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Xuestor
Satriani sues Coldplay for copying his song If I could Fly and turning it into Viva La Vida. What do U guys think about this?
I think this is a done deal. How did coldplay think they would get away with this?
sigma7
Dude it is obvious that these hacks copied his melody
J.E.
Because they do not have respect for music, they are just out for the profit smile.gif
FrankW
It's possible that the melody and chord progression is purely coincidence. But Satch probably has a case if music copyrights mean anything. I don't think that makes him a bad guy. Parts of both tunes are very similar.
Capt.Z
I heard about this before... Tis 'bout time biggrin.gif
Guitarman700
QUOTE (sigma7 @ Dec 5 2008, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dude it is obvious that these hacks copied his melody



QUOTE (Jarl Emil @ Dec 5 2008, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because they do not have respect for music, they are just out for the profit smile.gif

Wrong. Coldplay aren't hacks, they are serious musicians, and honestly, I think satch is a little too sensitive about this, That's a common chord progression, very easy for the songs to sound similiar. honestly, ive lost some respect for Satch from this, i mean, he's coming off as a little sore, maybe because coldplay sells out arenas and he doesent?
Regardless, both satch and coldplay write great songs, and i wish they would just let this go. Its not doing anyone any favors.
JVM
QUOTE (Jarl Emil @ Dec 5 2008, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because they do not have respect for music, they are just out for the profit smile.gif


That's quite a bold claim coming from someone who doesn't know these guys. Maybe they are, but lets refrain from jumping to conclusions. Like them or not, Coldplay are accomplished musicians in their own right.

QUOTE (Guitarman700 @ Dec 5 2008, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wrong. Coldplay aren't hacks, they are serious musicians, and honestly, I think satch is a little too sensitive about this, That's a common chord progression, very easy for the songs to sound similiar. honestly, ive lost some respect for Satch from this, i mean, he's coming off as a little sore, maybe because coldplay sells out arenas and he doesent?
Regardless, both satch and coldplay write great songs, and i wish they would just let this go. Its not doing anyone any favors.


I wouldn't say I've lost respect for Satch, but I do think its an overreaction. It might well be his management making this decision, anyone know?
Trond Vold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I .. i agree with Satrianis case. It's quite obvious really.
Guitarman700
QUOTE (JVM @ Dec 5 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wouldn't say I've lost respect for Satch, but I do think its an overreaction. It might well be his management making this decision, anyone know?

We do live in a "sue anyone, at any time" society. rolleyes.gif Who knows...
Capt.Z
QUOTE (Trond Vold @ Dec 5 2008, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I .. i agree with Satrianis case. It's quite obvious really.

I've seen that before!! It does make the case quite clear smile.gif
ErikEklund
Yes! I´ve been waiting for this. Every time I hear the coldplay song I get a little angry because they are getting cred for joes work.

rockztar
really hope that joe wins, what coldplay did is so wrong
Bondy
This is being discussed in anther thread check it out
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...=22132&st=0
GuitarsANDtattoos
This is kind of a bummer really...will every lick ever created eventually be subject to copyright checks???
Guitarman700
QUOTE (GuitarsANDtattoos @ Dec 5 2008, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is kind of a bummer really...will every lick ever created eventually be subject to copyright checks???

That's a scary thought... sad.gif
Canis
I'm with Joe on this one. The chance of this beeing a coincidence is pretty low...
Rooks
I'd say they are very more than inspired by him..
Maybe they should have done what all others do.. Ask him first if they can "borrow" the melody on legal copyright..
berko
IMO the concept is great: with such "scandal" they both get as much promotion that they can even forget about the cost of the suit. Coz Satch is not going to be a less wonderful musician by making a fuss about it and Coldplay will keep on filling concert halls all over the world even after this issue.

Same melody, different context. I And its not fair to compare the Satch and Coldplay. I'll continue to listen to both without any loss of respect. Since melodies do not belong to anyone and you can't possess a chord progression. This is about industry and money.
Kristofer Dahl
This is interesting - makes me think... What if you or me happen to write something which sounds like someone else's song, and if you then get sued..?! unsure.gif

Better stop writing music ph34r.gif

Or what if Paul Gilbert sues me for a pattern I thought invented ph34r.gif

Oh I forgot, no one will sue you unless you make millions of dollars from the song, we're safe mellow.gif
Kapto
That's gonna be a good publicity for Satch. That's all he's after winning or not. That's what I think
Ivan Milenkovic
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 6 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh I forgot, no one will sue you unless you make millions of dollars from the song, we're safe mellow.gif


Good point! wink.gif
Iluha
Hmm... I'm not sure about the authenty of this news item..

Yeah I read it on Ultimate-guitar, but it doesnt even contain a single quote, plus there's no mention of it on Satriani's site..

So I dunno how true this is, but if it is, than I'm sure that satch has a strong case to sue them, his not the one to just go blazing about copyrights, like metallica for example tongue.gif
FrankW
QUOTE (Kapto @ Dec 6 2008, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's gonna be a good publicity for Satch. That's all he's after winning or not. That's what I think



Joe Satriani is a gentle soul. I would find it hard to believe that he had even an ounce of greed in him. It just doesn't fit his profile. It just doesn't make sense that Satch is after publicity, good or bad. He's got a legitimate case here. He could have let it slide, but he has a right to the integrity of his music.
OrganisedConfusion
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 5 2008, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is interesting - makes me think... What if you or me happen to write something which sounds like someone else's song, and if you then get sued..?! unsure.gif

Better stop writing music ph34r.gif

Or what if Paul Gilbert sues me for a pattern I thought invented ph34r.gif

Oh I forgot, no one will sue you unless you make millions of dollars from the song, we're safe mellow.gif

I agree fully. Satriani is only sueing Coldplay because they made millions off the song. There are only a finite amount of chord progressions and riffs and Coldplay wrote there song without listening to Joe at all I'd imagine. If he wins it's just wrong because it isn't the same. Just because his solo can be played over their song doesn't mean it's copied. They don't do his solo. I hate this stuff.

Gary Moore just lost a case also

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermo...wsitemID=110167

QUOTE (FrankW @ Dec 6 2008, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Joe Satriani is a gentle soul. I would find it hard to believe that he had even an ounce of greed in him. It just doesn't fit his profile. It just doesn't make sense that Satch is after publicity, good or bad. He's got a legitimate case here. He could have let it slide, but he has a right to the integrity of his music.

Satriani knows he is nothing and he wants a bit of cash to live. He is like most people these days. Full of greed but hopefully he loses and they get him to pay the court charges. I'd laugh forever biggrin.gif Satriani is a money grabber. Just because he can't make money he sues a band that does make money. He is a joke.
Kristofer Dahl
To be more specific this is probably is not about what Satch thinks - but his publishing company (or anybody else who has interest in the legal aspects of Satch's productions - in most cases the actual artists have very little influence on these kind of situations), who of course should defend the rights to their product etc.

Where artistry and business meet is a contradictory territory.
rokchik
I'm not that familiar with Satch's song but I am a fan of Viva La vida. I enjoyed the whole album actually.

Do both songs sound similar? YES

Does Satch have a case? Not sure but probably. (I don't know a lot about copy-write infringement)

What I find interesting is the album has been out since June, the song has been on the charts since May, but he waits until it's nominated for some Grammy's before filing a suit. But good luck to all and if Coldplay are in the wrong then they do deserve to pay up... I'm just suspicious of the timing.

rok
FrankW
QUOTE (rokchik @ Dec 6 2008, 02:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What I find interesting is the album has been out since June, the song has been on the charts since May, but he waits until it's nominated for some Grammy's before filing a suit.
rok


It could very well be that Satch wasn't even aware of the music until it was hyped for a Grammy. Like I said, it's just not like Satch, in my opinion, to be the greedy sort. He really has a case if Coldplay is getting recognition based on that particular songs' popularity. He probably wouldn't even be aware of it, otherwise. I'm pretty sure Satch makes, and has, plenty of money from all the great music he has produced over the years. smile.gif
enforcer
Man please, I am not endorsed by Satch but listen to this I dont care about the chord progression but there are 8 notes identical in both melodies and lets make the calculation, if there are 12 notes available and 7 notes in a scale that is directly related to the chord progression, probablity to make the same melody is 7x7x7x7x7x7x7x7 to 1. That makes 5.764.801 to 1. And lets say you have to use the roots to chords that are switched, as there is 4 chords progressing, it still makes 1x7x1x7x1x7x1x7 to 1 and that makes 2401 to 1. Isn't that clear?

wink.gif
FrankW
QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 6 2008, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Satriani knows he is nothing and he wants a bit of cash to live. He is like most people these days. Full of greed but hopefully he loses and they get him to pay the court charges. I'd laugh forever biggrin.gif Satriani is a money grabber. Just because he can't make money he sues a band that does make money. He is a joke.



Beautiful! Your insight is staggering. There's no way I can argue with that kind of logic. Bravo! smile.gif
Tjchep
I just looked up online about plagiarism laws, and I guess you need to have 8 consecutive "plagiarized" notes for it to be considered plagiarism, or copyright infringement.

I only counted 4 or 5. sad.gif
inertia
QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 5 2008, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Satriani knows he is nothing and he wants a bit of cash to live. He is like most people these days. Full of greed but hopefully he loses and they get him to pay the court charges. I'd laugh forever biggrin.gif Satriani is a money grabber. Just because he can't make money he sues a band that does make money. He is a joke.

You're right, he is nothing, I mean because YOU're saying it, it must be true mellow.gif
N4085B
Even Rush has run into a similar situation before. Take a listen;

http://www.musicintheabstract.org/rush-odd...ymond-scott.mp3
(takes a few seconds to download)


Severals fans have reported hearing the "Monsters" section of La Villa Strangiato in a recent VISA commercial. But it turns out that it was not Rush's La Villa Strangiato at all - it was a version of the song Powerhouse which was written, performed, and first recorded by Raymond Scott in 1936. The song is very familiar to many people because of its wide usage in cartoons. This FAQ from the Raymond Scott website sheds some light on the relation between Rush's La Villa Strangiato and Powerhouse:

Q: Did the rock band RUSH get sued and have to pay royalties for their unauthorized use of Raymond Scott's ''Powerhouse'' in their 1978 recording "La Villa Strangiato"?

A: By the time Raymond Scott's publisher notified the band's management of the infringement, the statute of limitations had expired on the challenge. But Rush's management, out of deference to Mr. and Mrs. Scott (Raymond was still alive at that point), offered a one-time "penance" payment, feeling it was the ethical thing to do. All involved were happy with the resolution, and Rush has no further financial obligations. Under the settlement, they were not required to accord RS partial songwriting credit on the.piece.

Take a listen to Stevie Ray Vaughn's playing.....Just about every lick he ever played was done before by the blues guitar greats decades prior to him....I remember seeing an interview where he readily admits this. I think its true of all of us...we listen to our favorite bands and either consciously or unconsciously pick up on licks, melodies, and techniques and use them in our own playing.
Iluha
QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 6 2008, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree fully. Satriani is only sueing Coldplay because they made millions off the song. There are only a finite amount of chord progressions and riffs and Coldplay wrote there song without listening to Joe at all I'd imagine. If he wins it's just wrong because it isn't the same. Just because his solo can be played over their song doesn't mean it's copied. They don't do his solo. I hate this stuff.

Gary Moore just lost a case also

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermo...wsitemID=110167


Satriani knows he is nothing and he wants a bit of cash to live. He is like most people these days. Full of greed but hopefully he loses and they get him to pay the court charges. I'd laugh forever biggrin.gif Satriani is a money grabber. Just because he can't make money he sues a band that does make money. He is a joke.


I hope you'r not serious in this post, even I got offended by how rude it was.
Ctodd
QUOTE (Iluha @ Dec 6 2008, 05:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope you'r not serious in this post, even I got offended by how rude it was.


putting OC's opinion of Satriani aside, I feel he made a few fairly good points. Yes it is quite suspicious that the song in question is written inthe same key, and and at the same tempo, with the same melody... but its only the chorus part fo the song right???

I mean the rest of the song is completely different...

and besides... as Kris mentioned earlier... it is entirely likely that it is the record label that is taking care of this legal issue, and that Satriani has little/nothing to do with it.
Nemanja Filipovic
Melodies seams to be similar,but suing is just wrong if atentions are not bad.I personaly think that Viva la Vida is one of the best albums this year,and this little what I think coinsidance will not change my view on this band or Satrianis music for that matter.

What mater in this or any case when it comes to music is,atmosphere that you bring tho the whole thing.I think that Coldplay is very original band,that is why I never taught about this before,until this theard(and I'v heard bout songs beffore).
Gus
QUOTE (Trond Vold @ Dec 5 2008, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I .. i agree with Satrianis case. It's quite obvious really.

OMG. The part where the guy mixed guitar and voice together is absolutely awesome! tongue.gif
Really, if they wanted to copy they should have invited Satch to play the song with them in the recording. I am quite sure he would be glad.

QUOTE (enforcer @ Dec 6 2008, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man please, I am not endorsed by Satch but listen to this I dont care about the chord progression but there are 8 notes identical in both melodies and lets make the calculation, if there are 12 notes available and 7 notes in a scale that is directly related to the chord progression, probablity to make the same melody is 7x7x7x7x7x7x7x7 to 1. That makes 5.764.801 to 1. And lets say you have to use the roots to chords that are switched, as there is 4 chords progressing, it still makes 1x7x1x7x1x7x1x7 to 1 and that makes 2401 to 1. Isn't that clear?

wink.gif

I fully agree with you. Equal Tempo and chord progression do not mean a thing. But, same melody is totally suspicious . Just look at our recording collaborations. Different people sound totally different given the same chord sequence to work over it. I'd say the probability is smaller than 2401, because not all combinations sound nice. But it would still be very unlikely they did not copy it.
J.E.
You say i have a bold oppinion on the matter if Coldplay is in it for the money or not, but that is just my oppinion smile.gif Im not the biggest fan of Satch but i think he outplays those guys any day! tongue.gif
Tuubsu
I don't know much about this thing nor do I care that much either, but did you guys know that Coldplay was accused of plagiarism last summer by Creaky Boards. the "plagiarised song" was the same Viva La Vida. They didn't sue though, chord progression was the same and melody similiar, not as similiar as Joe's song though.
Muris Varajic
Hmm,I heard rumor about it but haven't really compared
both tunes until now.
Chord progression is the same but that is pretty ordinary one tho.
Problem is the key,melody and the tempo,just the same.
Dunno,I believe court is the right solution for this,
lets see what experts in this field of law gonna say.
J.E.
I agree with Muris smile.gif
Ian Bushell
That's hectic!

I agree good publicity for the satch too!

I'm on his side all the way on this one:)
Ctodd
I think the main problem at hand for Satch is that if he were to perform If I could Fly in front of people who are not familiar with his music... people will be inclined to think that he copied Coldplay... or if they just hear that part of the song they may even think that he is covering the song viva la vida!

and to me thats a problem.
Marc_Maiden
here is my take on this:


joe satriani is easily a more knowledgeable person in the music arts than cold play.

im sure if he wanted to he could find a million other songs that sound like his HOWEVER,

i trust his musical ear, and i am sure, that he heard something in that song that made him think that they plagiarized it.


satch isnt the kind of musician that would "sue" ...then again i dont know him personally (even though we live very close to each other)

i hope satch wins...hopefully itll send out a message to other musicians to write their own stuff!
fkalich
Here's my take. I am on Satriani's side regardless of merit. I had never heard of Cold Play before this, but I have looked at a few videos, and besides being a lame near-boy band without any artistic merit, the singer looks like a bearded buck tooth rabbit.

That is enough reason for me to side with Satriani, I will side with a bald guy over a boy band singer who looks like a bearded rabbit.
Marc_Maiden
now this is just wrong: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/a...A_mASZdA4mxWMiw


they refer to satriani as just "some guitarist" thats totaly not fair..


and satch was also grammy nominated! they can go suck eggs !
Guitarman700
QUOTE (Marc_Maiden @ Dec 8 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
now this is just wrong: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/a...A_mASZdA4mxWMiw


they refer to satriani as just "some guitarist" thats totaly not fair..


and satch was also grammy nominated! they can go suck eggs !

Umm.. thats the newspaper saying that, not the band. huh.gif
Marc_Maiden
QUOTE (Guitarman700 @ Dec 8 2008, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Umm.. thats the newspaper saying that, not the band. huh.gif



i know, but still, it isnt fair, i think coldplay will have the upper hand because their song is newer and more well heard of..
Sircraigery
Think it's an influenced coincidence.

Maybe Coldplay's limo driver listens to Satch, and they heard it in the background while drinking their Crystal wine one day.... Then, weeks later, trying to write a song, Coldplay's the guitar player comes up with the chord progression. Strangely enough, this just pops out of the vocalist. Everyone says "Yes sir! That's our next Juno" (I can't remember what the US one is...a grammy maybe?).

Anyways, I'm a neutral party. I can't say I'm too fond of either group. Maybe we should start a fund to get them two groups to wear dresses on stage. They are only embarrassing themselves, (*COUGH - NAPSTER*). After seeing this, Satch would probably suggest a g-string for a pay raise. Coldplay would video tape it and sell it to a sick market overseas. I say overseas, so Scatch couldn't sue them. We'd only have an endless cycle that way. Sounds familiar, someone doing work, and someone else collect money.

Why? Because money rules all - Dolla' dolla' bill y'all. It's all the white collars with their "society". Society man....society.

- Alexander Supertramp

NOW.... I ask, who knows what movie he's from?
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