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Darius Wave
Hey mate! Post Your latest song from YT in the very first post and try to make detailed list of what gear and software You use for Your recordings wink.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 23 2013, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey mate! Post Your latest song from YT in the very first post and try to make detailed list of what gear and software You use for Your recordings wink.gif


lets see if i do this right haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl3EVXzPuXU

gear :
Line 6 Gx
Guitar rig 5
Reaper
Ez Drummer (dfh)
TrackS3 (EQ,Compression)
Bitter Sweet Flux 2

That's all I'm using currently!
Darius Wave
Great so let's start some fixes. Please send me (here as an attachment) a stereo mix of only drums tracks. Bestif it could be wav 16 bit PCM. I will take a close look at the spectrum analyzer and give You some tips where You could look at. At the same time please download and install Voxendo Span:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

It's probably one of the most efficient free analyzer plug-in out there. I'll show You how to work with it so You could judge how much You can trust Your speakers and how much thye analyzer (to make Your mix sound good not only on Your own speakers) smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 24 2013, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great so let's start some fixes. Please send me (here as an attachment) a stereo mix of only drums tracks. Bestif it could be wav 16 bit PCM. I will take a close look at the spectrum analyzer and give You some tips where You could look at. At the same time please download and install Voxendo Span:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

It's probably one of the most efficient free analyzer plug-in out there. I'll show You how to work with it so You could judge how much You can trust Your speakers and how much thye analyzer (to make Your mix sound good not only on Your own speakers) smile.gif



ok man lets hope I did it right! and i'm going to download that analyzer now! thanks for the help man.
One of them is the drums and the other one is the whole track using the new plug in! sucks that it cuts out because it's the demo verson :/ good thing I got a job today haha
Darius Wave
Two very important things


1. Do You setup drums only in the EZ mixer or You use "multitrack option" andedit each drum track as a DAW track?

2. Do You draw to midi file or record from external midi keyboard or something. Bass drum has to low velocity so it doesn't give You full attack and as a result we have only a "plastic" shadow of attack rather than nice and equal attack. Veleocity changes are a must when You have very dense drums parts and don't want to sound like like a drum machine - then it's good to make for example 1 3 5 7 beats with full velocity (127) and bit lower (115) with 2 4 6 8 beats. This is what usually happens naturally while drummer play - even less velocity - usually the faster they play, the less time to give full strength so it's naturall that fast runs are lower "velocity". This is one of the very first things people forget why programming the drums and then they claim that "the drum machine sound unnatrual". The truth is the we can make it sound natural as far as we take some time for deep analyzis of what exactly drummers do - accent, ghost notes, velocity differances.
It's a most important thing to start while learning to program the drums.

In my case when drums play slow parts (in rock metal) the bass drum and snare drum goes with 127 velocity (same with cymbals). It's a matter of tone. Doesn't work with every single beat (there are moments that need lower velocity but those usually are some breaks, cymbal accents on soft parts of the songs, drum rolls snare crescendos)
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 25 2013, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Two very important things


1. Do You setup drums only in the EZ mixer or You use "multitrack option" andedit each drum track as a DAW track?

2. Do You draw to midi file or record from external midi keyboard or something. Bass drum has to low velocity so it doesn't give You full attack and as a result we have only a "plastic" shadow of attack rather than nice and equal attack. Veleocity changes are a must when You have very dense drums parts and don't want to sound like like a drum machine - then it's good to make for example 1 3 5 7 beats with full velocity (127) and bit lower (115) with 2 4 6 8 beats. This is what usually happens naturally while drummer play - even less velocity - usually the faster they play, the less time to give full strength so it's naturall that fast runs are lower "velocity". This is one of the very first things people forget why programming the drums and then they claim that "the drum machine sound unnatrual". The truth is the we can make it sound natural as far as we take some time for deep analyzis of what exactly drummers do - accent, ghost notes, velocity differances.
It's a most important thing to start while learning to program the drums.

In my case when drums play slow parts (in rock metal) the bass drum and snare drum goes with 127 velocity (same with cymbals). It's a matter of tone. Doesn't work with every single beat (there are moments that need lower velocity but those usually are some breaks, cymbal accents on soft parts of the songs, drum rolls snare crescendos)



Yes I'm using the Multitrack option and i edit each track separately,
In this case I used a track from Guitar Pro and imported the midi into Reaper. I will take a look at the bass drum velocity!
Darius Wave
QUOTE (enlo22 @ Oct 25 2013, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes I'm using the Multitrack option and i edit each track separately,
In this case I used a track from Guitar Pro and imported the midi into Reaper. I will take a look at the bass drum velocity!



Try to recheck and improve all tracks velocity
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 25 2013, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try to recheck and improve all tracks velocity


ok i checked all tracks velocity and followed what you said! seems to have improved in my ears, but i'm obviously not the best judge haha!
just wanted to say thanks again for taking the time to guide me through this. looking forward to your reply.
PS: I really need to get a bass!
Darius Wave
Indeed it's better. You loose a lot of energy because of the cymbals being much too quiet Believe me - Your guitar tone is that much clear, that it will cut through the mix even if You add some extra 3 dB's of overheads. I usually set the proportion between overheads and room track in the DFH mixer and than send both to one, stereo DAW track. I usually set the High Pass Filter very high to get rid of all the low and boomy mids out of the cymbals. Can You show me Your symbals EQ print screen?

Tell me what Reverb plug-ins do You have so we coudl add some space to those drums
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 28 2013, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indeed it's better. You loose a lot of energy because of the cymbals being much too quiet Believe me - Your guitar tone is that much clear, that it will cut through the mix even if You add some extra 3 dB's of overheads. I usually set the proportion between overheads and room track in the DFH mixer and than send both to one, stereo DAW track. I usually set the High Pass Filter very high to get rid of all the low and boomy mids out of the cymbals. Can You show me Your symbals EQ print screen?

Tell me what Reverb plug-ins do You have so we coudl add some space to those drums



I don't have any eq in the cymbals at allll! the only reverb I have is the reverb that comes with reaper :/
Darius Wave
QUOTE (enlo22 @ Oct 28 2013, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't have any eq in the cymbals at allll! the only reverb I have is the reverb that comes with reaper :/



One of most common tips is having more than one tracks (groups / fx tracks) of the same reverb with different length but the same color and room size / predelay settings.

for example sometimes snare like long reverb at full spectrum to sound natural while cymbals would make a lot of mess at the same reverb settings. Basic process looks like this:

1. Add 2 separated, stereo FX channels
2. Turn on some reverb on both
3. Setup the roomsize (both the same)
4. Set up length / decay - like short one and long one (0,4 and 0,8 s for example)
5. Set mix to 100% wet
6. Use send option from each drum track to send only as much signal to reverb as necessary

This sould help a bit:



Try to get familiar with this and let me know so we can progress with "how to find best reverb setting and mix"
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 28 2013, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of most common tips is having more than one tracks (groups / fx tracks) of the same reverb with different length but the same color and room size / predelay settings.

for example sometimes snare like long reverb at full spectrum to sound natural while cymbals would make a lot of mess at the same reverb settings. Basic process looks like this:

1. Add 2 separated, stereo FX channels
2. Turn on some reverb on both
3. Setup the roomsize (both the same)
4. Set up length / decay - like short one and long one (0,4 and 0,8 s for example)
5. Set mix to 100% wet
6. Use send option from each drum track to send only as much signal to reverb as necessary

This sould help a bit:



Try to get familiar with this and let me know so we can progress with "how to find best reverb setting and mix"


I set one to .4 and the other to .8ms
sent tracks over to them and here's what i have! man i see the improvement and it's awesome, i feel like the crappy mixes damped my guitar playing before.
Darius Wave
And now the low end of bass drum is not tham boomy and annoying smile.gif That's clear progress smile.gif DFH overheads are already highly eq-ed some in some cases they are ok without any additional EQ-ing. Now let's make some bass.

You have a lot of different options for it but let's start from the simpliest smile.gif

Try to get:

4Front bass (it's free, You ) - You can write Your bass through midi and it'll sound pretty natural

Amplitube 1.1 has a nice rock solid bass preset that will add more rock/metal spirit to that bass

Let me know when You get those
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 31 2013, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And now the low end of bass drum is not tham boomy and annoying smile.gif That's clear progress smile.gif DFH overheads are already highly eq-ed some in some cases they are ok without any additional EQ-ing. Now let's make some bass.

You have a lot of different options for it but let's start from the simpliest smile.gif

Try to get:

4Front bass (it's free, You ) - You can write Your bass through midi and it'll sound pretty natural

Amplitube 1.1 has a nice rock solid bass preset that will add more rock/metal spirit to that bass

Let me know when You get those


I downloaded the 4front bass. can i use guitar rig with it? and i tried the midi thing but it's soooo complicated for me to get the timing right idk why!!
Darius Wave
QUOTE (enlo22 @ Oct 31 2013, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I downloaded the 4front bass. can i use guitar rig with it? and i tried the midi thing but it's soooo complicated for me to get the timing right idk why!!



Well ...try to Youe snap option and select rhythm values to algin too in You Daw. Of course if You didn't do it Yet. Drawing with "snap" otion on is even easier that manually playing the keyboard. But if it's "off" than it could take a bit more time
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 1 2013, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well ...try to Youe snap option and select rhythm values to algin too in You Daw. Of course if You didn't do it Yet. Drawing with "snap" otion on is even easier that manually playing the keyboard. But if it's "off" than it could take a bit more time


here's a bit of it with bass. My computer has been lagging like crazy!! so idk what to do! i probably need more RAM because it's impossible to work with at the moment :/
Darius Wave
Yes indeed it might be a matter of RAM. Unfortunatel while inscreasing the usage of DAW abilities it does take more and more CPU and RAM ussage. Also what are You PC parameters?
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 4 2013, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes indeed it might be a matter of RAM. Unfortunatel while inscreasing the usage of DAW abilities it does take more and more CPU and RAM ussage. Also what are You PC parameters?


to be honest i have no idea, it's honestlly a piece of crap, i plan on getting a new one soon. As for now do you have anymore tips on mixing?? i've really been enjoying this mentoring thing!
Darius Wave
I'm sorry - I've been switching to a new PC myself because it did suck too smile.gif I can't promise it's true but with some older PC devices I had always some problem with any kind of USB audio device. Now I have a Presonus firewire 1394 and it worked best from anything I had. I was stable as hell even on my old PC. I could work with a lot of tracks and tons of vst (I use mostly vst) so You might be another example of interface limitations more than PC itself. I had this GX too and I was able to work with a guitar tracks only pretty well but...I porly handled full sessions. Is Your PC a notebook or a regular "huge" PC that You could plug (cheap as hell) firewire additional card for PCI and then plug a Firewire audio interface (worth thinking of buying one...even used and old one) I bet Your memory problems starts at the level of GX....
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 12 2013, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sorry - I've been switching to a new PC myself because it did suck too smile.gif I can't promise it's true but with some older PC devices I had always some problem with any kind of USB audio device. Now I have a Presonus firewire 1394 and it worked best from anything I had. I was stable as hell even on my old PC. I could work with a lot of tracks and tons of vst (I use mostly vst) so You might be another example of interface limitations more than PC itself. I had this GX too and I was able to work with a guitar tracks only pretty well but...I porly handled full sessions. Is Your PC a notebook or a regular "huge" PC that You could plug (cheap as hell) firewire additional card for PCI and then plug a Firewire audio interface (worth thinking of buying one...even used and old one) I bet Your memory problems starts at the level of GX....



i'm glad you got a good pc now! yeah mine is just an old laptop lol a gateway from 2008! i think a new interface would improve performance as well! also purchasing a bass lol
Darius Wave
Good interface really deos a job but I'm still confused about usb devices. Mostly about not knowing the reason of direct monitoring issues...:/ I now own Presonus audio box usb at work and still didn't find a good setup that solves the problem. Now funny thing - I've got a pretty old presonus inspire 1394 firewire at home...and it's stable as hell and even works perfect with new PC.

Did You try to change the buffer size of gx processing?
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 14 2013, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good interface really deos a job but I'm still confused about usb devices. Mostly about not knowing the reason of direct monitoring issues...:/ I now own Presonus audio box usb at work and still didn't find a good setup that solves the problem. Now funny thing - I've got a pretty old presonus inspire 1394 firewire at home...and it's stable as hell and even works perfect with new PC.

Did You try to change the buffer size of gx processing?

'

everything with the recording goes well, it's just when i open tons of plug ins lol I think i'll have to wait till i get a better computer and work with what i have now. do you have anymore tips on mixing? i feel like i was really improving and i want to keep on going! smile.gif
Darius Wave
No worries man! But first try to answer about the buffer size (it's changeable in the GX control panel). You can always make smaller buffer and turn of some of the plug-ins when You want to record guitars but...When You need more memory usage for finall mixing, You can make huge buffer size.

Believe me...Your PC is not that bad. I'm so pissed of for all those usb audio devices. Firewire wa much more stable I handled way advanced sessions with tons of plug-ins on the very simple PC. For example:

My old PC was Athlon 2 x 2,6 Dual Core + 2 GB RAM. I used it with Presonus inspire 1394 interface. Worked for Years! I could have virtual drums, all drums vst plug-ins added, a few reverbs on the FX sends, Virtual orchestra , Virtual keyboards, at least 3 to 4 amp sim + 1 bass amp sim and compressors, EQs and a lot more in one session. I could even record guitars with low latency. It worked really fine.

Now ...At work I have Asus KI50 (or something like this) with T4200 (also dual but much more efficient processor than Athlon) 4 Gb ram and a few more parameters like disc sped and ram speed much better than the PC mentioned before. And I plug a USB audio box to it and guess what? It's worth nothing. It works without a crackling only on the highest buffer size wchich is useless for live monitoring while You want to record guitars on the vst amps. I'm angry ass hell because it's very hard to find notebooks with firewire and texas instruments chipset right now and the USB substitute sucks. I wouldn't write this If I didn't try to make it work for almost year.


Good news is...Firewire devices become "old stuff" so they got cheaper, yet more efficient on older PC's. You will probably buy one in the very good price range. Try to google presounus Inspire 1394 firewire
Saoirse O'Shea
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 17 2013, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No worries man! But first try to answer about the buffer size (it's changeable in the GX control panel). You can always make smaller buffer and turn of some of the plug-ins when You want to record guitars but...When You need more memory usage for finall mixing, You can make huge buffer size.

Believe me...Your PC is not that bad. I'm so pissed of for all those usb audio devices. Firewire wa much more stable I handled way advanced sessions with tons of plug-ins on the very simple PC. For example:

My old PC was Athlon 2 x 2,6 Dual Core + 2 GB RAM. I used it with Presonus inspire 1394 interface. Worked for Years! I could have virtual drums, all drums vst plug-ins added, a few reverbs on the FX sends, Virtual orchestra , Virtual keyboards, at least 3 to 4 amp sim + 1 bass amp sim and compressors, EQs and a lot more in one session. I could even record guitars with low latency. It worked really fine.

Now ...At work I have Asus KI50 (or something like this) with T4200 (also dual but much more efficient processor than Athlon) 4 Gb ram and a few more parameters like disc sped and ram speed much better than the PC mentioned before. And I plug a USB audio box to it and guess what? It's worth nothing. It works without a crackling only on the highest buffer size wchich is useless for live monitoring while You want to record guitars on the vst amps. I'm angry ass hell because it's very hard to find notebooks with firewire and texas instruments chipset right now and the USB substitute sucks. I wouldn't write this If I didn't try to make it work for almost year.


Good news is...Firewire devices become "old stuff" so they got cheaper, yet more efficient on older PC's. You will probably buy one in the very good price range. Try to google presounus Inspire 1394 firewire


Sorry for butting in just to echo what Darius is saying and I thought that Darius may find this helpful/interesting:

FW sends data as a bidirectional stream rather than as packets, which is how USB does audio. Part of the thing with packet transmission is that the device has to wait until it has received all of the packet before it can start to receive/send a new one. FW also has dedicated bus bandwidth for the synchronous/isosynchronous stream whilst USB shares a bus with other devices. USB can therefore suffer audio issues that just doesn't occur with FW. FW also taxes the cpu much less than USB as it has a dedicated controller. All of this results in a situation where FW is better at audio than USB 1, 1.1 and 2.

USB audio performance is much better though if you use stream length asynchronous USB but many, particularly the prosumer models, only use adaptive mode. Asynchronous here results in lower jitter than adaptive as the latter needs to check the computer's master clock every 1ms or so via a frequency synthesiser. As the computer is doing many other things you end up with timing variations in the audio transfer which in turn induce jitter and you end up with what sounds like a distorted and noisy signal.

If you use USB it may be worth checking where the card is placed and what other peripherals it shares that with. You might possibly get a performance improvement by moving the card to a different slot and so change what devices share with it. But performance is also abut how good the drivers and hardware are. If you use audio device which has poor drivers and poor chips it won't matter if its FW or USB it will still suck.

If you're getting clicks and pops these may be down to timing/jitter. If this is the case you should set one device as the master clock and slave any other external device to it. There are other, often more probable, causes of pops and clicks though starting with the usual buffer size. Others include incorrect transfer settings for an IDE hard drive (it should be DMA), background tasks running, old PCI cards sending interupts to the cpu...
enlo22
I think i found a good solution which is to use Podfarm to send the clean signal to reaper and then i set up the GX into reaper as an ASIO instead of ASIO4ALL because that's why it was lagging like crazyyy. I also found the buffer size, which also helped! smile.gif thanks for the tip, when i have money i'lll look into other interfaces which would work better for me! i'm going to send you some of the thigns i've been working on so you can have a look at it!
enlo22
here's something new, it's part of a song i'm working on now smile.gif as always your mixing tips are super welcomed!
still now bass though :/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWZBGQqCbHY
Darius Wave
Nice work! Your nex raw song sample sounds better. The lack of bass hurts as hell. Did You try to launch 4fronbass after You figured out about the correct asio option ?smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 18 2013, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nice work! Your nex raw song sample sounds better. The lack of bass hurts as hell. Did You try to launch 4fronbass after You figured out about the correct asio option ?smile.gif


yes I finally figured out the ASIO thing! smile.gif i agree the lack of bass does impact it :/ hopefully i can get my hands on one soon! as for the fronbass i will have to deff add it for now, just trying to get the guitar parts to mash up well lol, i can't think of an ending for the track!
Darius Wave
The problem is that...guitars are the juicy middle frequencies in the mix. Take a close look at some modern recording...Se how thin guitar sounds when it's left alone for some "no bass, no drums" break. Whole trick about metal music is that people create ultra solid low end feel that we consider guitars being powerfull but the truth is that their power is in the bass drum and bass good fit. This is why It's so important. Messing with guitar low end is useless because You'll might find You have to change everything again once You add the bass smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 19 2013, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem is that...guitars are the juicy middle frequencies in the mix. Take a close look at some modern recording...Se how thin guitar sounds when it's left alone for some "no bass, no drums" break. Whole trick about metal music is that people create ultra solid low end feel that we consider guitars being powerfull but the truth is that their power is in the bass drum and bass good fit. This is why It's so important. Messing with guitar low end is useless because You'll might find You have to change everything again once You add the bass smile.gif



ok here's a part of it with bass that i have added. i'm still super confused now that the bass is added!
Darius Wave
Ok...Now. 4Front bass sounds not good to metal at all. It needs some other plug in...

Try to download Bass tube amplifier here:

http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

and kefir impulse loader.
+ some bass cab impulses

Try to serah from this point. I remember I found some cool ampeg cab impulses

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewtopic...f=32&t=1096

Load ignite amp + kefir to the bass vst audio track inserts. Ignite sounds cooliven without a cab but If You like more sharp tone of the bass than cab impulse will give very cool and sharp midrange.

Also...I think You should make the bass line much more "copy-like" of the guitars to get more solid tone.

All the things we do now relate to the most important aspects of recording. Beofre going to the real mixing thing (eq, compression tec) we need to make sure about all the playing, raw recorded instruments tone fit to each other. Very often when we have those things done well, then mixing is just a soft color change of whole that thing but not the key to make it sound good smile.gif

That's way we took so many attention to

1. Arrange
2. Drums samples choice
3. Velocity
4. bass plug-in choice
5. Bass amp sim plug-in

etc...


Your guitar tone is ok for now and We'll go back to it as quick as we handle the section set up smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 21 2013, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok...Now. 4Front bass sounds not good to metal at all. It needs some other plug in...

Try to download Bass tube amplifier here:

http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

and kefir impulse loader.
+ some bass cab impulses

Try to serah from this point. I remember I found some cool ampeg cab impulses

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewtopic...f=32&t=1096

Load ignite amp + kefir to the bass vst audio track inserts. Ignite sounds cooliven without a cab but If You like more sharp tone of the bass than cab impulse will give very cool and sharp midrange.

Also...I think You should make the bass line much more "copy-like" of the guitars to get more solid tone.

All the things we do now relate to the most important aspects of recording. Beofre going to the real mixing thing (eq, compression tec) we need to make sure about all the playing, raw recorded instruments tone fit to each other. Very often when we have those things done well, then mixing is just a soft color change of whole that thing but not the key to make it sound good smile.gif

That's way we took so many attention to

1. Arrange
2. Drums samples choice
3. Velocity
4. bass plug-in choice
5. Bass amp sim plug-in

etc...


Your guitar tone is ok for now and We'll go back to it as quick as we handle the section set up smile.gif



I actually made the "bass" by using my guitar tongue.gif which i don't know if it's the best idea at all, i just was told to try it by someone. I took the shifter thing and took it down -12 semitones. Maybe it was a dumb idea lol. I have the kefir thing. For some reason i can't seem to get used to writing the stuff on MIDI! it drives me crazy, I redid it with the ignite amp, and this is what it came out like
Darius Wave
No I'm afraid it still doesn't do the job. I tried many times but:

1. Once going octave down with audio processing, the tune is not stable enough
2. Bass guitar will have much more high mid and treble harmonics which makes Your bass have nice attack and also will be visible even on laptop speakers smile.gif

Learning how to draw midi files is a must If You want to achieve descent recordings. One of the reasons is that if You're not a skilled piano player You might not get good dynamics and timming results just by playing on the midi keyboard (believe me). I can play keyboard a bit but...very often need to correct the "drawings" anyway because of failed timming or dynamics (maybe You're better piano player than me but...if not...lear to draw - it will help You a lot with maaaany things


I can show You a quick sample of full signal chain for bass metal tone using 4front bass, ignite tube bass amp and kefir + bass impulse. 4Front bass is very muddy sounding precission bass sampler. It's raw sound is far away from being metal but...possible to fit the mix well enough even with it's loss of presence.

Audio sample:

Click to view attachment

Every midi instrument has it's audio output track too so You can insert all the amp sim, cab, eq plug-ins like

1. Ignite amps:

Click to view attachment

2. Kefir impulse loader:

Click to view attachment

3. EQ

Click to view attachment


Those particular screens show You exaclty the settings for this audio sample

IMPORTANT! - those settings are just a "how could it sound" but will not sound well everywhere - each mix needs individual eq-ing.
Those are just a good starting point to tweak As You can see the "boxy" low mids are cutted (that's the space for guitars, toms ,snare body ect in the whole mix). In most of my recordings I usually only need to cut the man bass drum frequency in the bass guitar track and cut those low mids...but this one needs extra high mids addition because raw sample is very dark on it's own. In terms of professional mixing it would probably go to trash and the sound engeneer would say "go and borrow a bass that fit's this kind of playing" rather than trying to make miracles with EQ compression etc. Raw recoreded instruments sound is 80 % sound of the mix.


Here You have the bass impulse I used:

Click to view attachment


You can easily fin Kefir loader to download in google wink.gif


Now I don't know how it looks in reaper but in Cubase when You click on the midi track (the one You send to 4Front bass) You have also a link (place with mouse on the print screen) where You can launch normal (same as regular audio track) options for the sound You get from (not before) the 4Front bass. Rest of the plug-ins will "see it" as a regular bass wave.

Click to view attachment


Try to launch it on Your PC and let me know how it went smile.gif


enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 23 2013, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No I'm afraid it still doesn't do the job. I tried many times but:

1. Once going octave down with audio processing, the tune is not stable enough
2. Bass guitar will have much more high mid and treble harmonics which makes Your bass have nice attack and also will be visible even on laptop speakers smile.gif

Learning how to draw midi files is a must If You want to achieve descent recordings. One of the reasons is that if You're not a skilled piano player You might not get good dynamics and timming results just by playing on the midi keyboard (believe me). I can play keyboard a bit but...very often need to correct the "drawings" anyway because of failed timming or dynamics (maybe You're better piano player than me but...if not...lear to draw - it will help You a lot with maaaany things


I can show You a quick sample of full signal chain for bass metal tone using 4front bass, ignite tube bass amp and kefir + bass impulse. 4Front bass is very muddy sounding precission bass sampler. It's raw sound is far away from being metal but...possible to fit the mix well enough even with it's loss of presence.

Audio sample:

Click to view attachment

Every midi instrument has it's audio output track too so You can insert all the amp sim, cab, eq plug-ins like

1. Ignite amps:

Click to view attachment

2. Kefir impulse loader:

Click to view attachment

3. EQ

Click to view attachment


Those particular screens show You exaclty the settings for this audio sample

IMPORTANT! - those settings are just a "how could it sound" but will not sound well everywhere - each mix needs individual eq-ing.
Those are just a good starting point to tweak As You can see the "boxy" low mids are cutted (that's the space for guitars, toms ,snare body ect in the whole mix). In most of my recordings I usually only need to cut the man bass drum frequency in the bass guitar track and cut those low mids...but this one needs extra high mids addition because raw sample is very dark on it's own. In terms of professional mixing it would probably go to trash and the sound engeneer would say "go and borrow a bass that fit's this kind of playing" rather than trying to make miracles with EQ compression etc. Raw recoreded instruments sound is 80 % sound of the mix.


Here You have the bass impulse I used:

Click to view attachment


You can easily fin Kefir loader to download in google wink.gif


Now I don't know how it looks in reaper but in Cubase when You click on the midi track (the one You send to 4Front bass) You have also a link (place with mouse on the print screen) where You can launch normal (same as regular audio track) options for the sound You get from (not before) the 4Front bass. Rest of the plug-ins will "see it" as a regular bass wave.

Click to view attachment


Try to launch it on Your PC and let me know how it went smile.gif



ok I used the Ignite with the Kefir, and the eq that you posted tongue.gif I changed some of the guitars from a toturial from youtube, so this is the latest sound
Darius Wave
If You can please turn of the guitars for now. Send me just the drums and bass mix. At the moment guitar lay over bass to much. They don't gibe solid low end. Also...drums sound very monophonic. Please list exactly how You set up all drums outputs. Also.. You drums reverb sound like mono fx track ...make sure You add stereo FX track for reverb plug-in. We are styill far away from messing with the mids which is crutial to metal playing - all the feel of heavyness is correct mid scoop. Please install Span and turn it on to the main output track of Your DAW session so You will see frequency analysis of all mix.
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 23 2013, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If You can please turn of the guitars for now. Send me just the drums and bass mix. At the moment guitar lay over bass to much. They don't gibe solid low end. Also...drums sound very monophonic. Please list exactly how You set up all drums outputs. Also.. You drums reverb sound like mono fx track ...make sure You add stereo FX track for reverb plug-in. We are styill far away from messing with the mids which is crutial to metal playing - all the feel of heavyness is correct mid scoop. Please install Span and turn it on to the main output track of Your DAW session so You will see frequency analysis of all mix.


ok so I got Superior Drummer! smile.gif i'm super happy BUT it's new to me, the way I sent the drum tracks are with the multichannel. Here's the bass and drums alone, I think superior drummer might help me hopefully! i've been watching youtube videos and stuff to mixing etc too!
Darius Wave
Great You got supperior. DFH sounds too plastic for my taste. Toomuch post-processing done.

Now...first of All. show me the print screen of SPAN while the bass drum hit. We want to find main bass drum frequency in the low freq range. Try to type the value of the highest point of the low end frewq from the bass drum You choose. We want to cut if from the bass track. Your bass is much to quiet. I think that at least 3-4 dB boost is necessary.
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 25 2013, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great You got supperior. DFH sounds too plastic for my taste. Toomuch post-processing done.

Now...first of All. show me the print screen of SPAN while the bass drum hit. We want to find main bass drum frequency in the low freq range. Try to type the value of the highest point of the low end frewq from the bass drum You choose. We want to cut if from the bass track. Your bass is much to quiet. I think that at least 3-4 dB boost is necessary.


how do I do the print screen! sorry i'm dumb ahha, i iwll boost the bass for now!
enlo22
QUOTE (enlo22 @ Nov 25 2013, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
how do I do the print screen! sorry i'm dumb ahha, i iwll boost the bass for now!



hahha I figured it out on google! so here's the screen shot
Darius Wave
was the bass guitar muted when You were doing that screen ? smile.gif It has to be...we only want to see where's the bass drum main frequency smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 25 2013, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
was the bass guitar muted when You were doing that screen ? smile.gif It has to be...we only want to see where's the bass drum main frequency smile.gif


that's with the bass muted on the other one i had the setting type as RT max so maybe thats why! but this one is just the kickdrum alone
Darius Wave
Ok...what You have to know from this screen is that the bass drum low punch is aroung 65- 67 Hz.


Now watchj this region closely while You add bass guitar. It will probably boost. This way You have only one narrow frequency range that makes this "boom" effect and a loss of nice and equal, whole low end.

One of the ideas is to cut 67 Hz (in this particular case) on the bass guitar track - very narrow but deep cut. Then add the bass volume until You get the feel of nice solid end.Bass will not take away the bass-drum punch because it will lack of it's main frequency.

Whole idea of good mix and arrange is to get freq fullnes and avoid instruments overlaying too much on the same frequencies.

Try to make thatcur in the bass and increase it's volume. You can even cur up to 13dB
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 26 2013, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok...what You have to know from this screen is that the bass drum low punch is aroung 65- 67 Hz.


Now watchj this region closely while You add bass guitar. It will probably boost. This way You have only one narrow frequency range that makes this "boom" effect and a loss of nice and equal, whole low end.

One of the ideas is to cut 67 Hz (in this particular case) on the bass guitar track - very narrow but deep cut. Then add the bass volume until You get the feel of nice solid end.Bass will not take away the bass-drum punch because it will lack of it's main frequency.

Whole idea of good mix and arrange is to get freq fullnes and avoid instruments overlaying too much on the same frequencies.

Try to make thatcur in the bass and increase it's volume. You can even cur up to 13dB



awesome man! deff makes the bass pop out more and not be all mushy haha! anymore things to do? i'm excited cause it's improving!
Darius Wave
ok now I need You to post here raw audio mix of bass drum only! and it's span view screen. Also...if You made any EQ on bass drum already post the settings to (print screen would be best)

Also...The reason we do this is that all audio speakers have different sound - some gaps in freq spectrum, some freq are boosted some a are cut a bit. If We try to fill the whole frequency range equally we have more confidence it will sound ok on many different speakers type.

One of very first trap waiting for beginner mixing guys is that You can make Your record sound good on Your gear but when You go to someone else You hear a lot of things to fix. As a comparison You have Your favorite band record and it does sound either at Your home and Your friends home. This is the most ricky part of mixing. This is also why we have to trust stuff like SPAN to avoid issues that might be caused by our gear or room.

I usually try to make bass guitar flowing around main bass-drum frequency os the both give smooth line in the low end yet still make possible to hear the low bass drum punch without getting it too loud. The problem You have just discovered is one of that trap factors smile.gif You had very narrow freqency range at low end that made You feel it's enough bass in the mix...but...it was probably only on Your speakers
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 26 2013, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ok now I need You to post here raw audio mix of bass drum only! and it's span view screen. Also...if You made any EQ on bass drum already post the settings to (print screen would be best)

Also...The reason we do this is that all audio speakers have different sound - some gaps in freq spectrum, some freq are boosted some a are cut a bit. If We try to fill the whole frequency range equally we have more confidence it will sound ok on many different speakers type.

One of very first trap waiting for beginner mixing guys is that You can make Your record sound good on Your gear but when You go to someone else You hear a lot of things to fix. As a comparison You have Your favorite band record and it does sound either at Your home and Your friends home. This is the most ricky part of mixing. This is also why we have to trust stuff like SPAN to avoid issues that might be caused by our gear or room.

I usually try to make bass guitar flowing around main bass-drum frequency os the both give smooth line in the low end yet still make possible to hear the low bass drum punch without getting it too loud. The problem You have just discovered is one of that trap factors smile.gif You had very narrow freqency range at low end that made You feel it's enough bass in the mix...but...it was probably only on Your speakers



"I need You to post here raw audio mix of bass drum only! and it's span view screen. Also...if You made any EQ on bass drum already post the settings to (print screen would be best)"


I'm confused as to what I need to post here, do I need to put the raw mix of the bass and the kick drum, or just the kickdrum? and the span view of both together? or just the kick drum? Isent you the kickdrums SPAN on the last message
Darius Wave
You press the solo option on the bass drum track, make a mixdown and send it to me smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 27 2013, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You press the solo option on the bass drum track, make a mixdown and send it to me smile.gif



ok here's the kickdrum by itself! hopefully it's what you needed lol
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 27 2013, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You press the solo option on the bass drum track, make a mixdown and send it to me smile.gif


sorry to bother you, but did you get the last kick drum thing i sent?
Darius Wave
No no...it's good You asked because somehow I missed that post.Currently I'm away from my home studio but I'll respond as soon as I could analyze the track and suggest You cut or boost frequencies smile.gif
enlo22
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 2 2013, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No no...it's good You asked because somehow I missed that post.Currently I'm away from my home studio but I'll respond as soon as I could analyze the track and suggest You cut or boost frequencies smile.gif


looking forward to it !
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