On my way to work this morning I was thinking about my last thread (http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=35029) on achieving a good recording tone. Thanks everyone for the replies - I have my homework to do and would appreciate help along the way in understanding better how to achieve it. Most notably, learning which effect affects the signal in which way - e.g. how do things like compression affect the sound audibly, not techicnally (I know what it does).

I thought it might be interesting to start a "Tone-Lab" thread. The challenge is this: Ultimate Guitar forum has a VST Plugin Guide stickied that I think would be fun to piggy back off of for learning and experimenting with Plugin tones.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showt...d.php?t=1131250

In that thread is a riff already recorded in dry-tone (no effects, just straight line in). If you'd like to take the challenge, see what kinds of metal tones you can generate from that file and post your results including what plugins, effects and settings you used to get that tone.

The audio files are here:
https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/371262/ThrashTest.rar

Christian A.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Results to date:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Guitar Rig 4 (uploaded by ozRob)
Lead left: Puppetmaster
Lead right: YNGW
Rhy Left: Dual Ultra
Rhy Right: Dual Riff
Sonic maximizer globally
File: Guitar Rig 4
Notes: imported into daw, added G4 presets, BBE globally. No EQ or other effs.

Waves GTR 3 (uploaded by Artemus)
Rhythm Left: "Crunch" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 - on axis
Rhythm Right: "Monster" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 off axis
Lead Left: "Shredder" amp; 2x12 OpenBack; Dyn409 - on axis
Lead Right: "Scorch" amp; 2x12 ClosedBacl; Dyn409 - off axis
GTR.wav ( 4.67MB )

Aradaz amp (uploaded by Artemus)
Rhythm Left: Aradaz Green
Rhythm Right: Aradaz White
Lead: Sumulanalog Marshall JCM + Simulanalog Univox Uni-Vibe
Aradaz.wav ( 5.7MB )

Amplitude 2 (uploaded by Artemus)
Using all presets in Heavy Metal style folder:
Rhythm Left: "Dualamp powerrhythm"
Rhythm Right: "Dualamp pwrchrds"
Lead: "Solo"
Amplitude.wav ( 4.57MB )

Amplitude Metal (uploaded by Todd Simpson)
price: ~$99USD
Presets: unspecified.
Ozone on drums, minimal production in terms of compressors, EQ, mixing, mastering etc.
AmplitudeMetal.wav ( 4.38MB )

Amplitude Metal #2(uploaded by Todd Simpson)
price: ~$99USD
Presets: Randall Warhead 300 + Fender MH-1 Cabinet + Rack Tube Compressor + Neuman condenser Mic. *see post #27 for image of settings.
Amplitude_v2.wav ( 4.55MB )

ReValver MKIII- Peavy (uploaded by Ivan Milenkovic)
Price: ouch ~ $299.00USD
Presets: unspecified. Effects: unspecified
test1.wav ( 7.83MB )

A fine idea I"ll put my "Special Sauce" on it and repost. After trying just about every amp modeler and modeling plugin, I finally found AMPLITUDE METAL, as I mentioned. So far the only modeling plugin designed specifically for metal. On a related note, there is now an AMP MODELER for the iPhone. Who would have thought? From the same guys that make Amplitude Metal.

IPHONE GUITAR MODELING

Amplitude Metal is not the only modelling plug-in designed for metal.
Softube Metal Amp Room is another great plug-in as well

I'll repost the unprocessed files with Metal Amp Room if you want.
Sometime tomorrow

Yes, I want! = This thread is for Metal tones and I'm hoping to generate some good information with samples in this thread for everyone to benefit from. If you can include your effects chain - and any non-copyrighted settings that would be ideal I'll be posting my own experiments as well (I would have already except I wrote this from work so I gotta wait til I get home).

Thanks guys,
Christian A.

I will add Peavey Revalver Mkiii as an option as well, it seems to be able to produce some real nasty metal-tones. Also Overloud TH1 are target to metal, but consumes a LOT of raw computer power (eg. RAM).

//Staffay

This was about 5mins work in Guitar Rig 4 using only presets and not adjusting any settings - and that's the second time I've opened GR4, so pardon the mixing. It does seem to me that GR4 has some real potential if one were to spend time with it.


Click to view attachment

Very Nice and Tight playing there too mate .. Which preset is that in GR4?

The playing was the files SirJam linked to. I just put them through GR4.

Presets:-

Lead left: Puppetmaster
Lead right: YNGW
Rhy Left: Dual Ultra
Rhy Right: Dual Riff

Then a touch of Sonic maximizer globally to give some more bight. Beyond that, nothing else.

Ps. so it's clear, I didn't adjust any settings on anything. Imported the tracks into DAW. Added GR4 presets to lead and rhythm and BBE to global. Haven't done any EQing, compressing or anything. Adjusted track levels a little but that's all. Given the result 'as is', I'm really thinking that GR4 could produce excellent tones given some time to play with it.

Cool Thanks. I'm only use GR now but it's time to get version 4

I meant to say the only plugin from AMPLITUDE designed specifically for metal. Other vendors make their own. Some guys prefer the Peavey plugin, it varies widely. My point here is that I prefer the Amplitude Metal plugin. Having tried most every plugin available, It just sounds better than most. But again, hearing is subjective so it's important to try things for yourself.

GETTING GOOD METAL AMP TONE:
If you decide to use an amp/speaker/cab what have you, and a mic instead of going direct. I can share with you some tips and tricks that I used to get a good chunky/crunchy tone. Again, THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE AND SOME WILL FIND IT CRAZY.

I play a 7 string Ibanez with a low B and it's very deep. I found guitar speakers just didn't have enough bottom end for me. Even cabs from KRANK, MARSHAL, etc. All seemed to be tuned to bottom out around the range of a standard six string E frequency. So I picked up a trick from some Death/Grind players and tried a bass guitar cabinet with a 15 inch driver. BINGO! Deep thick tone. I did have to EQ some mid back in though. Eventually, I found a fairly cheap combo Bass amp (Crate brand no less) with an onboard E.Q. I only use it for amplification and speaker color. All processing is done either in software or by my GNX3.

Once the tone is dialed up, I use a fairly cheap Condenser microphone (MXL brand) set off axis, six inches back and tilted up slightly and turned in a little. I've spend countless hours moving mics around cabinets and speakers and found this somehow yields the best results for semi close mic work. If you jam a condenser mic in the middle of the cone, it can frap, and just sound kinda crappy. By setting it back and off axis, you allow the condenser some breathing room and pick up more color from the speaker which is kind of the point of not going direct.

The good news is, this setup is not expensive. Amp was about $300, mic was about $75. And yields great tone. To get similar tone in the traditional way, you may end up needing a Mesa Head/Cab/rack compressor, eq, etc. Which costs thousands. I've tried it that way and it can be done. But as I headed toward doing more and more "In the box" (using software and modeling) I found I was using my cabs/heads/rack less and less Eventually I sold most of it and bought more software, guitars, computers etc. Here is a pic of the amp/mic setup.



Some gear I bought after selling off my amps/heads/cabs and going for this new approach.

Here are the results with some of the plug-ins that I've been playing with lately:

All bass files put through Waves plugin called RBass

Waves GTR 3 (probably my favourite atm)

Rhythm Left: "Crunch" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 - on axis
Rhythm Right: "Monster" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 off axis
Lead Left: "Shredder" amp; 2x12 OpenBack; Dyn409 - on axis
Lead Right: "Scorch" amp; 2x12 ClosedBacl; Dyn409 - off axis
Click to view attachment

Aradaz amp

Rhythm Left: Aradaz Green
Rhythm Right: Aradaz White
Lead: Sumulanalog Marshall JCM + Simulanalog Univox Uni-Vibe
Click to view attachment

Amplitude 2
Using all presets in Heavy Metal style folder:
Rhythm Left: "Dualamp powerrhythm"
Rhythm Right: "Dualamp pwrchrds"
Lead: "Solo"
Click to view attachment

I ran each guitar track through Amplitude Metal and put Ozone on the drums. I must say, it's pretty darn heavy. I was actually kinda shocked at how spiff and crunchy it ended up sounding. Minimal production in terms of compressors, EQ, mixing, mastering etc. I'm sending a .wav file as the mp3 version just didn't do it justice.

We're getting a nice little collection here. It's pretty cool opening each one in a separate player so they're all available and testing each one side by side. They all sound really good, to me anyways and I'm wondering if that's the magic of double-tracking working, because I've tried these plugins direct thru my system on my geetar, and I can't get nearly the same amount of tight crunch playing direct - but double tracking then listening and whala. trip.

Yeh, doubling fattens the sound, gives it more kick, and if you get two complementary sounds, a really nice overall tone can come through.

Doubling is a great way to get killer tones. Also, panning them about 15 degrees out left and right creates and stereo field so it sounds much bigger. Also, something called "re-amping" is getting very popular. Essentially, running out of your DAW and in to a guitar amp and then recording that back in to the DAW.

Another trick, that I use all the time, is software "Re-Amping" for example, I'll take the Amplitude plugin and bus it to separate compressor, gate, eq, and amp simulator. Or sometomes, pre-amping by running the compressor, gate, eq, and software amp modeler (like one in garage band or LOGIC) in to the Metal Plugin. Essentially stacking modeling plugins. You have to be careful as the first stage can only have minimal gain, just enough to act as a pre amp.

The amp modeling built in to Garage band and LOGIC is killer. Put a plugin modeler on top of that and you can get crazy with it I find that most one stage modelers that are software only simply lack the gain to make me happy.

Todd

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy => ReValver MKIII + couple of more tricks

wow. this is good tone - very punchy.

Punchy is my middle name

Here is a screen cap of the preset I used in amplitude metal. I don't think it's stock. I downloaded a bunch of user presets from the IK multimedia web site. Great community with tons of user presets. It's pretty simple as far as setup.

5150 Amp Emulation
5150 Cab Emulation
Sm57 Mic (Of axis of course)

No Pedals emulated
No Rack Gear emulated.

Basically a 5150 emulation with a Sm57. Pretty simple.

Now I am "pre-amping" with a side chain of Garage Band built in fx.

Compressor
Noise gate
Marshall Emulation Combo Amp gain +2

This provides the plugin with enough gain to actually sound METAL. I've noticed that without some sort of pre-amping, the plugins just can't get enough gain to get really crunchy, metalish, tone. Here is a pic of the head settings in Amplitude.
Trying to buy just the head and cab would be way more than the plugin. Now that amp is very nice and would be great to have. But being able to emulate wads of amps and fx is just to powerful an option to ignore for the recording enthusiast. I should get a kick back from IK Multimedia from pimping them so hard!

Todd, thanks for the recap on the settings! Great info, and yeah - we need to get you an IK Multimedia T-shirt, with your mug on it!



and if forgot to ask - have you tried sitting one of these in your plugin chain? I was playing with it and it has a pretty good warming/widening effect to the crunch.

http://www.bteaudio.com/software/TSS/TSS.html

If I may add... TSS goes along great with Amplitube Fender line

Looks like a very cool plugin It's doing the same kind of thing I"m attemping with the "pre-amping" section of my fx chain. A bit more gain before your primary distortion is a good idea in software. Sadly this is windows only and my home studio is a Mac setup. If they go cross platform though I'd love to give it a whirl!

Todd

It's the best free tubescreamer software emulation I ever had the chance to test. It's far from perfect and Amplitube 3 one is also decent, but this one is free, and does a very good job in providing an extra grunt. However, I wouldn't count it for metal, it has too much mids and takes away some low fundamentals and harmonics, just like a regular screamer would do. For boosting a cranked vintage style amp for leads it's cool, but not exactly for providing extra hi-gain kick for rhythm, specially not scooped rhythm. Only metal amp can work there properly.

Very spiff tone! It sounds like there is some special sauce over the entire mix as well. Nicely done. I haven't tried revalver yet but I'm going to now.



Almost forgot, Amplitude metal is $99 and now ships with a stealth plug which is a starter recording interface not much bigger than a guitar jack. So the price is right and the focus in on metal. But after hearing the revalver version, I'm going to have to look in to getting that one too.

Thanks a lot Todd. There was a bit of multiband compression done on the master, but ReValver gives out a more natural signal to work with, which is more important. Making certain frequencies more prominent is only "make-up", if they are not good in the start, they will be like that later too. Ofc, I'm far from being experienced in mastering techniques, just use trial&error knowledge.
Peavey is signing this plugin, so I'm guessing they tried to model their amps the best way they could. This was 6505+ emulation, and the whole plugin was recommended to me by an experienced player who uses the same amp. It sounded right and closest to the amp. I'm not an expert, but I suspect the integrated impulse response cabinet emulation in ReValver plays an important role of the sound behaving closer to the real thing.
I definitely suggest checking it out, at least a demo. It has bunch of interesting options, including VST Host module feature.

Just downloaded the demo for Macintosh today. Look forward to playing with it. Thanks!

I found another preset that I like even better than the last one. Just love the gain and crunch! It's based on

1.)Randall Warhead 300
2.)Fender MH-1 Cabinet
3.)Rack Tube Compressor
4.)Neuman Condenser Mic

*I think the Neuman is a crucial bit. I use a condenser mic for my "real world" rig and nothing comes close for tone when comparing it to dynamic mics like the SM-57.

Here are some pics of the preset and the new version.

Yeah, it's a lot more aggressive sounding. I like this one alot too. I'm going to have to break down at some point and decide which plugin route to invest in first $

Decisions decisions I'd like to have both. The Amplitude metal plugin is going for half price from where I bought it. The peavey plugin looks to be around $250 but but sounds well worth it. You can down load a demo of the peavey plugin to give it a shot.

http://www.peavey.com/products/revalver/downloads.html

Todd

i love revalver...it sounds very natural and it reacts to my pick like a real amp...xaxa...seriously i tryed the most plug ins and this one is the best amp immitation...used it for all of my lessons...they will be up soon ... and i would like a peavey revalver tee!

It was Lale who recommended the ReValver to me in the first place, it's definitely a thing to use for metal, specially rhythm.

Awesomeness. And Lale, welcome to GMC! Looking forward to learning from you! Revalver. I'm going to have to play with it some more. I'm still trying to figure out which bullet to bite first. My piggy bank is still a little lean from my last purchase lol.

Christian A.

I've been messing with Guitar Rig 4 recently and I must say I"m really impressed. Here is a guitar rhythm and a lead recorded clean and at very low volume. Found a couple of stock patches in gtr4 and bingo. With some tweaking, sky is the limit. Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Todd

Very nice tone. Did you add reverb as recording sounds a bit too roomy? I like the tone character though its a bit digital sounding for my taste.

GR4 has some nice tones for sure!

I think I did wash it a bit much with reverb. Hmm. Here is another patch for guitar rig 4. This one is kinda high gain with an octaver on it. I'm using it for the Composing collaboration with Kris Dahl. Enjoy!
Click to view attachment

Practice!
Todd