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Kristofer Dahl
I don't know if this has been discussed but I find it quite interesting. It's also a good illustration to why we can't teach famous songs here without first clearing (=buying) the copyrights.

From what I understand by clicking the links provided in the article - all famous songs lessons have been removed from youtube - it's unbelievable! blink.gif

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=11778602
Owen
I saw this earlier, its outrageous, its like the attempts to close the tab sites... its just not cool. Who is benefiting from this?
Layzer
he taught me pinch harmonics!!!
Eat-Sleep-andJam
I dont quite understand?

- John
MickeM
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jul 7 2007, 11:41 PM) *
I don't know if this has been discussed but I find it quite interesting. It's also a good illustration to why we can't teach famous songs here without first clearing (=buying) the copyrights.

From what I understand by clicking the links provided in the article - all famous songs lessons have been removed from youtube - it's unbelievable! blink.gif
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=11778602

Whew... the music industry is really trying their best to ruin for people. I hope it all end up with them biting their own tail.

About song lessons on this site, is it very expensive with copyrights or could there be sort of a platina account with access to these?


So where's does the music industry draw limit:
Can a techer learn a pupil a song one on one?
Can a techer learn a group of pupils a song?


I've rumbled about this before. What they do is really scary and if they are allowed to keep on going at this pace soon enough they will stop tribute and cover bands.


I'm not buying another record. I'm no longer supporting someone who's working against me mad.gif
Eat-Sleep-andJam
QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 7 2007, 02:08 PM) *
Whew... the music industry is really trying their best to ruin for people. I hope it all end up with them biting their own tail.

About song lessons on this site, is it very expensive with copyrights or could there be sort of a platina account with access to these?
So where's does the music industry draw limit:
Can a techer learn a pupil a song one on one?
Can a techer learn a group of pupils a song?
I've rumbled about this before. What they do is really scary and if they are allowed to keep on going at this pace soon enough they will stop tribute and cover bands.
I'm not buying another record. I'm no longer supporting someone who's working against me mad.gif




Thats the Spirit! biggrin.gif


-John

Edited - Andrew
Ryan
QUOTE (Layzer @ Jul 7 2007, 04:45 PM) *
he taught me pinch harmonics!!!

Me to. Its sad. He was kind of goofy, but he was a great teacher!! Maybe we can get him on here or something?? Since he got screwed there!!
Evan
Those fools at the record companies are just way out of touch with reality. This is just like what they've been trying to do with shutting down tab sites for along time now.

With the tabs, they felt like they were losing money because with a free tab online, I guess they were afraid no one would buy the official tab book for the song. -But you want to know the real problem is? Those books are very often WRONG. -And I'm not talking about some little mistakes here and there -I'm talking about songs transcribed for he completely wrong tuning, solos not transcribed, entire parts missing, etc. As long as people want to see correct tabs and the copyright holder continues to publish poor quality garbage that we can't use, there's going to be a demand for the unofficial tabs. -Beacuse of this, their attempt to stop these tabs has been a failure that has just brought them more bad press and anger from the same people who's money is paying their bills.

Do you see these free video lessons taking away business from the record companies? No- I'm willing to bet that out of the hundreds, or maybe one thousand or more vidoes they just removed, that there's only a handful of songs on that list that they have published official video lessons for.

My opinion is that if you want to charge money for a lesson, the record company should say fine we can work with you if you want to do that- just give us x percent of what you charged for your lesson and we'll be happy. But instead, they are not willing to compromise. Their greed is too great for them to let the instructor make even one penny.

When did it become illegal to provide original research or instructional material -for free -for the sole pupose of education?

Yes, I'm aware that you can pay for the rights to do a lesson with a copyrighted song right now, but what I'm saying is that they need to do it on fair terms- people wouldn't be complaining if the rates they're asking now were even close to fair.
MickeM
QUOTE (Evan @ Jul 8 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Do you see these free video lessons taking away business from the record companies?

I wouldn't be surprised if these free video lessons could even increase record sales.
Robin
This is redicilous.
Andrew Cockburn
QUOTE (Robin @ Jul 7 2007, 06:51 PM) *
This is redicilous.


Yes, very distasteful ....
Robin
What I REALLY dont get is why they remove tabs! Most tabs on the internet are not even correct god damnit!
I guess, if I for instance tab Run to the hills, but that I just tab it 1 fret higher, its technically not the same song anymore. I wonder if that would work smile.gif
Ryan
QUOTE (Robin @ Jul 7 2007, 06:12 PM) *
What I REALLY dont get is why they remove tabs! Most tabs on the internet are not even correct god damnit!
I guess, if I for instance tab Run to the hills, but that I just tab it 1 fret higher, its technically not the same song anymore. I wonder if that would work smile.gif

Yea, ive always thought about that. If i take someone elses song. And just move teh noes up one fret. Or a down a string or something. Would it still be there song?? Or would it be mine, just not original??
Rock
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jul 7 2007, 10:41 PM) *
I don't know if this has been discussed but I find it quite interesting. It's also a good illustration to why we can't teach famous songs here without first clearing (=buying) the copyrights.

From what I understand by clicking the links provided in the article - all famous songs lessons have been removed from youtube - it's unbelievable! blink.gif

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=11778602


I think this is absolutely ridiculous. They should take it as a compliment that there are people like us who are interested in learning their songs. Unfortunately, it is all about the money.
Robin
QUOTE (Ryan @ Jul 7 2007, 11:16 PM) *
Yea, ive always thought about that. If i take someone elses song. And just move teh noes up one fret. Or a down a string or something. Would it still be there song?? Or would it be mine, just not original??

Yeah they shouldnt be allowed to remove it then, its technically not the same song if its in a different key! smile.gif
Eat-Sleep-andJam
How are the people like Justin and David on the free guitar sites reacting you might ask ?



Here is what the angry instructors are saying to the argument of taking there videos off of youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf4iy9uIO34


edit. Im finding a ton of term oil on this subject , and this piece of poop is making me even more mad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF84jdSX9sM&NR=1
FretDancer69
hey! thats the same guy who taught me pinch harmonics!:(
Hemlok
QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Jul 8 2007, 11:50 AM) *
hey! thats the same guy who taught me pinch harmonics!:(


Yep i also learnt some pinch harmonics and some other stuff from this guy. It is a real shame what has happened.
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 8 2007, 04:03 AM) *
Yep i also learnt some pinch harmonics and some other stuff from this guy. It is a real shame what has happened.


Horror
Kaneda
QUOTE (Robin @ Jul 8 2007, 01:19 AM) *
Yeah they shouldnt be allowed to remove it then, its technically not the same song if its in a different key! smile.gif


Sadly, that argument doesn't hold sad.gif It may technically be a different song, but copyright includes the exclusive right of the copyright holder to create "derivative works" too. Which includes adapting a novel to a stage play, transposing a song to a different key - and also (addressing the other common objection) writing tabs which aren't correct - as long as they're "similar enough". Then there's the gray, philosophical zone of determining how many notes (or intervals) to change before it's not derivative anymore. smile.gif Of course transposing a song a semitone up makes all the notes different, but saying it's a different song won't hold up in court wink.gif

Under the current legislation, tabs as well as guitar lessons of copyrighted works are illegal. Whether that's how it should be - and whether it does the music industry any good to shut down tab sites and guitar lessons - is another matter.

Needless to say, I don't think it's how it should be, and I don't think it does the music industry - much less the actual artists - any good. I also think the idea of software patents is the worst thing to happen to progress in the past 30 years. Yet that's how things are. unsure.gif
ch00ch00man
QUOTE (Kaneda @ Jul 7 2007, 10:26 PM) *
Sadly, that argument doesn't hold sad.gif It may technically be a different song, but copyright includes the exclusive right of the copyright holder to create "derivative works" too. Which includes adapting a novel to a stage play, transposing a song to a different key - and also (addressing the other common objection) writing tabs which aren't correct - as long as they're "similar enough". Then there's the gray, philosophical zone of determining how many notes (or intervals) to change before it's not derivative anymore. smile.gif Of course transposing a song a semitone up makes all the notes different, but saying it's a different song won't hold up in court wink.gif

Under the current legislation, tabs as well as guitar lessons of copyrighted works are illegal. Whether that's how it should be - and whether it does the music industry any good to shut down tab sites and guitar lessons - is another matter.

Needless to say, I don't think it's how it should be, and I don't think it does the music industry - much less the actual artists - any good. I also think the idea of software patents is the worst thing to happen to progress in the past 30 years. Yet that's how things are. unsure.gif


Very well said Kaneda!!! I couldn't agree more. I find the same people that bitch and moan about this stuff, are the same people when asked whom they voted for, say they don't vote. I too find the current state of copyright law to be lacking, to say the least. But it is the law, and that that. You want change, in America you are given that opportunity every two years. Say what you want, but if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch.

Boris
kahall
I would not get too upset by this really. There are other ways, and other places to host videos.
Scott Gentzen
QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 7 2007, 10:08 PM) *
What they do is really scary and if they are allowed to keep on going at this pace soon enough they will stop tribute and cover bands.


Venues pay BMI, ASCAP, etc fees to cover this.
Scott Gentzen
QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Jul 7 2007, 11:26 PM) *
edit. Im finding a ton of term oil on this subject , and this piece of poop is making me even more mad


Actually this is kind of funny hanging his whole point on "ghost accounts". On the 29th, the NextLevelGuitar guys sent an email out about what happened, the new account and asking for people to subscribe. It seems perfectly reasonable for some people to create an account just to make a statement here. I almost did it. I use Youtube quite a bit but don't really have any reason to create an account....so if I had subscribed to the new feed, my account would look like a 'ghost'.

People are funny.
Eat-Sleep-andJam
Yeah it was pretty funny , after looking at that Trevor guys other videos tongue.gif


-John
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (kahall @ Jul 8 2007, 05:43 AM) *
I would not get too upset by this really. There are other ways, and other places to host videos.


Yes that is right - but the fact that one single of the lessons mentioned here had 3-5 million views is proof that a very important distribution channel of instruction has been eliminated.

QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 8 2007, 12:08 AM) *
About song lessons on this site, is it very expensive with copyrights or could there be sort of a platina account with access to these?


I really dont hope a platina account should be necessary. I am hoping that we can find a better way of solving this...
Guitarman700
I despise The music industry. if every record exec dropped dead right now the world would be a better place.
kahall
I did not read the entire article linked to or notice that it was on NPR when Kris first posted it here. NPR is notorious for stirring up s***when nothing has or will ever happen and they tend to slant everything to the negative side. I tried to find other stories relating to this article, there were very few and even those referred to the NPR article as its source. While it may be true that youtube is in the process of yanking all lessons that teach popular songs they have not done so yet.

Example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m79m_PXFmJs



Maybe some of the lessons they have yanked just crossed a fine line that no one will ever be able to define.

Edited for language - Andrew
blindwillie
QUOTE
Edited for language - Andrew

Yey! First ever on GMC? biggrin.gif
Andrew Cockburn
QUOTE (blindwillie @ Jul 9 2007, 03:31 AM) *
Yey! First ever on GMC? biggrin.gif


Sorry, no, I've been busy - there was a whole thread on it on Saturday ...
blindwillie
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 9 2007, 02:56 PM) *
Sorry, no, I've been busy - there was a whole thread on it on Saturday ...

Yes, I saw that later. Haven't checked GMC for a few days. That made the joke a bit flat. Sorry.
Jeff
This is sad. What next? Will it now be illegal to produce or purchase an electronic device that is specifically designed to slow down songs so that they can be transcribed?
Andrew Cockburn
QUOTE (jeff @ Jul 9 2007, 03:50 PM) *
This is sad. What next? Will it now be illegal to produce or purchase an electronic device that is specifically designed to slow down songs so that they can be transcribed?


Yeah, didn't think of that ... I'll bet that if they wanted to the record companies could have a go at applying the Digital Milenium act there - after all, its reverse engineering a song mad.gif
kahall
I just checked youtube. Jihad T.V. is still ok as long as you don't sneak in a guitar lesson.
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (jeff @ Jul 9 2007, 09:50 PM) *
This is sad. What next? Will it now be illegal to produce or purchase an electronic device that is specifically designed to slow down songs so that they can be transcribed?


No I don't think so - basically you can do whatever you want as long as it's doesn't appeal to the masses.

If what you are doing does appeal to the masses - then you it could get taken away even it's perfectly legal. That's almost the impression I get from recent happenings.
Jeff
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jul 10 2007, 08:36 AM) *
No I don't think so - basically you can do whatever you want as long as it's doesn't appeal to the masses.

If what you are doing does appeal to the masses - then you it could get taken away even it's perfectly legal. That's almost the impression I get from recent happenings.


OK Kris, so here is your solution and idea for GMC:

Convince record companies to include some kind of ID/Password that would be included with CD sales. That way, if I purchase a CD I have the right to transcriptions to those songs. Those transcriptions would be available here at GMC through the awesome instructors that you have and I would provide the ID/Password to get them.

I would gladly pay an extra buck for that and the giant music industry maching could be happy making more money so they could ski behind more yahts. What do you think?
Pavel
QUOTE (jeff @ Jul 10 2007, 06:42 PM) *
Convince record companies


That part sounds really simple!!! rolleyes.gif
Owen
Pavel's right, what benefit is it to them if little GMC has In The Style of Lessons or not?
jammer91
Whoa, youtube is closing all guitar lessons.....

That would include Kris' lessons on youtube?

YouTube is gone wild!


Kris, somehow i suggest you keep the lessons going on youtube cause thats what caused me to join GMC (other that UG).... After all it would be cool if we had as many members as possible.
Owen
No, they're just taking down lessons which teach sections or passages out of copyrighted songs. Anything else will not be targeted. tongue.gif
Jeff
QUOTE (Pavel @ Jul 10 2007, 11:57 AM) *
That part sounds really simple!!! rolleyes.gif


So true!! laugh.gif
icedern
QUOTE (kahall @ Jul 9 2007, 09:18 PM) *
I just checked youtube. Jihad T.V. is still ok as long as you don't sneak in a guitar lesson.



Seriously, WTF
Eat-Sleep-andJam
*gets out the picket signs*
brandon
Irronically, I'm sure most of the bands don't really care.....it's the record labels that want to attack him.
kahall
QUOTE (icedern @ Jul 10 2007, 01:17 PM) *
Seriously, WTF




I just wanted to throw it out there. I have very strong opinions regarding youtube and how they let some people/groups post whatever they want and censor or ban others. But my opinions involve politics, terrorism and to some extent religion and there are plenty of other forums and blogs that discuss these topics all day long. Still I feel my post and link is related to the discussion of youtube and how they handle things even though I hesitated posting it, and that is all I am comfortable saying here. If you really want to get info on how youtube does not fight the good fight you can start here.
blindwillie
QUOTE (kahall @ Jul 11 2007, 04:49 AM) *
I just wanted to throw it out there. I have very strong opinions regarding youtube and how they let some people/groups post whatever they want and censor or ban others. But my opinions involve politics, terrorism and to some extent religion and there are plenty of other forums and blogs that discuss these topics all day long. Still I feel my post and link is related to the discussion of youtube and how they handle things even though I hesitated posting it, and that is all I am comfortable saying here. If you really want to get info on how youtube does not fight the good fight you can start here.

I won't start that discussion here either but that one surprised me too.
Sircraigery
This is why the music scene is turning into s***..... If you can't be inspired (and by that I mean learn your favorite song), how are you going to improve on guitar?

When I started learning there was no Interent Videos. Those damn magazine sucked ass to buy every month for 4 song you didn't really want to learn.... Sure the tabs are all over now, but those are being taken away too....


If we can't learn our favorite songs and grow as musician's, then who's going to make the records that they want to copyright in the future?

I mean besides, they aren't making money off the songs. They are making money on the fact that they can teach. And that's why it's important to have those videos. It's just a sample of "if I can teach you this, you'll play guitar just fine".

Edited for languade - Andrew
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