

This is a great hint!!! blink.gif
What a wonderful exercise...
Got it!

Thanx
Muris Varajic
You're welcome Eddie biggrin.gif
Andrew Cockburn
Hey Eddie & Muris - you guys inspired me to write my latest chords lesson smile.gif

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=11531
Muris Varajic
Hey hey,lesson is great,I'm sure many members will benefit A LOT from it,
thumbs up Andrew,good job!! biggrin.gif
Andrew Cockburn
Thanks Muris!
eddiecat
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Feb 4 2008, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Muris!


Feels nice to have inspired someone.
Usually the only one inspired by me is my dog
when I take him for a walk and he does what he needs to! laugh.gif
Great lesson Andrew,
now it's even clearer!

Thank you very much,
Eddie
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (eddiecat @ Feb 4 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Feels nice to have inspired someone.
Usually the only one inspired by me is my dog
when I take him for a walk and he does what he needs to! laugh.gif
Great lesson Andrew,
now it's even clearer!

Thank you very much,
Eddie


laugh.gif Doggy,doggy biggrin.gif
eddiecat
Hello Muris,
I hope you're doing fine with your new album,
and I really hope you'll be satisfied with the result.
I'm sure it will come out great!

My question: I was trying to do the exercise you suggested,
creating chords in the same position on the fretboard.
It's not easy, and it takes long to figure out the notes,
but how do I decide what notes to leave out
when it comes to extended chords and chords in general?
I hope you understand my question.

All the best and good luck with your recordings.
Eddie
Muris Varajic
I was actually thinking of basic chords Eddie,majors and minors.
With extended ones it's another story but main thing is to play
root note and the note that clarifies it,9th,11th etc.
You you can leave out 5th,3rd etc,depends of the grip. smile.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 13 2008, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was actually thinking of basic chords Eddie,majors and minors.
With extended ones it's another story but main thing is to play
root note and the note that clarifies it,9th,11th etc.
You you can leave out 5th,3rd etc,depends of the grip. smile.gif


Oh, ok! Good to know!
I was starting to get a little depressed!
I'll just stick to majors and minors then...
BTW, I'm working on your contest. wink.gif
Thanks!

Bye
Muris Varajic
That's great Eddie,I'm sure your take will be quite interesting!! smile.gif

I know that cause you did some nice improvisations over my lessons so far. biggrin.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 14 2008, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's great Eddie,I'm sure your take will be quite interesting!! smile.gif

I know that cause you did some nice improvisations over my lessons so far. biggrin.gif


Thank you! Wow! I'll do my best! rolleyes.gif

One question: can you edit the topic title and change it to "basic and extended chords"?
I'm asking you this because I don't want to start too many threads (I'm afraid to get lost)
and I would like to post here all my questions about chords in general,
a bit like my "4 basic scales" thread.
If you can't I'll just start a "basic chords" thread.

Thank you.
Muris Varajic
Done. wink.gif

I see you're lot into theory lately Eddie,I'm damn glad!! biggrin.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 14 2008, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Done. wink.gif

I see you're lot into theory lately Eddie,I'm damn glad!! biggrin.gif


Hy Muris, your Mixo Riffing is great! I'm really loving it, and it's great for my timing!
Now to chords: I'm trying to do your 1 position chords exercise
and I was wondering, do you think it's also a good idea
to play different chords and to try to get used to the sound of them?
I did a little backing track with drums and only a bass in C (root+5th, without 3rd)
and I played C and Cmin all the time and I am getting used to the "sound" of these.
Do you think it's a good idea to just play chords
and trying to memorise the soud of them?
Also, is there a reason why you left out the 5th of E min in the Mixo riffing?

Thank you

Eddie
Muris Varajic
It's always good to play chords alone Eddie,why not. smile.gif
Remember one thing,whatever you're playing=you're learning something.
Just keep it up. wink.gif

About that "croped" Em7.
It's Em7 tho,not just Em,right? blink.gif
So,it's classic "rocking" grip for min7 chord,
root-(5th out)-min7th and min 3rd(in octave).
It's classic grip when you have some distortion ON,
adding 5th would make some mess,try it and you'll see.
With 5th inside you have one 3rd interval(from 5th to 7th)
and usually it doesn't come out nicely with on distorted sounds.

But if you're using clean sound,well,that's another story,
feel free to play as many 3rds as you like. smile.gif
eddiecat
[quote name='Muris' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:26 AM' post='141333']
It's always good to play chords alone Eddie,why not. smile.gif
Remember one thing,whatever you're playing=you're learning something.
Just keep it up. wink.gif

About that "croped" Em7.
It's Em7 tho,not just Em,right? blink.gif


Oh, yes! Emin7 because of the note D!
And you are right (of course), I tried playing the 5th too
with distortion and it was really messy!
But clean it's beautiful!
Thank you

I'll be back soon with more chords questions!

eddiecat
Hy Muris, here's my second post this morning! dry.gif
As you know I'm doing your Mixo riff lesson
and I came up with this: Click to view attachment

Now, trying to see what note it is (it's the last in the riff)
I saw that it is a minor 3rd, and not a major 3rd like in the Mixo mode.
Now, with a power chord no problems, since it doesn't have a 3rd,
but if I was to strum along would I have to shift briefly from A7 to A min?
Or are there other chords to highlight that minor 3rd?
And on the G part, could I also play a Gmaj7 because of the F# in the riff?
And a bit off topic, why does that note sound good to me even if the minor 3rd is out of scale?

Hope you see my point.
Cheers
Muris Varajic
This is sort of mix of A Mixolydian and A Dorian. smile.gif

You play C# on A string 4th fret and then C on G string 5th fret.
Nothing wrong here,it's sounds damn rockin'. wink.gif
And the only difference between Mixolyidian and Dorian is the 3rd btw.
So you can shift between major and minor 3rd without making lot of mess,
if you do it wisely of course.
Sometimes you can use C as a passing note to C#,try that one as well.
Gmaj7 chord is included in both A Mixo and A Dorian,nothing wrong in there too. smile.gif
eddiecat
Hy Muris, hope all is well...
I was practicing 7th chords,
and I came up with a simple progression that I like very much:
it's Amaj7, Amaj7, Fmaj7, Cmaj7...
I did a little BT and played A ionian over Amaj7
and then C ionian over Fmaj7 and Cmaj7. Anything wrong?
Could you please tell me what scales and why
you would use over such a progression?
Thank you.
Eddie
Muris Varajic
Hello Eddie. smile.gif

I see you're on some theory boost,you've started to combine keys,modulations,well done!!
So with Amaj7 you're in key of A( A Ionian works perfect),
and with Fmaj7 and Cmaj7 you're in key of C,4th and first degrees (C Ionian is perfect here).
Your progression is Amaj7-Amaj7-Fmaj7-Cmaj7.
Now try with using Fmaj7 instead of Cmaj7 but still use C Ionian(A Aeolian) over it.
See/hear the result and share your thoughts with me. smile.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 23 2008, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello Eddie. smile.gif

I see you're on some theory boost,you've started to combine keys,modulations,well done!!
So with Amaj7 you're in key of A( A Ionian works perfect),
and with Fmaj7 and Cmaj7 you're in key of C,4th and first degrees (C Ionian is perfect here).
Your progression is Amaj7-Amaj7-Fmaj7-Cmaj7.
Now try with using Fmaj7 instead of Cmaj7 but still use C Ionian(A Aeolian) over it.
See/hear the result and share your thoughts with me. smile.gif


Hy Muris, so here I am with my impression of the C Ionian (A Aeolian)
over the new progression:
at first I didn't notice anything while playing,
but then I started feeling that something was somehow missing,
that it didn't resolve, or close...
So I said to myself: the first progression "closed" in C,
but this time it closes in F, so let's try keeping C Ionian over the first Fmaj7
and then let's modulate to F Ionian (C mixolydian (5th degree of F) or A Phrygian (3rd degree of F))
letting the Bb get heard and let's see what happens.
To me it sounded good, especially if using the Bb at the end before returning to A Ionian.
Does it make sense? Please tell me if this choice is wrong!!!
Thank you, Eddie
Muris Varajic
That's another cool progression and scale choice there Eddie,
as long as it sounds ok,you're on good track. smile.gif
You said it well,staying on F doesn't resolve the piece,
gives it more tension. wink.gif
eddiecat
Ok Muris, this is just an idea of what we talked about.
I played A Ionian over the Amaj7 chord
and then C Ionian over the Fmaj chord but modulating at the end in F Ionian.
Is it correct? blink.gif
Thank you. Eddie
Muris Varajic
I would prefer to say in C Ionian over Fmaj7,that Bb adds some de-stability to whole sound imho.
But I can not say that it's wrong or correct,
music theory is there just to explain what we are playing,that's all. smile.gif
If you like it,you keep it,that's your music Eddie. wink.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 24 2008, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would prefer to say in C Ionian over Fmaj7,that Bb adds some de-stability to whole sound imho.
But I can not say that it's wrong or correct,
music theory is there just to explain what we are playing,that's all. smile.gif
If you like it,you keep it,that's your music Eddie. wink.gif


I see what you mean with that Bb, and listening to it now I think you are right,
it would be better to stick to C Ionian.
So, in other words, the scale we choose to use
on a given chord depends on our taste?
I mean, in this case the second half plays an Fmaj7 with an F in the bass,
so in theory both F Ionian (I) and C Ionian (IV) would be "correct" or "possible", right?
So is it just up to our taste which one we choose?
Thank you.

Oh! I almost forgot to ask you: why did you suggest
that I replace that C maj7 with an Fmaj7?
Was there something particular you wanted me to notice?
Cheers
Muris Varajic
Just like that,you fit it to your taste,that's all about music. smile.gif

I think I answered to that Cmaj7 question above somewhere.
Cmaj7 kind a resolves it while with Fmaj7 is sounds more smooth,kind of.
Actually it sounds more Lydian,to be precise. biggrin.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 24 2008, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just like that,you fit it to your taste,that's all about music. smile.gif

I think I answered to that Cmaj7 question above somewhere.
Cmaj7 kind a resolves it while with Fmaj7 is sounds more smooth,kind of.
Actually it sounds more Lydian,to be precise. biggrin.gif


Oooh! I think I got it!
When I play C Ionian over those two Fmaj7 chords with the bass in F
as a matter of fact I'm playing F Lydian! (they share the same notes)
Right?

Cheers,
Eddie
Muris Varajic
Yep,that's F Lydian,masked as C Ionian. wink.gif
eddiecat
QUOTE (Muris @ Feb 24 2008, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep,that's F Lydian,masked as C Ionian. wink.gif


Sorry for being so slow,
but these are my first steps into the world of chords and modes!
Only now I understand how many hints you gave me!
But I'll keep working hard...
Thank you

Eddie

P.S.: I'll be back soon with more dumb questions!

Good night
Muris Varajic
Those are NOT dumb questions at all Eddie,keep asking,
I'm glad to help,keep diving into sea of theory! smile.gif
eddiecat
Hey Muris!
Thanks so much for that Jazz Swing Rhythm lesson!
I can't play it, but I love the fact that you always put the root note of the chords
as the lowest note, it makes it a lot easier to study how they are constructed (intervals etc.)
and it's great to start getting into different tricky extended chords/shapes.
BTW, I'm having a great time pretending to understand! laugh.gif

Would be great to have more extended in future lessons (maybe in your modal riffing series?)

Thank you, this is great fun!
Eddie
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.