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Nighthawk1
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/593...sts_of_all_time

Hi there GMC,
maybe some of you know that the famous rollingstone magazine likes to create a ranking list of the best guitarist of all time. Well, It really drives me mad because alone the idea of ranking guitarist is just absolutely senseless. So let alone that some guitarist are rated top (where you think What is Kurt doing up here) and some low (What is Eddie doing down there?) some great guitarists are not even listed! So what is the criterion for that list ??Do you also think that it is just absolute nonsense to create such a list ?
Like to read your comments...
Marcus Lavendell
Absolute nonsense imo....
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (Marcus Lavendell @ Apr 27 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Absolute nonsense imo....

imo...?What do you mean ?
Canis
You're right. That looks more like a "100 most influencible(?) guitarists" ... Not even that! Jack White is up on #17, while Mark Knopller is all the way down on #27? Since when is Jack White a better guitarist then him?
Slash and Eric Johnson isn't even on the list...
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (Canis @ Apr 27 2008, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're right. That looks more like a "100 most influencible(?) guitarists" ... Not even that! Jack White is up on #17, while Mark Knopller is all the way down on #27? Since when is Jack White a better guitarist then him?
Slash and Eric Johnson isn't even on the list...

Yeah, it all doesn't make sense. Still looking for Yngwie.... dry.gif
OrganisedConfusion
QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Apr 27 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
imo...?What do you mean ?

imo means In My Opinion.
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Apr 27 2008, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
imo means In My Opinion.

ah ok..I see...wasn't familiar with this abbreviation
OrganisedConfusion
QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Apr 27 2008, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ah ok..I see...wasn't familiar with this abbreviation

It's ok. You may also see imho which means In My Honest Opinion.

I think some cool names appear on that list that don't get so much credit like Kim Thayll but on the whole the list is silly. Kurt Cobain would have been laughing as even he admitted he was far from the best guitarist biggrin.gif He was an amazing songwriter I think though.
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Apr 27 2008, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's ok. You may also see imho which means In My Honest Opinion.

I think some cool names appear on that list that don't get so much credit like Kim Thayll but on the whole the list is silly. Kurt Cobain would have been laughing as even he admitted he was far from the best guitarist biggrin.gif He was an amazing songwriter I think though.

Yeah, for sure he was...(R.I.P)...who's Kim Thayll...let's have a look... biggrin.gif
SamJ
Where's Steve Vai and Joe Satriani? huh.gif ohmy.gif
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Apr 27 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where's Steve Vai and Joe Satriani? huh.gif ohmy.gif

Are you kidding? Those guys are naturally NOT GOOD ENOUGH to get on that list tongue.gif
Nemanja Filipovic
The only explenation that I see is that people voted,and the reason for there vote was not speed or some thing elese,but the love that they haw to the band or the artist...
Nighthawk1
Yes, but even if this list was created by votings...it's a strange result... huh.gif
Canis
It's impossible to have a "correct" list like that. There are 6 billion people on the planet, and with that comes 6 billion diffrent tastes of music. So one persons image of a "perfect list" is not anothers wink.gif
Nighthawk1
Indeed, and that's the reason why you shouldn't create such a list in the first place..
Danilo Capezzuto
Bleahh mad.gif Shame on this list.
OrganisedConfusion
QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Apr 27 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, for sure he was...(R.I.P)...who's Kim Thayll...let's have a look... biggrin.gif

He is the guitarist for Soundgarden.
The Uncreator
No disrespect to Hendrix, But im so sick and tired and him just being put up in those lists at number #1, It comes out of habit it seems, like the only way to have a list if is Hendrix is number 1.

Then again this list is rather pathetic,

Iommi #86....... Thats just sad.
OrganisedConfusion
Having Iommi in a top 100 guitarist list is laughable.

Another influential great riff writer but anybody can play the stuff.
Canis
Maybe they made the list saying: "These guys did it first"
Slammer
LOL

Man, I don't remember how many Discussions I've been in on forums since this list came out.

But the Thing that I always never liked was Jack White from the White Stripes at #17! ohmy.gif

They put him in Front of all these other Great guitarists like Eddie Van Halen at #70!

It's defintely more of a Pop contest, Or... who the writer of that list liked better then everyone else.
shellshock1911
The list is utter crap. Jimi Hendrix shouldn't even be in a top 100 list, no offense. The only thing I think is good about this list is the fact that EVH is number 70, where he should be, he is sooooooo overrated, almost as overrated as Jimi Hendrix, I saw him live in Feb, and literally there is NOTHING special about EVH, trust me, NOTHING, he is a completely average guitarist.

Number 1 and 2 should be John Petrucci and Chris Broderick respectively, although I don't know what they mean by "Greatest Guitarist?" Greatest songwriter? Fastest? Most diverse? What? Where the hell is Steve Morse? Yngwie? Marty Friedman? Jason Becker? What the hell this list is so biased it isn't even funny, it was created by a hardcore Rock n' Roll fan with some blues influence.

Tom Morello at 27. Lmfao. Rofl, what about Michael Angelo Batio?? Who TAUGHT him to PLAY guitar??? OMG this list makes me cringe. Yea so, he can tap a pen across his strings, rub his hands, and make stupid sounds, now all a sudden, EXTREMELY CREATIVE guitarist!

And may I ask why Duane Allman is #2 and Dickey Betts is #58? Anyone in their right mind with an unbiased opinion would realize that Duane Allman released like 1 or 2 albums whereas Dickey Betts wrote tons and tons and tons of songs, solos, and was 50x the guitarist that Duane Allman WAS. Now Duane could have potentially been better, had he not died, but his death after showing hardly any of his skills inhibits that. Dickey Betts is way better.
Mark.
I guess this list is made by someone who doesn't play guitar, most people who don't play guitar think a guitarist is a good guitarist when he writes nice songs, not when he is techniqual skilled. Also if you don't play guitar names as Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Michael Angelo Batio say nothing to you, so why would you put them in a list then.

This list is pure crap, it's just like you let a guitarist make the top 100 trompet players dry.gif
shellshock1911
QUOTE (Mark. @ Apr 27 2008, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess this list is made by someone who doesn't play guitar, most people who don't play guitar think a guitarist is a good guitarist when he writes nice songs, not when he is techniqual skilled. Also if you don't play guitar names as Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Michael Angelo Batio say nothing to you, so why would you put them in a list then.

This list is pure crap, it's just like you let a guitarist make the top 100 trompet players dry.gif


Exactly, so it should be titled greatest SONGWRITER, which even then it would be major flawed. Like I said, Dickey Betts wrote nearly every Allman Brothers song for the majority of their career, and I am not even sure if Duane Allman even wrote ONE song, if he did, it was hardly any due to his death, but SOMEHOW, Duane gets #2 and Dickey gets #58. I think the death factor plays a big roll in this list, if a guitarist dies, all of a sudden he was one of the greatest ever. For example, Jimi Hendrix, Duane Allman, Robert Johnson, and Kurt Cobain and primarily on the list simply because they existed and died.
Gus
No one can name greatest guitarists, because every one has a different opinion. We should at most name most favorite guitarists...

That rolling stone list seems to be senseless. The lack of Slash there proves that. You don't need to like Slash to argue that he should be in any top 100th guitarist list whatever is the name: "100 greatest guitarists", "100 Most famous guitarists", "100 most influential guitarists" or even "100 most stylish guitarists".
I mean, Steve Vai and Satriani not being in the list means whoever did the list doesn't understand anything about guitars. But Slash is way too famous to go unseen by who made that list...

If you want to see how people vote:
http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/greatest...arists-ever.asp
It is not a surprise Joe Satriani and Steve Vai are not on the first spots. They are arguably amongst the most technical and talented, but they are not the most famous. And that is what polls are about...

About Jimmy Hendrix he does deserve a good spot, but I think most people vote on him just vote because they heard he is the best, and not for listening to his recordings...
Trond Vold
That was a silly list..
There's no Vai, Satriani, Petrucci, Friedman or Becker..

and Angus Young is all the way down on 96??
Smikey2006
yea this list is jokes.. made me laugh and cry a little.. imo.. hendrix is way over rated.. same with slash i think.. this whole " put feeling in your playing" thing is over rated.. not to say these guys weren't good.. but if no one has realised it.. "feeling" is the choice to add bends and vibrato and to play notes that are very melodic.. anyone can play with feeling, others choose to shred.. its a choice, not a reason to say.. slash is better than buckethead because slash had "feeling". If this list was to suggest the top 100 guitarists of all time then grounds have to be layed..

Song writing ability
Technicality
Precision
Ingenuity
originality.

i have no problem with giving a guitarist like hendrix and slash a good rating because they were both good and original.. but to say best guitarist you cannot forget to give credit to people who are technically incredible such as rusty, vai, satch, eric johnson, Malmasteen, Petrucci, Batio....

overall.. the list is rediculous.. BB king owns most of these ppls anyways smile.gif
Pablo Vazquez
I have a best idea "The 100 most stupid magazines and lists of all time" !! tongue.gif tongue.gif
Gus
QUOTE (Smikey2006 @ Apr 27 2008, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
" put feeling in your playing" thing is over rated.. not to say these guys weren't good.. but if no one has realised it.. "feeling" is the choice to add bends and vibrato and to play notes that are very melodic.. anyone can play with feeling, others choose to shred..

I agree about your general observations, but pretty much disagree about the feeling stuff.
Not everyone can play with feeling. Also not every one can shred, and other people do shred with feeling. And those who can play with feeling do it in very different ways.(after all feeling comes from inside )
David Gilmour or Slash are amongst my favorites, while shredders with no feeling look impressive to me, but I really don't listen to then that often.

The only problem is that rating feeling is totally subjective.
Canis
QUOTE (Pablo Vazquez @ Apr 27 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a best idea "The 100 most stupid magazines and lists of all time" !! tongue.gif tongue.gif

Which one makes the #1? "Top 100 Guitarists of all Time" or "Top 100 Fertilizers of all time" tongue.gif
Fsgdjv
Complaining on a f***ing list is about as stupid as making it like that. There is no proper way of measuring who's the best guitarist etc, so if they think this, let them do that. It's just a list, get over it.
Lian Gerbino
QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Apr 27 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you kidding? Those guys are naturally NOT GOOD ENOUGH to get on that list tongue.gif




yeah.... who knows this guys..... ohmy.gif ohmy.gif huh.gif huh.gif

incredible doesnt it?



_______________________________________________________________________
visit my myspace to know about me

my lessons
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Apr 27 2008, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Complaining on a f***ing list is about as stupid as making it like that. There is no proper way of measuring who's the best guitarist etc, so if they think this, let them do that. It's just a list, get over it.

No I can't get over that list...it really drives me crazy...I think I won't get sleep tonight because of that list
g-forcelover
Hey, check out who they put as #70! blink.gif dry.gif

QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Apr 27 2008, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you kidding? Those guys are naturally NOT GOOD ENOUGH to get on that list tongue.gif


Please tell me you were kidding sad.gif
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (g-forcelover @ Apr 27 2008, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey, check out who they put as #70! blink.gif dry.gif



Please tell me you were kidding sad.gif


These names and "not good" in the same breath is a contradiction in itself...
shellshock1911
QUOTE (Gus @ Apr 27 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree about your general observations, but pretty much disagree about the feeling stuff.
Not everyone can play with feeling. Also not every one can shred, and other people do shred with feeling. And those who can play with feeling do it in very different ways.(after all feeling comes from inside )
David Gilmour or Slash are amongst my favorites, while shredders with no feeling look impressive to me, but I really don't listen to then that often.

The only problem is that rating feeling is totally subjective.


What is emotion? What is feeling? There is no definition. Yes, everyone can, and does play with feeling, if I feel emotionally connected to my music, who can tell me that I am not? Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling. Once again, define feeling. And if shredders were not passionate about guitar, why would they spend thousands of hours perfecting their technique when guitarists with "emotion" and "feeling" have spent little to none?

Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling. No song in the world makes me more happy than a Dragonforce song, happiness is an emotion. That is the thing, emotion in music is far more complex and diverse than people who claim there is "no feeling" in a select few players make it out to be.
Ivan Milenkovic
These lists are absolutely ridiculous biggrin.gif
Nighthawk1
QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is emotion? What is feeling? There is no definition. Yes, everyone can, and does play with feeling, if I feel emotionally connected to my music, who can tell me that I am not? Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling. Once again, define feeling. And if shredders were not passionate about guitar, why would they spend thousands of hours perfecting their technique when guitarists with "emotion" and "feeling" have spent little to none?

Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling. No song in the world makes me more happy than a Dragonforce song, happiness is an emotion. That is the thing, emotion in music is far more complex and diverse than people who claim there is "no feeling" in a select few players make it out to be.

I also think that you can put a lot of feeling in all kind of technique stuff... Gary Moore is a great example how much feeling he puts in a simple bend ...but you can definetely put a lot of feeling in shred stuff too...
fkalich
QUOTE (Mark. @ Apr 27 2008, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess this list is made by someone who doesn't play guitar, most people who don't play guitar think a guitarist is a good guitarist when he writes nice songs, not when he is techniqual skilled. Also if you don't play guitar names as Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Michael Angelo Batio say nothing to you, so why would you put them in a list then.

This list is pure crap, it's just like you let a guitarist make the top 100 trompet players dry.gif


You mean, Johnny Ramone at #16, and those guys left off, you have a problem with that?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9kOamgaU0&feature=related

Well, the Ramones never made me yawn like all those guys, and they did invent punk. There are videos from the early 70's that demonstrate that it was the Ramones that invented punk, no question about it, evidence is clearly there.
shellshock1911
QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 27 2008, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You mean, Johnny Ramone at #16, and those guys left off, you have a problem with that?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9kOamgaU0&feature=related

Well, the Ramones never made me yawn like all those guys, and they did invent punk. There are videos from the early 70's that demonstrate that it was the Ramones that invented punk, no question about it, evidence is clearly there.


If you want the list based on that criteria, well Joe Satch and Steve Vai pretty much made the genre of Melodic Shred, and John Petrucci helped create Progressive Metal. And yawn? http://youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI

And even if the list was based on most creative as far as making genres go, punk is more than just the guitar, which is pretty much just simple barchord/powerchord rhythms, but this is the best GUITARIST list, not songwriter, whatever.
JVM
QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is emotion? What is feeling? There is no definition. Yes, everyone can, and does play with feeling, if I feel emotionally connected to my music, who can tell me that I am not? Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling. Once again, define feeling. And if shredders were not passionate about guitar, why would they spend thousands of hours perfecting their technique when guitarists with "emotion" and "feeling" have spent little to none?

Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling. No song in the world makes me more happy than a Dragonforce song, happiness is an emotion. That is the thing, emotion in music is far more complex and diverse than people who claim there is "no feeling" in a select few players make it out to be.


Disclaimer: shellshock, a lot of this isn't really directed specifically at you, but I'm just quoting you to start and then I'll probably ramble off on some other stuff tongue.gif

I see both camps. I think a lot of pro shred people make a good point about how people who play with "emotion" are not really any more special than people who shred, but then they (some) go on to make a point that is completely incorrect IMO, and their point is that due to the first point, shredders are better. That's not true. I guarantee you that a lot of old school blues players put as much if not more practice into their art than shredders do. They practice different things though. They might practice writing a song or improvising by jamming with their friends for hours a day, where a shredder might practice their sweep picking for the same amount of time. Every time you play it's practice.

I'm not saying that non-shredders are better than shredders or the other way around, I'm saying there's no difference. When a player is good at something, they're good. The amount of hours put into it doesn't make it better. You can be a technically amazing player who is incapable of writing a good song and you can be a technically yawn worthy player who writes a simple three chord song in 5 minutes that is really good. The amount you practice your guitar doesn't correlate to how good you are at it, it correlates to how big your chest of tools to choose from is (vocabulary) and how up to date your tools are (proficiency/efficiency), if thats not the worst analogy in the world.

When we think of a guitar player who has "emotion" we mean they are really good at playing certain notes that are very pleasing to our ear which trigger emotional responses. That takes just as much practice as learning to shred, it's a choice. There's a reason that I've never heard and probably never will hear dragonforce do a good blues song. The reason is twofold, first because they don't want to tongue.gif And secondly because even though they could technically do it by choosing the right notes and such, that's not all there is to it. They don't have the experience and practice to write a classic blues song. They can emulate it, but that's it. It's not their style.

Also I'd like to point out something you said shellshock. "Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling."

Maybe thats for you but I find it hard to believe that every blues song creates a laid back and or sad soulful feeling, or that shred creates high energy feeling. I can name a number of dirty, nasty high energy blues songs and a number of sad soulful laid back shred tunes. There is no set emotion attached to certain genres.

In the end though I agree that the list is totally useless and leaves out many great players, and that I love all kinds of music wink.gif

fkalich
QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you want the list based on that criteria, well Joe Satch and Steve Vai pretty much made the genre of Melodic Shred, and John Petrucci helped create Progressive Metal. And yawn? http://youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI

And even if the list was based on most creative as far as making genres go, punk is more than just the guitar, which is pretty much just simple barchord/powerchord rhythms, but this is the best GUITARIST list, not songwriter, whatever.


they are not judging it by gmc worshiped guitar god standards. those guys are so unknown to the general public. there is a reason for it. they are boring to most people. they even bore me, and I play guitar as much as anybody around here, and shred in my fashion. but most people just find them boring. it takes more than just being a virtuoso to be interesting. i will take an interesting 3 chord guy over a pretentious guitar god any time.

van halen being at 70 was because most people identify that band to closely with DLR. Same with Slash and Axel. But it was a list of guitarists the readers like. And probably pretty accurate by that criteria.
shellshock1911
QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 27 2008, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
they are not judging it by gmc worshiped guitar god standards. those guys are so unknown to the general public. there is a reason for it. they are boring to most people. they even bore me, and I play guitar as much as anybody around here, and shred in my fashion. but most people just find them boring. it takes more than just being a virtuoso to be interesting. i will take an interesting 3 chord guy over a pretentious guitar god any time.

van halen being at 70 was because most people identify that band to closely with DLR. Same with Slash and Axel. But it was a list of guitarists the readers like. And probably pretty accurate by that criteria.


Dream Theater has sold 10 million albums, so someone must know about them. And most of these shredders are actually pretty well known in places like Japan, where Malmsteen, for example has a huge fan base. And I believe that 4 of his albums were in the top 100 for sales for like 10 years, so no, they aren't soooo unknown to the general public as it might appear, if the U.S. was the entire world, it might be that way.
Gus
QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling.


Well, you are in fact right. The words "no", "never" and "ever" are always too strong. So, "no feeling" is over-exaggeration.

I just wanted to point out that playing as fast as possible is not the objective of everyone with a guitar. In fact I am right now spending more time on the bend+vibrato than on notes per minute. Actually, I find bend+vibrato a tricky technique to master... All over the fretboard, in different guitars, with fixed or floating bridge... In each of them is a little different. And bending removes the limits of the well tempered instrument... So many possibilities...

I see no problem in going fast, in fact I think it is really good to go all the way to it.
I just love songs like Fade to Black, One, November Rain and Estranged where it starts very slowly and builds up all the way to a climax.

By the way, I do like Dragon force...
Col Roberts
What inspired this list? Alvin Lee not in the top 100 .... what's going on? blink.gif
Here's a taste of Alvin Lee if you haven't heard of him:

Alvin Lee
Mark.
Jeez I hate all this crap about rating a guitarist on his emotional stuff;
Do I suddenly become a good guitarist when I play some bends on the right time and pretend that I got to cry?
Should you be an emo to become a good guitarist or something ?
I think that you should jugde every sort of music for yourself and not for others.
And that you should jugde it by listening to it, not by the stage preformance of the musician.
If 3 chords please you then that's fine for you, or if 100000 notes per second is the thing for you, fine!
Just don't try to convince the other what is better and Dont make a list of who is the best!


All this crap about what is better is totally pointless; it's all personal opinion and there is no right or wrong.
Nighthawk1
The reason why I came up with that stupid list was that I was reading a wiki article about john frusicante and it was said in there that he was rated number 13 or so of the 100 greatest guitarist by the rolling stone magazine...so I wondered but that list is...and if wiki refers to that list...it must be something serious....which we all know now is utter crap !
Juan M. Valero
12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana

16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones


Oh, I thought we were talking about guitarrists laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
(sorry, I hate both !! tongue.gif)
Pablo Vazquez
QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Apr 28 2008, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana

16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones


Oh, I thought we were talking about guitarrists laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
(sorry, I hate both !! tongue.gif)


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Marcus Siepen
rofl... Kurt Cobain on 12 and David Gilmour on sixtysomething? yeah right...
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