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Full Version: 7 royalty cheques that’ll make you lose your faith in the music industry
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klasaine
Nothing new ... in either the new model or the old model.

Here in LA LA land there's a bar called 'Residuals' if you bring in a residual or re-use check under a dollar you get a free drink. The bar's been here since the 70s. I've gotten more than one free drink at that bar.
Palacios
I don't ever plan on quitting my day job. I could never match my current job playing classical guitar. I'm guessing performing live is the only real way to make money as a musician.
klasaine
Write songs.
Keep your publishing.
And yes, play live ... actually, play live in somebody else's band and make sure they pay you wink.gif
PosterBoy
In the documentary Heartworn Highways, I recall the legendary Townes Van Zant receiving a royalty check from I think his Swedish record sales and it was something like 39c. His response was 'Well I guess I won't be touring there anytime soon'!
Saoirse O'Shea
Again nothing new to me. I can't remember the exact figures but DaftPunk had a massive multimillion selling international hit last year. It generated 10s of millions of plays on spotify and their performance royalties was a pitance and they weren't even paying back an advance to a label.
Palacios
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Feb 19 2014, 03:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again nothing new to me. I can't remember the exact figures but DaftPunk had a massive multimillion selling international hit last year. It generated 10s of millions of plays on spotify and their performance royalties was a pitance and they weren't even paying back an advance to a label.

That's horrible. I love Daft Punk. They have such a unique sound. They deserve to get paid right.
Todd Simpson
The music industry is an ever changing beast as we all know smile.gif The digital pennies from streaming aren't going to make up for the analogue dollars from the "old days" of selling physical units (value added plastic). So musicians seeking income have to learn to adapt as we've talked about before.

These days you have to combine multiple income streams to make it work. Live shows, and Merchandise remain power generators of income for those in the top tier of good sized fan bases where the music itself is a loss leader to get people to come to shows and buy merch.

In the middle level and below it gets a bit tougher. Newer artists without a big fan base usually lose money touring. They may break even on merch. They usually lose money on physical media/cds etc. Labels used to pay for this for 5 years or so as "artist development". Those days are gone and artists have to develop themselves until they become a viable brand/biz and a label can justify the investment.

So what's a struggling musician to do? Decide if you want to make music to make music or make/play for a living. Doing it for a living is indeed a noble calling. Many are called but few are chosen as it were. IF you are heading the call, you'll need to string together as many income opportunities as possible. Music streaming, licensing, live shows, private shows, killer merch that people want to wear whether they like your band or not etc.

For those making music for the shear love of it, you really don't have to worry about all of this which is an enormous burden you don't have to carry.

It's up to you to make the call smile.gif
Todd
Palacios
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 19 2014, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The music industry is an ever changing beast as we all know smile.gif The digital pennies from streaming aren't going to make up for the analogue dollars from the "old days" of selling physical units (value added plastic). So musicians seeking income have to learn to adapt as we've talked about before.

These days you have to combine multiple income streams to make it work. Live shows, and Merchandise remain power generators of income for those in the top tier of good sized fan bases where the music itself is a loss leader to get people to come to shows and buy merch.

In the middle level and below it gets a bit tougher. Newer artists without a big fan base usually lose money touring. They may break even on merch. They usually lose money on physical media/cds etc. Labels used to pay for this for 5 years or so as "artist development". Those days are gone and artists have to develop themselves until they become a viable brand/biz and a label can justify the investment.

So what's a struggling musician to do? Decide if you want to make music to make music or make/play for a living. Doing it for a living is indeed a noble calling. Many are called but few are chosen as it were. IF you are heading the call, you'll need to string together as many income opportunities as possible. Music streaming, licensing, live shows, private shows, killer merch that people want to wear whether they like your band or not etc.

For those making music for the shear love of it, you really don't have to worry about all of this which is an enormous burden you don't have to carry.

It's up to you to make the call smile.gif
Todd

Unfortunantly classical guitarists usually end up in the bargain cd section. smile.gif
Cosmin Lupu
Todd stated the exact way in which things are functioning. It is very difficult to live exclusively off music so I think that an artist nowadays should understand that he needs to understand, learn and act in some other fields as well, in order to be able to raise his chances of success.

In Romania, 95% of the artists are VERY sad and deranged about the fact that they are not earning money, but then again, all they want to do is sit and wait for God to reach his almighty hand down on earth and give them an everlasting tour in which they play in front of huge crowds and earn lots of money laugh.gif We all know that's no possible smile.gif If there be the case, get a part time job and build your dream... or do ANYTHING and build your dream.
Darius Wave
For many ears I was lucky to be a part of something bigger where someone else took care of management, someone else was "the face that's selling". Unfortunately those projects where having bad and good times and...finally they passed away. Now I'm at the point where I need to start doing things on my own. So Ken is right IMHO. It's most comfortable for a instrumentalist to be a part of something bigger where You get paid.
Cosmin Lupu
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 20 2014, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For many ears I was lucky to be a part of something bigger where someone else took care of management, someone else was "the face that's selling". Unfortunately those projects where having bad and good times and...finally they passed away. Now I'm at the point where I need to start doing things on my own. So Ken is right IMHO. It's most comfortable for a instrumentalist to be a part of something bigger where You get paid.


It has it's upsides - you get payed and you don't have to worry about anything else aside your part, but the downsides exist as well - you have to do what you are told, you have to play some stuff you don't like, more often than not and you cannot change some things which are clearly for the best in the band's long term activity. Some people are just not meant to lead, but they stubbornly stick to it - I had my fair share of dealing with that.

I like the idea in which you are responsible smile.gif The next move can take you sky high or ground you or ...just take you to the next move smile.gif I salute your initiative and I think that doing things on your own is the best and most honest way for the soul smile.gif
klasaine
For those that are interested in the darker side of art and finance ... as well as seeing your heroes as mortals.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7972484...e-me-your-money

Click to view attachment

It's a great read but it's not pretty.
Darius Wave
We have to stop doing threads like this before we all loose our motivation tongue.gif
klasaine
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 21 2014, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have to stop doing threads like this before we all loose our motivation tongue.gif


Knowledge is power.
Or ... know thine enemy.
PosterBoy
Look at how many famous musicians are doing the Monthly subscription online lesson website thing as additional income.
Todd Simpson
I hear ya smile.gif Hopefully threads like this serve to give folks insight in to what's no longer working and what might work in the future. But yeah, it can be a bit of a downer smile.gif

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 21 2014, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have to stop doing threads like this before we all loose our motivation tongue.gif
Cosmin Lupu
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 21 2014, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hear ya smile.gif Hopefully threads like this serve to give folks insight in to what's no longer working and what might work in the future. But yeah, it can be a bit of a downer smile.gif


For me personally, it would be more of a downer to be left in the darkness in respect to knowing what works and what doesn't work, as Todd stated. The one who knows AND acts, is the one who's powerful indeed smile.gif Let's keep ourselves informed, as ugly as the truth might be smile.gif
Darius Wave
Last 10 years passed like a one week for me and the world has changed a lot during those. We have to handle the new order of things and get used to it. The only common thing trhough all those changes of music market is the question You always ask to Yourself, no matter how hard it becomes to be musician..."Why am I doing this". If the answer is "because I love music" then You'll survive smile.gif
Storm Linnebjerg
Hah, that's both sad and funny at the same time, but still not surprising the way the music business has been going.
klasaine
As both I and Tony Miro mentioned, this is nothing new at all.
The techniques for denying a musician their money has 'evolved' lets say but the story is ages old. We've always had to chase our remuneration and it's always been a game of hide and seek. I see it as part of the job description. That's why I posted a link to that book - financial music history from 40+ years ago.

You want more, here:
http://www.amazon.com/Are-We-Still-Rolling...g/dp/0977990311
http://www.amazon.com/Hit-Men-Brokers-Insi...eywords=hit+men
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Record-P...record+producer
http://www.amazon.com/Million-Dollar-Mista...ds=moses+avalon
Cosmin Lupu
QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 22 2014, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As both I and Tony Miro mentioned, this is nothing new at all.
The techniques for denying a musician their money has 'evolved' lets say but the story is ages old. We've always had to chase our remuneration and it's always been a game of hide and seek. I see it as part of the job description. That's why I posted a link to that book - financial music history from 40+ years ago.

You want more, here:
http://www.amazon.com/Are-We-Still-Rolling...g/dp/0977990311
http://www.amazon.com/Hit-Men-Brokers-Insi...eywords=hit+men
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Record-P...record+producer
http://www.amazon.com/Million-Dollar-Mista...ds=moses+avalon


I have a pretty extensive list of martial arts books I have to buy, so these will have to wait a little, but thanks for the recommendations Ken. Looks like experience is speaking out loud here smile.gif What's the nastiest experience you have lived in respect to remuneration issues and the sort?
klasaine
My point in listing all those books (and there's plenty more) is to illustrate that it's always been rough for artists to re-coup.

On a positive note I'll add that there's plenty of avenues where one can collect monies that isn't always advertised or discussed because it's 'not exciting'. If you write music make sure you copyright your music, register with a licensing agency (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, GESAC, ICMP) and maybe even set up your own publishing company. If you want to sell and/or license to TV or film you can not only collect an initial fee but then accrue residual or re-use money (mailbox money). It's not a hard thing to do. The more you write, the more you submit, the better your chances for 'placing' something. You just need to have your paperwork together.

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 23 2014, 07:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's the nastiest experience you have lived in respect to remuneration issues and the sort?


When I first started doing real recording sessions I actually worked (briefly) 'on staff' at a small record company (Total Experience Records). After not getting paid for a particular session - I complained a little. An exec at the Rec Co. asked me into his office, pulled a .45 out of his top desk drawer, laid it on the desk and asked me if I still had a problem with the payment schedule?
I know he wasn't gonna shoot me but I was probably 21 and easily intimidated. Needless to say that was also my last session for TE records, lol!

It's also pretty normal for the entire band to 'convince' a club owner or manager that he needs to pay you after you've played. *Lots of great stories about bands unplugging and packing up the club's mixing board and power amps in lieu of payment.

There have been many times where I just haven't been paid for services rendered or paid less than the agreed upon rate or paid 3 to 6 months after the gig, etc. All businesses have to deal with client non-payment occasionally. The music biz in no different. I haven't had hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalty payments denied to me for stupid reasons or band contracts so I consider myself fortunate. I also don't get bent out of shape when I have to chase down payment - it's not a big deal to me (I consider it normal).
I read those books I mentioned so that I don't make the same mistakes and more importantly for my circumstances - stay away from artists that are making those mistakes.
Cosmin Lupu
QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 23 2014, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point in listing all those books (and there's plenty more) is to illustrate that it's always been rough for artists to re-coup.

On a positive note I'll add that there's plenty of avenues where one can collect monies that isn't always advertised or discussed because it's 'not exciting'. If you write music make sure you copyright your music, register with a licensing agency (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, GESAC, ICMP) and maybe even set up your own publishing company. If you want to sell and/or license to TV or film you can not only collect an initial fee but then accrue residual or re-use money (mailbox money). It's not a hard thing to do. The more you write, the more you submit, the better your chances for 'placing' something. You just need to have your paperwork together.



When I first started doing real recording sessions I actually worked (briefly) 'on staff' at a small record company (Total Experience Records). After not getting paid for a particular session - I complained a little. An exec at the Rec Co. asked me into his office, pulled a .45 out of his top desk drawer, laid it on the desk and asked me if I still had a problem with the payment schedule?
I know he wasn't gonna shoot me but I was probably 21 and easily intimidated. Needless to say that was also my last session for TE records, lol!

It's also pretty normal for the entire band to 'convince' a club owner or manager that he needs to pay you after you've played. *Lots of great stories about bands unplugging and packing up the club's mixing board and power amps in lieu of payment.

There have been many times where I just haven't been paid for services rendered or paid less than the agreed upon rate or paid 3 to 6 months after the gig, etc. All businesses have to deal with client non-payment occasionally. The music biz in no different. I haven't had hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalty payments denied to me for stupid reasons or band contracts so I consider myself fortunate. I also don't get bent out of shape when I have to chase down payment - it's not a big deal to me (I consider it normal).
I read those books I mentioned so that I don't make the same mistakes and more importantly for my circumstances - stay away from artists that are making those mistakes.


Pfff, I hope I will never be at gun point in any situation. Man, that's a bit weird. I also have friends that happen to wait a lot of time until the companies which hired the band for a certain event, will be sending the money. In the contracts, it is always stated 'the payment will be sent in an interval of up to 30/45/60 or even 90 days from the invoicing date'. Frankly, that sux big time for the artist, because, hey I need that money NOW not in 3 months. But no company will ever care, unfortunately and this is also happening in other fields as well.
klasaine
The entertainment business has always been run by criminals.
Technically, I wasn't at 'gunpoint' ... he just laid it on the desk so I could see it. Many freelancers carry a weapon. I don't but more than a few times I've glimpsed pistols inside a trumpet or sax case.
Palacios
QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 24 2014, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The entertainment business has always been run by criminals.
Technically, I wasn't at 'gunpoint' ... he just laid it on the desk so I could see it. Many freelancers carry a weapon. I don't but more than a few times I've glimpsed pistols inside a trumpet or sax case.

I used to do electrical contracting, and it's defiantly a huge problem there to. It's not uncommon to be owed thousands of dollars, and not get paid for 90 days or more. Many times the people won't have the money, but still need the work done; so they screw with you for long periods of time. After a while you develop a 6th sense on who pays, and who doesn't. Unfortunately California only allows for a $1000 deposit; even if the project is $100,000. Musicians don't really ask for a lot of money, and should be paid immediately. There is really just some unscrupulous people in the world. That's why I love working for somebody. I get paid every week, I don't need to look for customers, I don't need to bid on stuff, I don't need to be a slave to people demanding stuff 24/7. The best part is I can get laid off, and focus on my passion of traveling and playing guitar.
Cosmin Lupu
QUOTE (Palacios @ Feb 24 2014, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I used to do electrical contracting, and it's defiantly a huge problem there to. It's not uncommon to be owed thousands of dollars, and not get paid for 90 days or more. Many times the people won't have the money, but still need the work done; so they screw with you for long periods of time. After a while you develop a 6th sense on who pays, and who doesn't. Unfortunately California only allows for a $1000 deposit; even if the project is $100,000. Musicians don't really ask for a lot of money, and should be paid immediately. There is really just some unscrupulous people in the world. That's why I love working for somebody. I get paid every week, I don't need to look for customers, I don't need to bid on stuff, I don't need to be a slave to people demanding stuff 24/7. The best part is I can get laid off, and focus on my passion of traveling and playing guitar.


I am more of a free spirit and I can't work for someone who is paying me but in the same time, I can't look up to that person and say 'Hey, I learned a whole deal from this guy and I have evolved!' In my country, there's a lot of people with a good nose for moneymaking but not ok from any other perspective. I also like being a hunter smile.gif
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