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Phil66
Hello folks,

As part of my injury rehab I'm learning THIS lesson as it's not too demanding on my left arm/shoulder, as a side lesson Gab suggested THIS lesson.

One thing that is confusing me, and please don't say "Just play your guitar" laugh.gif I have a need to understand. My question is this, Why are eighth note triplets called "eighth notes" when there are twelve of them???? Shouldn't they be called twelfth note triplets? I thought eighth notes lasted for an eighth of a bar??? blink.gif wacko.gif

I think this is the kind of thing that makes music theory difficult for me to take in.

I've asked Gab in my thread but I've posted it here to help others too.

Cheers

Phil
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 6 2020, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello folks,

As part of my injury rehab I'm learning THIS lesson as it's not too demanding on my left arm/shoulder, as a side lesson Gab suggested THIS lesson.

One thing that is confusing me, and please don't say "Just play your guitar" laugh.gif I have a need to understand. My question is this, Why are eighth note triplets called "eighth notes" when there are twelve of them???? Shouldn't they be called twelfth note triplets? I thought eighth notes lasted for an eighth of a bar??? blink.gif wacko.gif

I've asked Gab in my thread but I've posted it here to help others too.

Cheers

Phil


They are not really called "eighth notes" though, they're called "eighth note triplets". cool.gif
And if they were 12-note triplets you would have 18 twelve-notes! But twelve-notes are not a thing anyway. How would you flag a 12th-note in notation? Mathematically of course it could probably be considered a thing.

It's in the name "triplet", really, for me at least. Or rather that it means playing 3 notes in the time of two. Whether that is three 16th-notes in the time of two 16-the notes (16th-note triplets) or 8th note triplets. Or quarter-note triplets for that matter. Any note value can be a triplet, though some are not used that much.
Potsau
Use a metronome. every click you must clap 3 times. The 4th clap should end on the 2nd click. and so on. All in all, try to clap 3 times within one click. So you got 12 8ths in a 4/4.


Phil66
QUOTE (Potsau @ Oct 6 2020, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Use a metronome. every click you must clap 3 times. The 4th clap should end on the 2nd click. and so on. All in all, try to clap 3 times within one click. So you got 12 8ths in a 4/4.


Thanks, yes I get that, it's 123 223 323 423, it's having 12 eighth notes that gets me, it's like saying I have twelve eighths of a pint of beer in this point glass. huh.gif

Cheers
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 7 2020, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks, yes I get that, it's 123 223 323 423, it's having 12 eighth notes that gets me, it's like saying I have twelve eighths of a pint of beer in this point glass. huh.gif

Cheers


Did you see my attempt at explaining it? smile.gif
Phil66
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Oct 6 2020, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's in the name "triplet", really, for me at least. Or rather that it means playing 3 notes in the time of two. Whether that is three 16th-notes in the time of two 16-the notes (16th-note triplets) or 8th note triplets. Or quarter-note triplets for that matter. Any note value can be a triplet, though some are not used that much.


Thanks Ben,

I don't really get the "playing two notes in the time of two", in this instance three notes are played per quarter note . In my head it would make more sense to call them quarter note triplets as each triplet is played on a quarter note. At least then there is some relationship going on. With the term "eighth note triplet", I can't see anything to do with eight anywhere.

Cheers buddy

Phil


QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Oct 7 2020, 06:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did you see my attempt at explaining it? smile.gif


I was typing my reply as you were typing that wink.gif I didn't do the rules in the chronological order, don't know why.

See above. smile.gif
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 7 2020, 07:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Ben,

I don't really get the "playing two notes in the time of two", in this instance three notes are played per quarter note . In my head it would make more sense to call them quarter note triplets as each triplet is played on a quarter note. At least then there is some relationship going on. With the term "eighth note triplet", I can't see anything to do with eight anywhere.

Cheers buddy

Phil


It's three notes in the time of two though. Not two in two. Two in two would not be a triplet. A quarter note triplet would be three quarter notes in the time of two quarter notes though, so using that term gets some other note values mixed.



Essentially a triplet is 3 notes of a specific note value played over the same duration of 2 notes of the same specific note value.

EDIT: You could also look at it this way: A triplet is 2/3 of that given note value notated by the flag of the rhythm value. I think the answer to your original question of why it can't be twelve-notes is because of the way we notate rhythm with the flags. 8th notes having one line, 16th notes two and so on. Our rhythm notation is in it's simplest form powers of two - 1 (whole), 2 (half), 4 (quarters), 8 (eighth), 16, 32 and so on. To notate a note lasting a "twelvth note" you'd have to notate it in a way that would make sense, and I personally think a triplet rhythm notation makes sense for that.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 7 2020, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was going my reply as you were typing that wink.gif I didn't do the rules in the chronological order, don't know why.

See above. smile.gif


No worries, thought you'd missed it smile.gif
Caelumamittendum
Here's another decent video:



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 7 2020, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks, yes I get that, it's 123 223 323 423, it's having 12 eighth notes that gets me, it's like saying I have twelve eighths of a pint of beer in this point glass. huh.gif

Cheers


With a triplet it would be more like saying you have twelve "2/3rds of eights" of a pint, adding up to a full pint.
Phil66
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Oct 7 2020, 06:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's three notes in the time of two though. Not two in two. Two in two would not be a triplet. A quarter note triplet would be three quarter notes in the time of two quarter notes though, so using that term gets some other note values mixed.



Essentially a triplet is 3 notes of a specific note value played over the same duration of 2 notes of the same specific note value.

EDIT: You could also look at it this way: A triplet is 2/3 of that given note value notated by the flag of the rhythm value. I think the answer to your original question of why it can't be twelve-notes is because of the way we notate rhythm with the flags. 8th notes having one line, 16th notes two and so on. Our rhythm notation is in it's simplest form powers of two - 1 (whole), 2 (half), 4 (quarters), 8 (eighth), 16, 32 and so on. To notate a note lasting a "twelvth note" you'd have to notate it in a way that would make sense, and I personally think a triplet rhythm notation makes sense for that.



No worries, thought you'd missed it smile.gif


Thanks Ben,

It kinda makes sense now sort of in a way wink.gif

I haven't had chance to watch the video, I'll try this evening. I understand why people say "Just play it", when it comes to understanding what you're doing, and often doing intuitively, it can get in the way. I've played things in the past and played them okay, then I've come across something, like maybe eighth note triplets, and when you think about it and try to do it, you struggle. Weird.

Cheers buddy, thank you for your time.

Phil
Gabriel Leopardi
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Oct 7 2020, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Excellent explanation Cael! This graphic explains it very clearly.


Phil66
Would quarter note triplets played at 180bpm sound like eighth note triplets played at 90bpm?
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 20 2020, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would quarter note triplets played at 180bpm sound like eighth note triplets played at 90bpm?


Yes smile.gif
Phil66
I thought so but every time I think something about music theory I get thrown a curve ball biggrin.gif
Todd Simpson
Great job on the explanation BEN!!! I've never thought of it this way but it's perfect. Well done.


QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Dec 20 2020, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes smile.gif

Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 21 2020, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great job on the explanation BEN!!! I've never thought of it this way but it's perfect. Well done.


The picture wasn't mine, but it's the way I "see" triplets. I was going to make a similar picture in Guitar Pro, but someone had already done so on Google and it was easier to just use that smile.gif
Phil66
Sooooo, if you play triplets on the 1, 2, 3 and 4 it's the same as your diagram? except your diagram has the & note inbetween making it eighth note triplets but they are just the same as quarter note triplets?

Would you play 16th note triplets just on the 1, 2, 3, and 4? So each triplet would be played over four 16th notes?

I'm just trying to get this in my head, music often seems unnecessarily complex.

Cheers

Phil
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 22 2020, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sooooo, if you play triplets on the 1, 2, 3 and 4 it's the same as your diagram? except your diagram has the & note inbetween making it eighth note triplets but they are just the same as quarter note triplets?

Would you play 16th note triplets just on the 1, 2, 3, and 4? So each triplet would be played over four 16th notes?

I'm just trying to get this in my head, music often seems unnecessarily complex.

Cheers

Phil


The diagram from above shows 8th note triplets. They are not the same as quarter note triplets.

"Triplets" is a bit of a vague term, I'd say. As you really need the notation rhythm value too, i.e. "eight note triplets" (there would be 12 of those in a bar of 4/4). Quarter note triplets you would have 6 in a bar of 4/4. Half note triplets you would have 3. And to go in the other direction you would have twenty-four 16th note triplets, so yes, they would land one beat 1, 2, 3 and 4 - with 6 notes in each beat.

A quarter note triplet would look like this (the top section):

Click to view attachment

I've notated the regular quarter notes so you can see them, as well as the pulse in the bar.

I think what's confusing you is that a triplet is NOT three notes in the time of the note-value. I.e. a quarter note triplet is not three notes in the space of 1 quarter note, but rather 3 notes in the time of 2 quarter notes. Same with the eighth note triplets smile.gif

I would think of "eighth note triplets" as quicker eighth notes, if that makes sense.

Maybe I'm causing more confusion here, but:

1 quarter note = 2 eighth notes = 3 eighth note triplets
Phil66
Thanks for your patience and explanation Ben, I appreciate it but, I think for now I need to shut up and play my guitar wink.gif

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