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Darius Wave
Hi the mate. Let's work on improving Your mixes. Let's start from some very basic things. At first we have to find why guitars sound more like a mono. For that purpose You have to shoe me and descripe WHOLE signal chain of any guitar. To get good doubled rhythm guitars You have to remember that You can't send all the guitar tracks to just one plug-in /channel or group. Every guitar has to gave independent amp sim and independet Kefi. Both amp sim and Kefir can be MONO...but plugged on every single track of guitar.

At first leave only two tracks of guitars so we could easily find the reason of Your problem. Try to mix them 100% left + 100% right and send me (post attachment) only guitars mixed to stereo.


Just a little reminder to make shure. Doubled guitars power is based on two guitar tracks with exactly the same part BUT played twice. You record part 1 and throw it to the lef. Then You go to the beginning and once again record the same thing...then pan it 100% right. Copying guitar tracks doesn't give the effect. You have to play and record same part twice and then mix it together. Understood ?smile.gif
sammetal92
I'm not home at the moment so, till I get home you'll have to wait for me to get my hands on my guitars tongue.gif

I found the problem just by reading your opening post, I didn't record the guitar parts separately, I just made 2 tracks, put the same effects on both of them, panned one to 100 right and the other to 100 left and hit the record button on both of them and recorded both channels at the same time mellow.gif
Darius Wave
QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 26 2013, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not home at the moment so, till I get home you'll have to wait for me to get my hands on my guitars tongue.gif

I found the problem just by reading your opening post, I didn't record the guitar parts separately, I just made 2 tracks, put the same effects on both of them, panned one to 100 right and the other to 100 left and hit the record button on both of them and recorded both channels at the same time mellow.gif




That's what I thought smile.gif This is the whole secret of making doubled guitars. Even if You're very precise there will always be some tiny differances in dynamics, timming and articulations that will make it sound like two guitars together. This is also one of the best methods of trying out Your skills. If You can record something in double and it still is clear and easy to catch each note, than You're sure You mastered the lick. Copying the tracks is nothing else like switching from mono to stereo. I'm glad we found the problem.

Even if You record the same track twice You can still mess things uop by sending both to a one, grouped amp sim. Treat each track with independent amp sim, cab sim and pan but....You can save some CPU usage by sending both track to a common group track with common,stereo reverb, compression and eq smile.gif
sammetal92
But what about bass and lead guitar? I don't think they should be panned, because from what I understand, bass and lead guitars should be in the center space of the song rather than the sides. Am I right?

Also, you said we can group the tracks into one to put on final effects like reverb and equalization, but we would still have to have the exact same settings on the stack on both of the guitar tracks, right?
Darius Wave
1. Yes...bass and lead guitar goes to the center.

2. More details needed. It depend on particular situation. Same reverb setting and eq for rhythm guitars (one melody riff twice on two tracks L/R) - YES. Other instruments...it depends. We will go to that to but not too many at the same time. When You'll be back home send me guitars in stereo...I mean only the rhythm distortion guitars panned L/R. We will do this step by step...Otherwise You won't get the point smile.gif We'll go back to the reverbs soon smile.gif First I have to get stereo track og raw guitars panned correctly. We will talk about EQ-ing then. Time for reverb and compression is later smile.gif
sammetal92
I actually went ahead and experimented with 4 and 2 tracks. I panned 60% left and right to the middle tracks in the 4 quad tracking file. The reverb is only on the 100% left and right tracks, even in the quad tracking file.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Oh, and no equalization and nothing applied on the guitars, just the raw guitar track with distortion and cab simulation on it, with just a hint of compressor.

And yes, this time I played and recorded on individual tracks 4 times biggrin.gif it did make a lot of difference smile.gif
Darius Wave
Now it's how it should be ! smile.gif Nice and warm guitar tone. I see You want the quad guitar tracks so much so...let it be but remember...There more times You record the same part, the precise You have to be. I think You should focus and give 200% from You too record those guitars precicely as hell. Otherwise the image of the lick is blurry.


Please turn off the compressor. I'll show You some trick. Now the problem is that regular compression decreases the whole frequency renage volume while there is a boost only in some low end. This is why the attack dissappear while You do the palm muting. We're gonna treat it other way. We need some multiband compressor. Have You got any plug-in like this?
sammetal92
I have a basic compressor VST from Audiocation called AC-1: https://www.audiocation.de/plugin

I couldn't understand Reaper's stock compressor plugin. If you can give me the link to a good one, that'll be great because I don't know much about compressors, they always seem to confuse me, so I keep them simple smile.gif
sammetal92
The multiband compressor that comes with Reaper is ReaXComp, it is supposedly good according to internet reviews. But I never understood compressors completely, let alone multiband compressors.
audiopaal
I'm sorry to interrupt, but since you are talking about compressors... smile.gif

I don't really know of any great free multiband compressors, but that one is really cheap and should work nicely on a guitar track.
The SSi Pro Compressor, which is on sale for 9$.
http://www.pluginboutique.com/product/8-Co...-Pro-Compressor

However, this is a great free Bus Compressor: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/2012/0...mastering-grade/ smile.gif

This one you put on your bus track (stereo out) when you are mixing your song. Makes your mix tighter smile.gif

Oh, and if you want a compresoor that works for anything you should save up some money and buy this: http://www.softube.com/index.php?id=cc
Expensive, but works magic on any track smile.gif

I just mixed Incipit's Promo album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=dm7bAxZrm2I

So If Darius don't mind I can help out a bit as well if you want.

Again, I'm sorry if this is out of place, just thought I'd try to help out a little smile.gif
sammetal92
Not at all audiopaal smile.gif thanks loads for sharing all those plugins, I'm gonna look into them and see what I can get smile.gif

Nice work there, you really know your mixing and mastering tongue.gif it'd be great if I can get help from everyone who can give help biggrin.gif

I was just saying that generally, compressors confuse me, even though I know their function, I know stuff about attack, release, output gain, soft knee etc etc. but still applying them is confusing to me, but I think I'll get the hang of it when I experiment enough smile.gif
audiopaal
QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 27 2013, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not at all audiopaal smile.gif thanks loads for sharing all those plugins, I'm gonna look into them and see what I can get smile.gif

Nice work there, you really know your mixing and mastering tongue.gif it'd be great if I can get help from everyone who can give help biggrin.gif

I was just saying that generally, compressors confuse me, even though I know their function, I know stuff about attack, release, output gain, soft knee etc etc. but still applying them is confusing to me, but I think I'll get the hang of it when I experiment enough smile.gif

Thanks smile.gif
No problem, you can also have a look at these: http://www.wavosaur.com/vst/multiband-compressor-plugins.php
Free multiband compressor VTSs. I haven't tried them myself, but you might be able to put them to good use smile.gif

Thanks man, appreciate it. We recorded that in their rehearsal room. Mic'ed up everything and recorded.
14-16 mics only on the drumkit, hehe.. Quadtracked both guitars (with two mics on eah take) etc.
Each song had 40 tracks, so the mixing took a while. It sounds quite different now, than right after the recording smile.gif
From what I had to work with, I must say it sounds pretty good.

I'll see if I can write an explanation on compressors if you want, but it won't be today.

We'll get you up and running, son't you worry about that smile.gif
I can also post some pre and post EQ/Comp/effects examples if you like and you can hear what it actually does to a track.
But I'm quite busy this weekend so it'll have to wait.

Good luck smile.gif
audiopaal
This is a great link explaining Multiband Compressors, with audioclips for reference.
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mixing...-and-mastering/
Should give you a good overview of what a multiband compressor do smile.gif

I can give you a list over the compressors, eqs, effects I like to use when mixing and mastering if you like.
Some of them are quite expensive, but it'll give you a good idea of what I use when I mix songs.
And you can search online for free alternatives (or I can help you find them) to try for yourself.

Waves, Softube and Abbey Road are my go-to tools when mixing.
I use some other stuff as well, but I'll get back to that in a longer post in a few days smile.gif
sammetal92
Woah! Thanks for sharing those, they seem pretty neat! biggrin.gif

And sure mate, anytime you can, but I wouldn't want you to spend that much time just so I can understand compressors tongue.gif I'll give that tutorial a read smile.gif

Sure, if you can, please give me the list of the stuff you use for mixing and mastering, that'd be loads of help to me, because I really don't know anything about mixing and mastering other than equalization laugh.gif I will be asking you for help whenever I need to find any of those free alternatives, but I'll try looking for them myself first, get myself some training cool.gif

I just downloaded a demo version of EZMix, WeePee told me to try it out cause its good for us bedroom musicians tongue.gif but I haven't yet installed it. Have you tried it?

Thanks again! smile.gif
Darius Wave
Your plug-in help is very useful. If I could only ask to not mes about the mixing - I don;t want to make this thread to many things at the same time. I want to do each thing step by step with lots of details so Sammetal92 will understand the machanism of making mixes. I know that it's hard to resist to try explain everything in one post but pleas TRY TO RESIST biggrin.gif I did taht way in the work in progress topis and I saw that Sammetal92 needs veyr detailed help step by step. I don;t mind helping with adding links to some helpfull stuff smile.gif Akai VST pack has a Quadcomp, which is probably one of the best free multibands our there smile.gif

QUOTE (audiopaal @ Jul 27 2013, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a great link explaining Multiband Compressors, with audioclips for reference.
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mixing...-and-mastering/
Should give you a good overview of what a multiband compressor do smile.gif

I can give you a list over the compressors, eqs, effects I like to use when mixing and mastering if you like.
Some of them are quite expensive, but it'll give you a good idea of what I use when I mix songs.
And you can search online for free alternatives (or I can help you find them) to try for yourself.

Waves, Softube and Abbey Road are my go-to tools when mixing.
I use some other stuff as well, but I'll get back to that in a longer post in a few days smile.gif



Yep..I would go for C4 too smile.gif
audiopaal
QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 27 2013, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Woah! Thanks for sharing those, they seem pretty neat! biggrin.gif

And sure mate, anytime you can, but I wouldn't want you to spend that much time just so I can understand compressors tongue.gif I'll give that tutorial a read smile.gif

Sure, if you can, please give me the list of the stuff you use for mixing and mastering, that'd be loads of help to me, because I really don't know anything about mixing and mastering other than equalization laugh.gif I will be asking you for help whenever I need to find any of those free alternatives, but I'll try looking for them myself first, get myself some training cool.gif

I just downloaded a demo version of EZMix, WeePee told me to try it out cause its good for us bedroom musicians tongue.gif but I haven't yet installed it. Have you tried it?

Thanks again! smile.gif


No problem mate smile.gif

I will, I love to talk about mixing anyway so I don't mind spending time in your thread smile.gif
Haven't tried EZMix, I'm not a particular fan of a multiplugin that does everything like the EZMix and iZotope Ozone.
Although the iZotope Ozone is pretty great, I like to make it hard for myself to learn better laugh.gif

It looks good though, the EZMix, so go nuts, I'd love to hear some samples!
sammetal92
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jul 27 2013, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your plug-in help is very useful. If I could only ask to not mes about the mixing - I don;t want to make this thread to many things at the same time. I want to do each thing step by step with lots of details so Sammetal92 will understand the machanism of making mixes. I know that it's hard to resist to try explain everything in one post but pleas TRY TO RESIST biggrin.gif I did taht way in the work in progress topis and I saw that Sammetal92 needs veyr detailed help step by step. I don;t mind helping with adding links to some helpfull stuff smile.gif Akai VST pack has a Quadcomp, which is probably one of the best free multibands our there smile.gif

Yep..I would go for C4 too smile.gif


Hahah yeah, too much of everything can be dangerous tongue.gif So I think I'm gonna stick to the Buzzroom Grandcomp 3 the ReaXcomp and the Akai quadcomp compressors for now tongue.gif I'll try investing in a good compressor later on when I'm experienced enough smile.gif

QUOTE (audiopaal @ Jul 27 2013, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No problem mate smile.gif

I will, I love to talk about mixing anyway so I don't mind spending time in your thread smile.gif
Haven't tried EZMix, I'm not a particular fan of a multiplugin that does everything like the EZMix and iZotope Ozone.
Although the iZotope Ozone is pretty great, I like to make it hard for myself to learn better laugh.gif

It looks good though, the EZMix, so go nuts, I'd love to hear some samples!


Sure thing smile.gif
audiopaal
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jul 27 2013, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your plug-in help is very useful. If I could only ask to not mes about the mixing - I don;t want to make this thread to many things at the same time. I want to do each thing step by step with lots of details so Sammetal92 will understand the machanism of making mixes. I know that it's hard to resist to try explain everything in one post but pleas TRY TO RESIST biggrin.gif I did taht way in the work in progress topis and I saw that Sammetal92 needs veyr detailed help step by step. I don;t mind helping with adding links to some helpfull stuff smile.gif Akai VST pack has a Quadcomp, which is probably one of the best free multibands our there smile.gif

Yep..I would go for C4 too smile.gif


Sure thing, I'll stay out of the mixing part smile.gif
I'll post some links to great plugins if I have any for the stuff you are discussing.

I'm gone, *poof* tongue.gif
sammetal92
Okay, I just tried out the Akai Quadcomp (it was lying around on my hard drive since my brother used it a while ago, but I never really touched any of those plugins), I put it on the master tracks for both clean and distorted guitars, but it made that annoying popping and clicking noise. I thought it must be the buffer size, so I increased it all the way upto 2048 samples, but it had no effect on the popping noise.

So I then tried the Grandcomp 3 plugin, its working fine at the moment, also the ReaXcomp, it works fine too, I tried a few presets. Both of them ran great at 380 samples at 9ms latency, no popping sounds at all. I don't know if its a compatibility issue of the Akai plugins or what, but they don't seem to run perfectly on my computer.
Darius Wave
The reason why we HAVE TO do very little steps is EXACTLY because You're not able to judge anything objectively yet. Plug-ins don't do the job just by turning them on. Each track demand indyvidual treatement. One of the basic mixing rules is to not "overuse" things like compression and eq. Also...instrument sound good as a standalone is not a success. You succeed while everything works together.

I feel You just turned on the Quadcomp, hear how it sound on factory preset, didn't like and turned off. WRONG. Factory preset is worth nothing. Multibands and eq are very fragile tool so before judgin You have to understand what it does and what all the parameters do. From What You wrote I think You have no idea yet. Maybe a bit of treshold but...it's not enough.


Once You understand how to work with multiband , You'll easily handle any other plug-ins because it's not the plug-in that's problem itself.


Without precise adjustment multiband is not working correctly. First of all....the purpose


1. THE PURPOSE - in our case we want to get rid of low end boost while palm muting. We DON'T WANT the multiband to affect any other frequency ranges. So first of all...TURN OFF compression of first 3 (looking from the top) levels. Leave only the lowest one. Then...move the range set-up to make it compress above 200 Hz.


Click to view attachment

Now THE MOST IMPORTANT.

If You don't have it already, just install some spectrum analyzer - VOXENDO SPAN is one of the best free...maybe even best.

Plug it on the the master track of the WHOLE SESSION.

What we need to do is to make eqal both....open strings low level and pal muted strings low level. Use the TRESHOLD know to find the spot, where both levels will be pretty eqal...watching the spectrum analyzer.
sammetal92
This is as close as I could get without taking details out of the palm muted riff at the end:

Click to view attachment

The threshold level is at -20dB on the compressor. And I installed Voxengo Span, it showed the most output from the rhythm guitars at 106Hz when I palm muted.

Click to view attachment
Darius Wave
First thing of all...Those guitars have some weird Computer-liek tone...This is probably something wrong with the phase.

1. Did You plug the multiband for each guitar track independently?
2. Please make One file where first minute would be guitars WITHOUT akai and then WITH...for better comparison. For me the low end sound more tight right now...


Also what is this pickup position...sound very muddy like a neck...

Akai can have problems with operating on more than one track. This could be the reason. But...whis was only to show You have to use multiband. Now You can try some of Audiopal's linked plug-ins and find the one, that's interface feesl most friendly to You. Set the new multiband on each guitar track and try to do exactly the same thing - turn off all other ranges and leave it working only on the low end.

First exapmle was to show You what is the purpose. Now try to adopt it to different plug-ins of the same function smile.gif
sammetal92
Yep, I noticed the robotic effect. That's Quadcomp. The phase is exactly as it was before, I double checked it.

1. Nope, if I tried that, the popping noise comes back, I put the multiband at the master track of the distorted guitars.
2. Here, the first time the riff is played, the guitars have akai quadcomp on. The second time, quadcomp is completely off.

Click to view attachment

The pickup is a humbucker at the bridge position.

I tried Grancomp 3, the effect is very subtle compared to quadcomp, but this is what I got nearly the same settings as they were on quadcomp (the mid and high frequency compression turned off):

Click to view attachment
Darius Wave
1. Second sample is ok. We leave the Quadcomp for now. I would also try to set lower treshold for more compression. We need pal muting to make the "poooff" effect and it means that the attack is more important than the low end. Low and is a false feeling of energy and it covers the lack of attack in palm muting. That's why on the huge cabinet You can feel the pal muting is powerfull but it's the recording that uncovers every details that need some work. The whole palm muted moments in the mix are supported by the bass and bass drum (usually) so Yoiu will feel the power of them even if the guitars lack the low end. If not...the problem is somewhere else. I can already say Your tone is very muddy as for the bridge pickup. Please make a screen of Your guitar track settings. It could be a matter of gain setup or amp simulation.

Also please send me two separated tracks of guitars "dry" signal so I can mess with some simulations at my pc and find where is the problem
sammetal92
I'll try the same settings with ReaXcomp compressor too, see if that gets us somewhere.

Here are my distorted guitar settings, I put the TSE to boost the signal into Poulin soloC, then loaded an impulse in LeCab 2:

Click to view attachment

These are the raw guitar tracks in wave format, I took the raw files from my project folder, they're a bit big in size:

Left track: Click to view attachment
Right track: Click to view attachment

I know they both say left, but the right one was recorded on the left track then moved to the right track.
Darius Wave
Now i know what's going on.


First of all...unfortunately palm muting is a thing You need to work on...it's too soft and the notes are not separated enough

Seconf thing gain amount is too big

Third. Add some more treble boost in the TSE808

4th...make sure nothing interferes You your pickups with electro-magnetic field...I hear too much noise even when I descrease the gain. Maybe use better chord or move away from the m,onitor or computer while recording (anything with transformer)


5th...Your guitar coiuld be muddy...what guitar is use in the recording?
sammetal92
I have a fan running near me, and the light plus the computer. All those could be causing interference. The guitar goes directly into the line in port of my computer's sound card.

I use a handmade guitar, I have my ESP M-II near me but its tuned to standard. Here, I recorded the riff in stereo with my ESP M-II and turned its pitch down by 1 semitone, there's no equalization or compression or any other effects than the ones I showed you that make up my tone (TSE808, LeCab2 and SoloC):

Click to view attachment

I have another FX chain saved which uses Ignite amps for a softer but still overdriven rhythm tone with very low bass, would you like me to post the riffs with that? Or I can show you the screenshot of that chain too.

EDIT: Oh, I also turned the tone knob on the TSE808 at 3 o clock, and turned the Overdrive knob on the amp to 2. I just tested the guitar tracks in my song project and they fit a lot better in the mix than before.
Darius Wave
So You are using PC buil-in soundcard or You own any external audio interface? Soundblaster's line in also causes a lot of noise. Tomorrow I'll send You a screen of some settings suggestions and comparison with guitars recorded by me. You will have both in the same tracks so You could refer to it while trying to find best playing way (playing is the key). don' be afraid to "hit your guitar like a man" biggrin.gif I think You can play twice as hard as You do now. Those palm muted notes are playd way too soft.

As for the plug-ins I already found that for rhythm guitars with 1on-pres5 imulse You can asily go down to zero with the middle knob of the am. i also switched off the boost option. My gainset up is "0" on SOLO C . because I use more boost from the TS808 to affect the treble response with the treble knob about 3/4 position.
sammetal92
Yep, I'm using my PC soundcard and exactly, the line in has too much noise along with the fan, light and computer stuff going on sad.gif

I'm looking into buying a cheap interface, I really like the demos and reviews of behringer ucg102 guitar to usb link, it has almost no noise compared to the direct line in noise I get. In addition to the DI noise, my tone gets some weird coloration too, so its not totally clean, you might have noticed that as well in the raw guitar tracks.

And thanks for the settings and the sound clips mate smile.gif

So you think I should use the my M-II for this?
Darius Wave
So wedetected the first, very important thing that needs improvement - audio recording device. Yes - I've noticed weird tone, sort of treble cut and too much noise but I have a feeling (hard to confirm virtually) that Your guitar has a warm and fat tone. This demand less gain, more treble on the booster or amp, more middle cut, much more power from the right hand ...If You want to get nice and "fast" tone with crunchy pal muting.

You can also try to use thin pick like 0,73 and press so hard that it will rest on the next string after the hit


Here are my samples:


1. Screen of the plug-ins

Click to view attachment


2. Your and mine guitars mixed through those settings


Click to view attachment



3. Raw guitar Direct sound L and R file so You could have a reference files for getting better tone and signal level just by changing Your playing method.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
sammetal92
I'll give you a recording as soon as I get something good to record with man, I don't want to throw so many mp3 files at you tongue.gif
Darius Wave
I get it smile.gif It's good idea. Otherwise You'll be never sure if it's You who need to make better playing or it's the gear that doesn't sound ok
sammetal92
Sorry for the long delay tongue.gif Here's how it sounds, I did a bit of tweaking, I tried to pinpoint the bass frequencies we wanted to take out, using my car's stereo, my computers sound system and my heaphones.

Oh any my dad made a USB interface for me which I made this with cool.gif I thought I'd save some money for an M-Audio interface, so I didn't buy any interface yet, I'll buy the M-audio as soon as I can.

Click to view attachment
Darius Wave
Sound much better! Much more clarity! Great work! Now...show me the beast that's in You. Gimme the hardest picking on palm muted notes as possible and do the mix again biggrin.gif


Please...do one more track.Add the bass with NO EQ so I can see how it sounds dry. We'll go to bass eq soon smile.gif
sammetal92
I spent so much time today training myself to hit the strings as hard as possible without them getting out of tune, because once I hit them too hard and they went a whole step flat in tuning laugh.gif I guess I don't know my own strength tongue.gif

Here is what I just recorded. Its not perfect palm muting but I think its a bit better than before smile.gif Same file name as before but its a different recording.

Click to view attachment

Here's the bass without any equalization, I think I need to record bass directly into my sound card without using my interface. My interface lowers the volume of the guitar signal so that the effects can come in without boosting it too much that it clips. I tried to keep it as loud as possible, but this isn't as good as it was with the direct line in:

Click to view attachment
Darius Wave
QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Aug 3 2013, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I spent so much time today training myself to hit the strings as hard as possible without them getting out of tune, because once I hit them too hard and they went a whole step flat in tuning laugh.gif I guess I don't know my own strength tongue.gif

Here is what I just recorded. Its not perfect palm muting but I think its a bit better than before smile.gif Same file name as before but its a different recording.

Click to view attachment

Here's the bass without any equalization, I think I need to record bass directly into my sound card without using my interface. My interface lowers the volume of the guitar signal so that the effects can come in without boosting it too much that it clips. I tried to keep it as loud as possible, but this isn't as good as it was with the direct line in:

Click to view attachment



I'll go to the bass analysis later...As for the guitars I think that now they have more noise but it's not a hum anymore. As for the palm muting more samples needed (sorry) tongue.gif Please try to make a one file comparison between interface and line-in signals mixed through the same plug-ins set-up. Try to move Your right hand a bit towards the neck pickup so You'll get more percussive tone and less muddy sound. Make sure Your guitar knobs are fully turned to max becase traditional, passive guitar electronics has some treble loss on the volume pot when decreasing the volume. It affects the palm muting.

We're doing this to find out the better option - line in or interface and also we are working on the most IMPORTANT thing ever - tone from You gear before making any mixing. This is soo important and that's why I want to give in maximum attention smile.gif I hope You understand smile.gif
sammetal92
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 4 2013, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll go to the bass analysis later...As for the guitars I think that now they have more noise but it's not a hum anymore. As for the palm muting more samples needed (sorry) tongue.gif Please try to make a one file comparison between interface and line-in signals mixed through the same plug-ins set-up. Try to move Your right hand a bit towards the neck pickup so You'll get more percussive tone and less muddy sound. Make sure Your guitar knobs are fully turned to max becase traditional, passive guitar electronics has some treble loss on the volume pot when decreasing the volume. It affects the palm muting.

We're doing this to find out the better option - line in or interface and also we are working on the most IMPORTANT thing ever - tone from You gear before making any mixing. This is soo important and that's why I want to give in maximum attention smile.gif I hope You understand smile.gif


That's the plugin I think, because I turned the volume knob all the way off and there was still that noise, because my interface wasn't picking up the overdrive from the plugins, I turned up the drive knob to a little over 2 on my amp (soloC). I'll try changing my position to see if it sounds better, and my guitar's knobs are almost always all the way up tongue.gif

Would you recommend active pickups? Because I'm working on a preamp, that should take away the noise generated by the guitar cable and less interference from pickups. All the noise that would remain after that would be the plugins smile.gif I didn't use any noise gate on the recording, if I use a noise gate, that noise goes away, should I use the gate?

And I will get you another take right after I practice my palm muting today smile.gif hopefully we'll see some improvement.

EDIT: Oh one more thing: I noticed I get a much more deeper bass on line in than my interface on my guitar, the interface keeps the treble.
Darius Wave
Jus make a comparison I mantioned and we'll make a choice. I can recomend to make some tests with Your angle and distance from the PC, monitor etc. Sometimes it's enough when You turn around about 90 degress to the monitor. You can Try to mess a bit with the line in input level in thw windows settings.


As for the active pickups it's a matter of choice. They have some advantages but also some things not to be ok for some players. Main advantage is the minimum level of noise because the coil is very tiny. But don't consider they will fix anything more than the signal level and noise.
sammetal92
Okay here it is, the first riff is the one recorded via interface, the second one is direct input via line in:

Click to view attachment

Regarding the noise issue, I quite like Audacity, even though it won't be very good for editing full songs. I used Audacity on the riff recorded via interface and used the noise removal to remove 20db of the noise, I think the result is pretty neat. I don't think this much noise would be a problem, it can be removed through software without compromise on quality, but I personally think the tone of my guitars is rich compared to direct line in:

Click to view attachment
Darius Wave
No when You made this comparison I have a problem because the line input is much more noiseless...Even some of the hum is gone that had been there before. But You're right about the treble. Is there any chance to increase the input level from the interface? Also...I think You could try to add a bit of gain now. I have a weird feeling that there is still a bit more You could do at the instrument stage. Have You tried tin piks like 0,73? You press them that hard as they slip to rest on the next string from the one You actually play on smile.gif Can You make a sample with:

1. Denoised guitars via Audacity plug-in
2. A little more gain from the SoloC
3. Thinner pick involved



You can also try to use TSE X50 plug in...very good attack even with a bit muddy inpout tone
sammetal92
Yes, I have a boss DS-1, I can use it to boost the input a little, I've used it a bit as a boost before, it sometimes colors the tone if I put it on too high, but yeah I can use it with a little volume smile.gif

I have a 0.46 pick, but not a 0.73 I'm afraid sad.gif 0.46 is really soft, it just wobbles around. Want me to try with that?

I will get you a sample ASAP, thanks for your patience with me! biggrin.gif

EDIT: Oh wait, I have a Clayton David Bollt pick, its 0.8mm, I think that's better than the 0.46 one
Darius Wave
QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Aug 4 2013, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, I have a boss DS-1, I can use it to boost the input a little, I've used it a bit as a boost before, it sometimes colors the tone if I put it on too high, but yeah I can use it with a little volume smile.gif

I have a 0.46 pick, but not a 0.73 I'm afraid sad.gif 0.46 is really soft, it just wobbles around. Want me to try with that?

I will get you a sample ASAP, thanks for your patience with me! biggrin.gif

EDIT: Oh wait, I have a Clayton David Bollt pick, its 0.8mm, I think that's better than the 0.46 one


You're right ...pick under 0,7 would be way too soft smile.gif You Can make and experiment with that boss but rather a volume boost than distortion from it smile.gif
sammetal92
Here you go, just a tiny bit more gain on the Solo C, with a 0.8mm pick, a little input boost from my pedal and just a tiny bit of noise removal with Audacity, nothing intense smile.gif Sorry there was a delay, I actually injured my finger while I was setting up my stuff for playing, so I Had to stop playing for a day to get back in shape smile.gif

Click to view attachment
Darius Wave
QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Aug 7 2013, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here you go, just a tiny bit more gain on the Solo C, with a 0.8mm pick, a little input boost from my pedal and just a tiny bit of noise removal with Audacity, nothing intense smile.gif Sorry there was a delay, I actually injured my finger while I was setting up my stuff for playing, so I Had to stop playing for a day to get back in shape smile.gif

Click to view attachment



Now this is probably the best as far! smile.gif Good job smile.gif Now the palm muting has enough attack smile.gif Let's leave it this way. I think that more precission in playing will come with time smile.gif But this is quite big step further smile.gif Congratulations smile.gif


Now...we won't mix the guitars with the bass. We will mix the bass with the drums. Please send me drums only mix so I can check if everything is ok with them before doing next parts smile.gif


Those details are very important - raw audio files are the key to good mix smile.gif
sammetal92
One drum track coming up biggrin.gif This is the whole drum track of the song, the bassline isn't complete, my drummer friend sent me a wav file and I had to convert it, it was BIG tongue.gif The bit rate is 192kbps though, not 128 smile.gif

Click to view attachment

Darius Wave
I get it...You have no interaction on the single drum tracks yep ?smile.gif

If so then we will fit other instruments to those drums. Launch the drums and the Spectrum analyzer. Se...what is the loudest freq in the bass drum...the one that would be highest in the spectrum while You hear drum beats smile.gif Write me what is the value of this freq smile.gif
sammetal92
Around 85 hertz I can see the bass drum hit its peak
Darius Wave
Now add the bass track and make a huge but ver narrow cut at this particular frequency. Watch the spectrum analyzer very closely. Now add the bass volume to make it surround the bass drum peak frequency...not to boost it. Do it before You do anny additional boosts or cuts to the bass track
sammetal92
Do you want me to cut the bass drum frequency on the drum track, bass track or the master track? And how would I increase the volume of the bass at that frequency without boosting it? I don't quite understand huh.gif
Darius Wave
Bass drum loudest frequency is always the same so it's easier to remove it by eq on the bass guitar track. This and a Sidechain compression are two of best way to get solid, balanced low end. Make a deep cut but very narrow Q.
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