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Kristofer Dahl
Hey GMC!

I have been working with Ken behind the scenes to come up with a new collab concept!

We wanted to make sure there was something in it for everybody - so we ended up with a track I would describe as Vai-meets-Slash-meets-GMC πŸ€˜πŸ˜…

Click to view attachment

The idea is that we record over whichever section(s) we like. I will then mix it all together and try to add some vocals as well.

Here are the sections:

00:02 - 00:23 C Lydian

00:24-00:44 C - Ab - F (power chords) - try C minor pentatonic, C aeolian

00:44 - 01:04 Abmaj7 - Gm7 - Cm11 - F9 - try C minor pentatonic, C Dorian, C aeolian

Tempo: 92 bpm

* For best results, please send me your guitar only file without any reverb or delay
* To facilitate my mixing, please send me your track starting from "point 0" (ie from the first count-in)

Looking forward to hear what you think!

-----

>>Listen to the FINAL RESULT!


Be sure to listen to it in the GMC Radio Player as well.
Phil66
I'll have a go but I can't think of how to combine a Slash and Vai vibe huh.gif
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 14 2021, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll have a go but I can't think of how to combine a Slash and Vai vibe huh.gif


No need to combine anything, you just have to play like Phil πŸ‘Š We really don't want to sound like any copycats anyway 😀

The "Vai meets Slash" title is just referring to how the backing track sounds!
klasaine
The chords for the second mellow (Vai) part are Abmaj7 - G7#9 - Cm11 - F9.
*That's my editing mistake as I originally wrote it in another key but named the chords wrong when I sent it to Kris.

@Phil66 ... the two parts are separate. You don't have to play like either of those guys. I won't be.
Mertay
The second parts second chord might be a bit tricky...I started noodling without giving a full listen, at the first chord of the second part I was like "cool I got this" and then the second chord gave me a brain freeze laugh.gif
Phil66
Okay, here are a couple of ideas. Any advice on how to develop them would be great thanks. I know the second half of the middle take needs a lot more notes but I ran out of ideas. I can work on that tomorrow. I just want to know if I should bin them and start again or not?

If you can use them Kris, I can send the files you need.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vai-meets-slash-intro-take-1

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vai-meets-slash-middle-take-1

Cheers

klasaine
QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 14 2021, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The second parts second chord might be a bit tricky...I started noodling without giving a full listen, at the first chord of the second part I was like "cool I got this" and then the second chord gave me a brain freeze laugh.gif


When you say 'second part' which progression are you referring to?
The Lydian section ... Cmaj7#11 - Bm7
The power chords ... C5 - Ab5 - F5
The 'soul' section ... Abmaj7 - G7#9 - Cm11 - F9
Mertay
QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 14 2021, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When you say 'second part' which progression are you referring to?
The Lydian section ... Cmaj7#11 - Bm7
The power chords ... C5 - Ab5 - F5
The 'soul' section ... Abmaj7 - G7#9 - Cm11 - F9


26th second, I hear it as a Abmaj
klasaine
QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 14 2021, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
26th second, I hear it as a Abmaj


Yeah, the Ab. I figured that's what you were talking about but I just wanted to make sure.
It's still part of C minor - the VI chord. Minor penta and blues works perfectly over it.
*There are no 3rds in any of those power chords unless a partial popped out by itself.
Todd Simpson
Super Awesome! Count me in!!!
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 14 2021, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay, here are a couple of ideas. Any advice on how to develop them would be great thanks. I know the second half of the middle take needs a lot more notes but I ran out of ideas. I can work on that tomorrow. I just want to know if I should bin them and start again or not?

If you can use them Kris, I can send the files you need.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vai-meets-slash-intro-take-1

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vai-meets-slash-middle-take-1

Cheers


Thanks Phil,

These takes are musical to my ears and you can def use them as they are or as a foundation for something more elaborate.

My thoughts "Vai Meets Slash Intro Take 1"

This take is structured as call and response, however the response (ie 00:10) follows pretty much the same structure as the "call" part. Why not change direction (ie if you start ascending then descend in your response) - OR if you want to keep the same melodic movement create a slight variation in rhythm. You could also apply both of these suggestions - and then it might sound less like call and response, if you stray too much from the original idea. This is really not a problem though, as the concept of "call and response" is really just a creative tool. So if the cretaivity is there anyway, there is no need to think in terms of "call and response".

On a general note this take sounds scalar - that's fine but if you want to get more innovative try disrupting the even rhythmic flow and/or throw in some wider intervals.

My thoughts "Vai Meets Slash Middle Take 1"

You are onto something here:
QUOTE
I know the second half of the middle take needs a lot more notes but I ran out of ideas.


You don't necessarily need more notes, however it is correct that from a musical perspective - we sort of expect this lead to go towards a climax. However countless guitarists have achieved this without playing fast or adding many notes.

For example you can get more intense by adding a more intense vibrato, a more daring note choice - or maybe bend from a note that is outside of the key / ie sounds wrong. Anything unexpected that ads intensity is good: you could start slidding like a madman, add the toggle / killswitch effect / throw in a wah-wah / change sound patch / double stops / add tremolo picking close to the bridge etc etc
Caelumamittendum
Am I the only ones who get some "unpleasent" static sound around the second section (24 seconds in)? Almost like a crackling sound from an old vinyl, but not in the nice way.

I don't hear this on other songs. Just this one. When I put the song in Reaper it peaks at around +0.8 dB. I don't know if this is the issue?

I hear it in the backing in Phil's take too, though the volume of the backing is lower.
Kristofer Dahl
There is some slight amount of "analog" noise going on there, I have exported the drum beat only so you can hear it more clearly. Is this what you are reacting on perhaps?

Click to view attachment
Caelumamittendum
Yes, I suspect that is it (I've only listened to that last file on my phone). It's fair enough if intentional, but it sort of sticks out a lot to my ears as "unpleasent" and sort of something that made my ears go "is something wrong with my speakers? Is it something peaking?"
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jun 15 2021, 11:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, I suspect that is it (I've only listened to that last file on my phone). It's fair enough if intentional, but it sort of sticks out a lot to my ears as "unpleasent" and sort of something that made my ears go "is something wrong with my speakers? Is it something peaking?"


Yes - this is the kind of thing our ears are trained to detect and remove.

However in this case, if I remove it - the beat will just sound like a bunch digital samples already heard & used a thousand times. The noise to me is what makes it come to life, and creates a bond between the distorted rhythm guitars (which typically do not belong to this kind of beat).
Caelumamittendum
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 15 2021, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes - this is the kind of thing our ears are trained to detect and remove.

However in this case, if I remove it - the beat will just sound like a bunch digital samples already heard & used a thousand times. The noise to me is what makes it come to life, and creates a bond between the distorted rhythm guitars (which typically do not belong to this kind of beat).


I get the idea behind that, it just sort of stuck out quite a bit to my ears. I don't have any other suggestions though.
Phil66
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 15 2021, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Phil,

These takes are musical to my ears and you can def use them as they are or as a foundation for something more elaborate.

My thoughts "Vai Meets Slash Intro Take 1"

This take is structured as call and response, however the response (ie 00:10) follows pretty much the same structure as the "call" part. Why not change direction (ie if you start ascending then descend in your response) - OR if you want to keep the same melodic movement create a slight variation in rhythm. You could also apply both of these suggestions - and then it might sound less like call and response, if you stray too much from the original idea. This is really not a problem though, as the concept of "call and response" is really just a creative tool. So if the cretaivity is there anyway, there is no need to think in terms of "call and response".

On a general note this take sounds scalar - that's fine but if you want to get more innovative try disrupting the even rhythmic flow and/or throw in some wider intervals.

My thoughts "Vai Meets Slash Middle Take 1"

You are onto something here:


You don't necessarily need more notes, however it is correct that from a musical perspective - we sort of expect this lead to go towards a climax. However countless guitarists have achieved this without playing fast or adding many notes.

For example you can get more intense by adding a more intense vibrato, a more daring note choice - or maybe bend from a note that is outside of the key / ie sounds wrong. Anything unexpected that ads intensity is good: you could start slidding like a madman, add the toggle / killswitch effect / throw in a wah-wah / change sound patch / double stops / add tremolo picking close to the bridge etc etc


Thank you for your advice Kris,

I'll pop those files on here for you so you can use them if you find a place and I'll work on some more.

I'm quite pleased with the beginning of "Vai Meets Slash Middle" so I'll develop the part after the rhythmic playing.

Cheers
tflava
Very nice.
I will try to participate if i have time left πŸ‘Œ

Grtz tim
Phil66
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jun 15 2021, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, I suspect that is it (I've only listened to that last file on my phone). It's fair enough if intentional, but it sort of sticks out a lot to my ears as "unpleasent" and sort of something that made my ears go "is something wrong with my speakers? Is it something peaking?"


I heard that too and thought exactly the same. I was checking levels everywhere.
klasaine
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 15 2021, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is some slight amount of "analog" noise going on there, I have exported the drum beat only so you can hear it more clearly. Is this what you are reacting on perhaps?

Click to view attachment


It's the "old vinyl" sound.
Is it in the sample or did you add it?
Can it be turned down a bit?
Kristofer Dahl
Here is a test export where I have lowered the noise level:
Caelumamittendum
Maybe it's just my "modern ear" that is not used to that sound, so it registers as something "wrong".
tflava
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 14 2021, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Nice motif Phil 😎



This is the idea i come up with this evening.
Will try some more and maybe the begin part.
Just wanted to share with you guys
Mertay
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 15 2021, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here is a test export where I have lowered the noise level:


Sounds like "odd" harmonic saturation, "even" type has a less stressful character but if the plug-in you use doesn't offer that I can recommend this rather new freeware; https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/gsatplus
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (tflava @ Jun 15 2021, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nice motif Phil 😎



This is the idea i come up with this evening.
Will try some more and maybe the begin part.
Just wanted to share with you guys


YEAH!! Some very promising ideas here, also some very nice target notes. Keep polishing this one, it will turn out awesome! 😎

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 15 2021, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sounds like "odd" harmonic saturation, "even" type has a less stressful character but if the plug-in you use doesn't offer that I can recommend this rather new freeware; https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/gsatplus


Cool tip Mertay, thanks!

----

...I also got some cool rock bass by Ken, will update the mix asap!
Gabriel Leopardi
Great topic and backing track! I've already been analyzing and giving feedback to Tflava and Phil's takes in Gab's Army.

I'll give this one a try soon.
Phil66
QUOTE (tflava @ Jun 15 2021, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nice motif Phil 😎


Thanks Tim, I'm liking yours too, and the tone cool.gif
tflava
[quote name='Kristofer Dahl' date='Jun 15 2021, 09:00 PM' post='789889']
YEAH!! Some very promising ideas here, also some very nice target notes. Keep polishing this one, it will turn out awesome! 😎



Thanks man. And you too Phil smile.gif
Todd Simpson
It's always tricky trying to find the balance between adding some old school "mojo" and adding in just noise that doesn't sound good. In the end end it just comes down to the "sounding good" bit smile.gif I"m sure it will find it's way as the track evolves, whether it stays the same or changes only time will tell. We are still early in the process.


QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 15 2021, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sounds like "odd" harmonic saturation, "even" type has a less stressful character but if the plug-in you use doesn't offer that I can recommend this rather new freeware; https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/gsatplus
jstcrsn


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 14 2021, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey GMC!

I have been working with Ken behind the scenes to come up with a new collab concept!

We wanted to make sure there was something in it for everybody - so we ended up with a track I would describe as Vai-meets-Slash-meets-GMC πŸ€˜πŸ˜…



Looking forward to hear what you think!

Beautiful track, am enjoying it , can't believe so few have opted in on this
Kristofer Dahl
Awesome you dig it, Cursin!

I have been mixing the track a bit more, and Ken has recorded some additional arrangement tracks. I hope to get back asap with a new mix.

I also tried adding some vocals today. That did not go too well though...it's much easier to hide behind noisy drums/guitars whereas this one seems to call for more precise vocals ( and the problem is that I suck πŸ˜… )

Hope to get a take from you mate πŸ‘Š
Caelumamittendum
I'll try and get a take soon smile.gif
Kristofer Dahl
Awesome Cael! Can't wait to hear it!
jstcrsn
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 23 2021, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hope to get a take from you mate πŸ‘Š

Hope to be able to play it, you know that each individual lick is doable syndrome, but sometimes stringing them together is challenging
Kristofer Dahl
QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 24 2021, 04:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hope to be able to play it, you know that each individual lick is doable syndrome, but sometimes stringing them together is challenging


For sure, giving the whole solo a natural flow is a different story! I also find this very challenging for written solos.
tflava
Hello guys,

Here is my participation.
Do you want only audio or also my vid?
Click to view attachment



Greetz Tim
Kristofer Dahl
Thanks alot mate - very cool solo! I don't plan on doing any video - but it's always cool to see you guys play your performances!

---

Here is an update with vocals and more elaborate arrangement.
Click to view attachment


Sapere aude
(Dare to know)

Ad astra per aspera
(Through adversity to the stars)

Alea iacta est
(the die is cast)

Acta non verba
(Deeds, not words)

Ubi amor, ibi dolor
(Where there's love, there's pain.)

Amor vincit omnia
(Love conquers all things)

Though it might not be totally reciprocal
I know that in the end, what we’ll see
Is just picture
Of what used to be
Of what seemed to be
Horizontality burned into verticality
But what turned out to be…reality
It’s the real you and me
FreePizza
QUOTE (tflava @ Jun 24 2021, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello guys,

Here is my participation.


Great Slash feel, man! I'm digging this track. πŸ‘
klasaine
Very Nice Tim!

QUOTE (tflava @ Jun 24 2021, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello guys,

Here is my participation.
Do you want only audio or also my vid?
Click to view attachment



Greetz Tim

tflava
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 24 2021, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks alot mate - very cool solo! I don't plan on doing any video - but it's always cool to see you guys play your performances!

---

Here is an update with vocals and more elaborate arrangement.
Click to view attachment


Allright thanks man. there is a little bit delay on the track i send you but i accidently recorded it with my delay pedal on and not the DI pedal.

QUOTE (FreePizza @ Jun 24 2021, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great Slash feel, man! I'm digging this track. πŸ‘


Thanks man. I didnt search for the Slash sound but it was just what came in my mind smile.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 24 2021, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very Nice Tim!


Thanks Ken
Caelumamittendum
Hey Kris!

Cool vocals! Any chance we can hear the first part with some more layers and perhaps more reverb? More towards this feeling:



I think that could be cool! At least to hear how it would sound!
Kristofer Dahl
Love those sacral choirs! I don't really have the skills for that many harmonies - but i can certainly be inspired by the feel of this example. Watch this space - I will be doing more tweaks
Todd Simpson
taking inspiration from your HOT COUNTRY mission I'm trying to do this solo using finger picking and avoiding shredding. It's turnout out to be quite tricky but I dig how it's coming along! A very interesting backing track to be sure.
klasaine
I won't be doing any lead on this one as most, if not all of the chordal stuff is me. There's enough klasaine on it already.
jstcrsn
QUOTE (klasaine @ Jul 25 2021, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I won't be doing any lead on this one as most, if not all of the chordal stuff is me. There's enough klasaine on it already.

thanks for finally figuring that out huh.gif
Todd Simpson
Love your chordal work on here. I think this one is gonna turn out great. Very original backing.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jul 25 2021, 05:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I won't be doing any lead on this one as most, if not all of the chordal stuff is me. There's enough klasaine on it already.

tflava
Yeah its a great chord progression with some more complex chords. Its a little more difficult to freely improvise over this one
klasaine
The beauty of this seemingly complex chord progression is that you don't have to be complex melodically. The chords take care of that for you.
tflava
QUOTE (klasaine @ Jul 26 2021, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The beauty of this seemingly complex chord progression is that you don't have to be complex melodically. The chords take care of that for you.


YEAH thats another way of thinking of chord changes playing smile.gif
Its more practice to hit the changes but the chords dictates more what to play. Something i try to work on lately. It takes slow progress and is hard practice but its very rewarding
Todd Simpson
I was on facebook the other day and Phil has suggested a member of a group we both belong to, come check out GMC and the person responded that it came up as a PHISHING SITE with a warning from his anti virus software. I wanted to ask if anyone else has ever see this? It would sure turn people off if they didn't know the site was legit?


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 24 2021, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Love those sacral choirs! I don't really have the skills for that many harmonies - but i can certainly be inspired by the feel of this example. Watch this space - I will be doing more tweaks

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