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Phil66
Hello folks,

I've been having a few issues with Reaper so I thought I'd try Studio One. I can't use the forum as I've downloaded the free version and you can only post a thread if you have a registered product. I can't see how to register the free one as it doesn't give you a key.

Anyway, when setting up the I/O I can't select a different input and output device. I record direct from Helix USB and playback through my Scarlett.

Any advice?

Cheers

Phil
Todd Simpson
I think I found your answer phil! Congrats on trying a new DAW! It's always a good thing to try new software IMHO. There is so much that is worth learning. Sadly, I found this...

Currently, the option to select independent Recording and Playback devices in Studio One 3.5.x is only supported on MAC OS X.

I'm guessing the same snag is what has gotten you? You probably have a newer version of product. From the sound of it, the option of using separate in/out is a mac thing for studio one. It worked Great for me when I tried it when I had a presonus 16 channel mixer as my main audio device. It would let me use the 11 rack for input and the presonus for output. But I'm on a Mac.

What was happening with reaper? Maybe we can help you work it out?
Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 24 2018, 04:19 PM) *
Hello folks,

I've been having a few issues with Reaper so I thought I'd try Studio One. I can't use the forum as I've downloaded the free version and you can only post a thread if you have a registered product. I can't see how to register the free one as it doesn't give you a key.

Anyway, when setting up the I/O I can't select a different input and output device. I record direct from Helix USB and playback through my Scarlett.

Any advice?

Cheers

Phil
Phil66
Well you heard that warbling effect on a couple of my takes and it is a bit sluggish at time, especially when I render a track, after I render, it is unusable for a few seconds, then it sticks in the render window, then it says "not responding" and then it kicks back in, it's just minor niggles like that that get on my tits.

Cheers

Phil
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 24 2018, 09:06 PM) *
Well you heard that warbling effect on a couple of my takes and it is a bit sluggish at time, especially when I render a track, after I render, it is unusable for a few seconds, then it sticks in the render window, then it says "not responding" and then it kicks back in, it's just minor niggles like that that get on my tits.

Cheers

Phil


And no luck on reaper forum as an answer? I'd imagine there would be a few who has a helix.

Would connecting the Helix to soundcard (no usb connection) solve the problem and still cover all your needs? there are many daw's out there some even free but dealing with a new DAW can really take time.
Phil66
The Helix is already connected to my soundcard for when I just want to play and it is how I monitor with zero latency. The thing is, it's so easy to record wet and dry and reamp using the Helix USB.
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2018, 10:03 AM) *
The Helix is already connected to my soundcard for when I just want to play and it is how I monitor with zero latency. The thing is, it's so easy to record wet and dry and reamp using the Helix USB.


Can't argue with that. Did you try powering the helix off before rendering?
Phil66
QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 25 2018, 11:15 AM) *
Can't argue with that. Did you try powering the helix off before rendering?


Thanks Mertay

No I didn't, what is the thinking behind that?

Cheers
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2018, 02:35 PM) *
Thanks Mertay

No I didn't, what is the thinking behind that?

Cheers


Its always seemed like the 2 devices somehow mixed things up for your computer in a way we couldn't figure out yet. I thought maybe after the recording is done and only render left (Helix's job being done), it wouldn't hurt to try disconnecting it from the system to see if it solves the rendering issue.
Phil66
Thanks, by "the rendering issue" do you mean the not responding thing?

Cheers
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2018, 05:22 PM) *
Thanks, by "the rendering issue" do you mean the not responding thing?

Cheers


yeah
Phil66
No buddy, it was exactly the same.

Here is a video, when you hear the clicking it's me with the mouse clicking frustatingly on the cancel button just out of view on the video. It does get going again as soon as that dialogue box disappears.

https://youtu.be/TraDoFk462s
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2018, 08:26 PM) *
No buddy, it was exactly the same.

Here is a video, when you hear the clicking it's me with the mouse clicking frustatingly


laugh.gif

I noticed it was rendering to mp3, does it happen when rendering to wav. too?

Edit; I also noticed silently increment filenames to avoid overwriting is checked, try disabling that too.
Phil66
QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
laugh.gif

I noticed it was rendering to mp3, does it happen when rendering to wav. too?

Edit; I also noticed silently increment filenames to avoid overwriting is checked, try disabling that too.



Will do tomorrow buddy thanks.

By the way, I have some software that records video of the screen but when I played it back the render box didn't show for some reason.
Todd Simpson
Egad!! Are you using the latest version of reaper? They are always updating to fix these kinds of issues.
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 24 2018, 05:06 PM) *
Well you heard that warbling effect on a couple of my takes and it is a bit sluggish at time, especially when I render a track, after I render, it is unusable for a few seconds, then it sticks in the render window, then it says "not responding" and then it kicks back in, it's just minor niggles like that that get on my tits.

Cheers

Phil
Phil66
I'm pretty sure I am Todd, unless it's stopped telling you there is an update. I'll check tomorrow.

Cheers buddy
Todd Simpson
If you update each time you get the pop up, you should be in good shape. However, sometimes it's good to do a full uninstall, reboot, fresh install if an app is acting strange. I don't know how many licensed plugins you are using, as sometimes they need a relicensing.

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2018, 06:15 PM) *
I'm pretty sure I am Todd, unless it's stopped telling you there is an update. I'll check tomorrow.

Cheers buddy
Phil66
QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
laugh.gif

I noticed it was rendering to mp3, does it happen when rendering to wav. too?

Edit; I also noticed silently increment filenames to avoid overwriting is checked, try disabling that too.



Made no difference buddy.


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 26 2018, 01:46 AM) *
If you update each time you get the pop up, you should be in good shape. However, sometimes it's good to do a full uninstall, reboot, fresh install if an app is acting strange. I don't know how many licensed plugins you are using, as sometimes they need a relicensing.

Todd



Full uninstall and install of latest version ( I didn't have the latest on there), exactly the same. I don't use any plugins.
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 26 2018, 07:57 PM) *
Made no difference buddy.


Bummer, for now I can't think of another reason, aside maybe a background program (could be anything) is causing the render problem and reaper may not be the problem.

Since you already have presonus installed give the rendering test a shot anyway, might gives us a clue.
Todd Simpson
hmm. What happens if you use the SCARLLET for in and out? Just for a test, use a set of headphone and set the scarllet for both. Reaper may be getting twirked by having separate audio ins/outs, even though it's capable of it, if the response of one device is a bit off compared to the other, reaper can get jiggy.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 26 2018, 03:57 PM) *
Made no difference buddy.





Full uninstall and install of latest version ( I didn't have the latest on there), exactly the same. I don't use any plugins.
Phil66
Still the same mate, in fact, just clicking on "Options" and it goes into "Not responding" mode mad.gif
Caelumamittendum
I'm not trying to sound like a smartass here, but I can't help but think it's something outside of Reaper. Have you tried your projects on a different computer? Different sound/audiocard? Different setup? Starting in safe-mode if you can still run Reaper in that (I honestly don't know)?

Of course if you find another DAW that works for you, then it's wonderful! I have run 50+ tracks (My "Celestial Voyage" song/album, which I was an idiot about and lost the project files for!) on Reaper, doing renders of each stem simultaneously or all to one final track. Never had a moment's trouble. It just makes me think it's either a setting somewhere (to either be turned of or on to match your PC) or another software interfering.

Also, have you tried formatting your computer, installing everything again, of course keeping documents, files and all you need? Big task/ask, but just trying to think of solutions here.
Todd Simpson
Egad. last thing I can think of. Unplug ANY usb related audio devices from your computer. All of them. Reboot. Plugin your head phones in to your computer, ear buds are fine. Launch reaper. Try to just play back, and hit options, etc. and export, and see if it freezes.

If you can do all these bits, with your internal sound card only, then it's not actually reaper as such causing the issue. However, if you have the same problems, using just your internal audio card, something is seriously amiss. I've never heard of reaper behaving this badly til now sad.gif
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 27 2018, 05:08 PM) *
Still the same mate, in fact, just clicking on "Options" and it goes into "Not responding" mode mad.gif
Phil66
That's my lot mate rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 28 2018, 01:55 AM) *
I've never heard of reaper behaving this badly til now sad.gif

Todd Simpson
Did you try unplugging everything and using the internal sound card?


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 28 2018, 03:24 AM) *
That's my lot mate rolleyes.gif


Did you try unplugging everything and using the internal sound card?


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 28 2018, 03:24 AM) *
That's my lot mate rolleyes.gif
Caelumamittendum
Also, don't know if you missed my post with suggestions smile.gif
Phil66
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 28 2018, 11:04 PM) *
Also, don't know if you missed my post with suggestions smile.gif

I did miss that buddy sorry. I'll review tomorrow. Thanks

I'll do that tomorrow buddy

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 28 2018, 07:43 PM) *
Did you try unplugging everything and using the internal sound card?




Did you try unplugging everything and using the internal sound card?

Phil66
Okay, thanks. Problem is isolated. It's the Scarlett. Luckily I don't record from it now. I do need it to hear computer sound through my monitors though and to use Scarlett Mix Control. It's starting up 10 times quicker too and no hanging after rendering.

I need to get over to the Cockos people though. It does the same on both of my Won10 computers. Hopefully I can get it sorted. It's not a major ball ache pulling the USB out for rendering but I'd like it not to be like it.

Cheers
Todd Simpson
I figured it was something like that smile.gif Glad to hear the issue is clear now. It could be a driver issue. Uninstall reboot and reinstall the scarllet drivers if you havent yet, and update windows reboot. If you have done all this, skip it.

For the scarllet is it plugged in directly to a usb 2.0 port? or on a hub? Any audio devices do best plugged directly in to usb 2.0 ports in general. A few need 3.0 ports, but not that unit. 2.0 is more than enough bandwidth. Hopefully you have more than two ports. Also, if you plug both in direct to the computer, pull out any other usb devices and see if that sorts it. if some other usb device is slow to respond, it can twirk the entire rig.
Todd
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 29 2018, 04:17 PM) *
Okay, thanks. Problem is isolated. It's the Scarlett. Luckily I don't record from it now. I do need it to hear computer sound through my monitors though and to use Scarlett Mix Control. It's starting up 10 times quicker too and no hanging after rendering.

I need to get over to the Cockos people though. It does the same on both of my Won10 computers. Hopefully I can get it sorted. It's not a major ball ache pulling the USB out for rendering but I'd like it not to be like it.

Cheers
Phil66
Cheers Todd, yeah it's in a powered hub, the reason being I use it across two computers wink.gif

I'll try tonight.

Thanks

Phil
Phil66
Tonight I uninstalled mix control and keeping the usb in the hub I still had the same problem so that rules out mix control
Todd Simpson
Its looking more and more like it's that hub. Yank that hub out of the way just for a test and plug the scarlett direclty in to a usb 2.0 port to give it all the bandwidth it might need. Try to only use direct connections for the test. E.g just the scarllet going right in. If you are on the laptop, use the laptop keyboard/mouse. Leave everything else unplugged.
Set the scarlett as input and output in reaper. Record/Playback/Export.

Let us know smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 30 2018, 05:50 PM) *
Tonight I uninstalled mix control and keeping the usb in the hub I still had the same problem so that rules out mix control

Phil66
Ok, I discovered something that I had forgotten.

First though, I don't need the Scarlett connected to USB really I just can't use the Scarlett Mix control without it. My Helix is my soundcard. The only issue I have is that when I swap from one computer to another, when I go back to the laptop it only uses its own built in speakers, I have to reboot in order to get the laptop to switch to the monitors even though "Helix" is showing as set to input and output.

The thing I had forgotten, which might be the issue is that the Hub is plugged into THIS so that I can share Helix, mouse, keyboard and Scarlett across two computers. I was originally only going to use my laptop for music because my desktop gets a lot of interference, I haven't really tested it with the Helix though. I do tend to use my laptop for 90% of things now though.

The powered hub is USB 3 but the switcher is USB 2.0, could this be the issue with the hanging?

Cheers
Todd Simpson
The only way to test anything is to remove everything and try to record/playback/export then add one thing back in to the mix. If you add more than one thing at a time, you can't ever tell which one is the culprit. I get that the helix is your sound card, but for the purpose of just testing, you still gotta yank it out. You can really only test one machine at at time. Same procedure on both. Start with no usb devices if possible. (laptop makes it easier as it's got built in keyboard/mouse, the desktop will need a keyboard mouse but plug them direct don't use a hub as it's yet another variable). Try the record/play/export test starting with nothing (laptop) and only keyboard mouse (desktop) then add the scarlett only to the laptop and rec/ply/exp, then go to the desktop and plug the scarlett direct, rec/ply/export.

At that point, you can see what is actually happening with and without the scarlett. Then add one more device, again direct connect, no hub. same drill, rinse repeat. The only way to find out is to add one usb item at a time, direct connect, until you run out of ports and have to add the powered hub (not the switch yet) . At which point just add the hub and hub only and do the same rec/ply/exp on both. Then add one device to the hub rinse repeat. Eventually you will get up to adding that switch thing which could easily be the problem

It's a slow ardous process. But it's the only way to isolate the problem.
Todd
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 1 2018, 04:50 PM) *
Ok, I discovered something that I had forgotten.

First though, I don't need the Scarlett connected to USB really I just can't use the Scarlett Mix control without it. My Helix is my soundcard. The only issue I have is that when I swap from one computer to another, when I go back to the laptop it only uses its own built in speakers, I have to reboot in order to get the laptop to switch to the monitors even though "Helix" is showing as set to input and output.

The thing I had forgotten, which might be the issue is that the Hub is plugged into THIS so that I can share Helix, mouse, keyboard and Scarlett across two computers. I was originally only going to use my laptop for music because my desktop gets a lot of interference, I haven't really tested it with the Helix though. I do tend to use my laptop for 90% of things now though.

The powered hub is USB 3 but the switcher is USB 2.0, could this be the issue with the hanging?

Cheers
Phil66
Very strange,

Tonight I completely removed everything USB, plugged the Scarlett direct to the laptop and got the same issue of hanging. Disconnected the Scarlett and all was good. Plugged just the hub back in along with Scarlett in the hub and in the laptop with the hub connected, still hung. Hub connected and Scarlett disconnected, perfect.

Until Cockos come up with something I think the best option is just to pull the Scarlett cable before rendering.

Unless anyone has any other ideas??

I still keep on thinking about getting a MacBook Pro.

Cheers

Phil
Mertay
I might have missed if answered, does it happen with a different daw (the presonus you loaded?)?
Phil66
Not tried one mate. Presonus isn't good for me. I'll look for another and try it.
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2018, 11:05 PM) *
Not tried one mate. Presonus isn't good for me. I'll look for another and try it.


I was used to Cubase before Reaper, and at first I thought Reaper wasn't very intuitive, but having used Reaper for years now, I actually can't find anything as easy and intuitive! It's difficult smile.gif
Todd Simpson
You can get a used macbook from from 2013 and add an ssd drive and 16 gb of ram and have a very fine platform for music for far less than buying a new one. That's was what I did. I've never had those types of issues on my mac but then i've never used a scarlett. I've never heard of these issues with a scarlett til now. I hope your unit is not defective somehow.


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2018, 04:02 PM) *
Very strange,

Tonight I completely removed everything USB, plugged the Scarlett direct to the laptop and got the same issue of hanging. Disconnected the Scarlett and all was good. Plugged just the hub back in along with Scarlett in the hub and in the laptop with the hub connected, still hung. Hub connected and Scarlett disconnected, perfect.

Until Cockos come up with something I think the best option is just to pull the Scarlett cable before rendering.

Unless anyone has any other ideas??

I still keep on thinking about getting a MacBook Pro.

Cheers

Phil
Caelumamittendum
I have used both a Presonus and now a Scarlett with Reaper. Never had a problem.
Phil66
I posted on the Reaper forum about it. No replies really except one other user having the same issue.
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2018, 10:05 PM) *
Not tried one mate. Presonus isn't good for me. I'll look for another and try it.


Ok, cause if it happens with a different daw then we'll be sure reaper is not the problem.
Phil66
I'll get some free trials wink.gif
Todd Simpson
Given that it performs fine from what I gather when you are using your internal sound card, it seems there is some sort of issue between your computer and the scarlett. You may have just gotten a bad unit. If it's not to late, I'd see if you can just get a replacement. If you bought from a reputable vendor, they should take it back and just send a new one smile.gif

Also, If I remember correctly, you are just using the scarlett as a volume knob correct? Since you have a full audio interface in your HELIX the Scarlett is mostly just there to have a big knob to turn for volume control right?

For about $30 you can get a USB volume knob that will do the same thing and let you get rid of the piece of gear that seems to be causing issues with your rig.

https://amzn.to/2Syxq8J
Click to view attachment
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 4 2018, 08:50 AM) *
I'll get some free trials wink.gif
Mertay
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 5 2018, 06:47 PM) *


Those type of devices scare me, any clip/pop from program or powerloss and it won't protect the speakers. The focusrite likely has a passive volume controller, so malfunction will be less damaging for the speakers.
Phil66
The Scarlett is too old to get a replacement.

I use it for direct monitoring from Helix, I record from Helix USB and have Helix xlr going into the front of the Scarlett so that my guitar comes out of the speakers with 100% zero latency.

Same happens on both computers, my Asus Laptop and my self build desktop.

Not much of a response on the Reaper forum so I think it must be rare.

Todd Simpson
This type of device doesn't actually pass any audio through it. So you've got nothing to worrry about in terms of that. It's just a volume knob that acts a software control of whatever sound device is active. So it's not possible for it to pass audio at all, so no clicks or pops wink.gif

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 5 2018, 03:48 PM) *
Those type of devices scare me, any clip/pop from program or powerloss and it won't protect the speakers. The focusrite likely has a passive volume controller, so malfunction will be less damaging for the speakers.


If you take the scarlet out of the chain, and just run xlr from the helix to your speakers, you still get zero latency as there would be nothing in between the helix and the speakers. Right now there is a scarlett between the helix and the speakers right? So your just removing a device. So it wouldn't increase latency. Which is good news smile.gif

The software usb volume control just does software control of your master volume. That's it. Just controls the main volume. So if I understand correctly how your rig it setup, it would just remove the part of your rig that is causing issues (the scarlett) and still give you a big knob for volume control and keep the zero latency. The device does not pass audio. Just acts a volume knob.

If you just use the helix, connected directly to a laptop for example, do you still get the same problems with export/clicks/etc. ?


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 5 2018, 04:34 PM) *
The Scarlett is too old to get a replacement.

I use it for direct monitoring from Helix, I record from Helix USB and have Helix xlr going into the front of the Scarlett so that my guitar comes out of the speakers with 100% zero latency.

Same happens on both computers, my Asus Laptop and my self build desktop.

Not much of a response on the Reaper forum so I think it must be rare.
Mertay
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 6 2018, 03:35 AM) *
This type of device doesn't actually pass any audio through it. So you've got nothing to worrry about in terms of that. It's just a volume knob that acts a software control of whatever sound device is active. So it's not possible for it to pass audio at all, so no clicks or pops wink.gif


Didn't read much info so I assumed it controls the main volume out of the system, if it integrates the helix fine but if not then its risky.
Phil66
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 6 2018, 04:35 AM) *
If you take the scarlet out of the chain, and just run xlr from the helix to your speakers, you still get zero latency as there would be nothing in between the helix and the speakers. Right now there is a scarlett between the helix and the speakers right? So your just removing a device. So it wouldn't increase latency. Which is good news smile.gif

If you just use the helix, connected directly to a laptop for example, do you still get the same problems with export/clicks/etc. ?


Thanks Todd.

The thing is the Scarlet is right at hand so muting the speakers and adjusting volume for speakers and headphones is extremely simple whereas the Helix is on the floor underneath my desk, short term not a problem but day in day out it would be a ball ache.

I only get the problems when the Scarlett is connected. I may just try a 2nd Gen Scarlett I can always send it back if it gives issues wink.gif

Cheers
Mertay
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 6 2018, 08:47 AM) *
Thanks Todd.

The thing is the Scarlet is right at hand so muting the speakers and adjusting volume for speakers and headphones is extremely simple whereas the Helix is on the floor underneath my desk, short term not a problem but day in day out it would be a ball ache.

I only get the problems when the Scarlett is connected. I may just try a 2nd Gen Scarlett I can always send it back if it gives issues wink.gif

Cheers


I went to a store years ago to buy my first studio monitors (and still use them). The store connect a cd player to a "mackie big knob" as monitor controller.

After listening the monitors with the cd I brought, I asked them to directly connect the speakers cause something was wrong although I wasn't familiar with any of the equipment there. First They didn't want to but I insisted (and almost got mad) and the sound was day and night. That cheap monitor controller sucked the life out of very good speakers.

I don't know the new-gen mackie's but included soundcard controllers (even the affordable ones) are not bad for a while now. I checked the web and a decent controller for me (better quality, headphone outs...) is pretty much as much as a soundcard. This for example;

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MC3--radial-mc3

So don't rush into swapping your current soundcard yet as we still are not 100% about the problem. I use my soundcard in a similar fashion, when the boss processor is off (and usually is) I use the soundcard to watch movies, listening music otherwise the processor would always be on and likely this would reduce its lifespan. When the processor is on, I use its software to tweak amp settings etc. but still feed into my soundcard.

I did test processor as soundcard vs connecting outs of the processor to soundcard in's and to be honest the tonal/noise improvement wasn't considerable. I guess unless I record something very important for me, wouldn't disable my soundcard.
Phil66
Ooooooooops. I've just ordered a 2nd Gen 18i8 to be here tomorrow. Thing is it's no problem because if I get the same issue I can just send it back saying that it causes freezing, I might even decide to keep it and sell my old one just because it is a better version. Either way I'm sure we'll get it sorted one way or another.

Cheers

Phil
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