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GMC Forum > Discussion Boards > VINTAGE GMC > Community Activities and Tutorials > Ask an Instructor > Luciana Segovia (Singing Instructor)
Owen
Well I wanted to know your opinion on what make's a good voice, is it the time and effort put into training your voice and honing it to perfection or are some people more naturally gifted with good voices?

I realise that guitar is more something you can train to perfection - like Kris says no natural talent required, but vocally you only have what you are given originally.

So basically, do you think great singers are born with a natural ability or work towards good voices? Or perhaps a bit of both?

smile.gif
mattacuk
Well this is a really good topic Owen - I feel some people have the natual ability, and then "fine tune" it with training. Where as others have to work hard at it !! smile.gif

But what do i know about singing, i sound like a strangled cat! wink.gif
coffeeman
Excellent question!!! I love to sing, but the truth is that I dont have a goog voice. So if i have not a good instrument how can I make to sing good?

So lets wait until Luciana give us an answer , and maybe he will give us a litle hope.
RobM
QUOTE (Owen @ Nov 7 2007, 12:55 AM) *
Well I wanted to know you opinion on what make's a good voice, is it the time and effort put into training your voice and honing it to perfection or are some people more naturally gifted with good voices?

I realise that guitar is more something you can train to perfection - like Kris says no natural talent required, but vocally you only have what you are given originally.

So basically, do you think great singers are born with a natural ability or work towards good voices? Or perhaps a bit of both?

smile.gif


IMHO I think the really great voices are natural and then trained to be what they are, Singers like Bruce Davidson, Paul Rogers, Freddie Mercury, Elton john are all natural and then honed to perfection. I think singers like Ozzie, David Lee Roth, James Hetfield are more perfected sounds than they are naturally gifted. They all sound good for what they do but you wouldn't expect Hetfield to sing good bye yellow brick road, just as much as you wouldn't expect Elton John to sing Enter Sandman. One side is more about the lyrics with the music playing with it and the other is more about the music with the lyrics with it.

I didn't really edxplain that using the correct terms, but I think you get the idea?
Resurrection
I agree with the notion that the best singers do have a natural ability that is improved by training and practice. Many good singers have sung since they were infants, with no more formal practice than simply listening and imitating the music they heard around them. That, to me, indicates some natural ability that didn't come about just by training their brains and their bodies with singing practice.

Not a very scientific explanation, I know. More like a gut feeling smile.gif
Owen
Interesting replies guys, I see this as a more divided camp than what we would be perhaps saying about guitar - "work hard and suceed". smile.gif

I suppose we shall have to wait and see what Luciana says, I personally think Matt's idea is probably most along the right lines. Anyways, we shall see.

Does anyone know any interesting articles on this subject?
Xranthoius
QUOTE (mattacuk @ Nov 7 2007, 12:04 AM) *
i sound like a strangled cat! wink.gif


ditto! laugh.gif
ActiveX
All I know is I could practice singing all day every day, and I would still suck. Can't carry a tune to save my life.
When I was in school, I got booted out of the choir because the instructor thought that I was singing badly on purpose!
JVM
Are you tone deaf? biggrin.gif
ActiveX
QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 6 2007, 10:26 PM) *
Are you tone deaf? biggrin.gif

That would certainly explain a lot! biggrin.gif
Luciana Segovia
Guys...

I think that I'm a perfect example. I represent the people who doesn't born with a natural talent. I sing since I have memory and my ears was training so much, and that's help me a lot.... Then I studied vocal technique and help me more.
I believe in both things... people who born with a natural talent exist, and you can recognize them easily(like Freddy Mercury, Jannis Joplin or Bono ). In the other hand you have "my part"... and curiously I believe that we are a majority. I can give you a lot of examples: Dave Grohl, Joe Ramone, Madonna, Scott Weiland, David Matthews, Robert Smith, etc, etc. All these people were developed their voices with the time. Then we have an important point, and it is that many good singers don't sing their own style, so that make we think that their voices are not good, but this is not real.

So!.. to have a good voice includes a combination of things... Attitude, Perseverance, Passion, and in many cases a natural talent.

Thanks god for the diversity of singers or styles, don't you think? biggrin.gif
Spiderusalem
QUOTE (Luciana @ Nov 7 2007, 11:02 PM) *
Guys...

I think that I'm a perfect example. I represent the people who doesn't born with a natural talent. I sing since I have memory and my ears was training so much, and that's help me a lot.... Then I studied vocal technique and help me more.
I believe in both things... people who born with a natural talent exist, and you can recognize them easily(like Freddy Mercury, Jannis Joplin or Bono ). In the other hand you have "my part"... and curiously I believe that we are a majority. I can give you a lot of examples: Dave Grohl, Joe Ramone, Madonna, Scott Weiland, David Matthews, Robert Smith, etc, etc. All these people were developed their voices with the time. Then we have an important point, and it is that many good singers don't sing their own style, so that make we think that their voices are not good, but this is not real.

So!.. to have a good voice includes a combination of things... Attitude, Perseverance, Passion, and in many cases a natural talent.

Thanks god for the diversity of singers or styles, don't you think? biggrin.gif



you have no idea how encouraging your words are to me smile.gif

I'm a big fan of the underdog. The person that made something out of nothing to begin with.

I'm sure here at GMC that makes up a lot of us, and its folks like you and words like that that give guys like me the courage to try and do what you do.

ah did that make sense?
Luciana Segovia
QUOTE (Spiderusalem @ Nov 8 2007, 08:15 AM) *
you have no idea how encouraging your words are to me smile.gif

I'm a big fan of the underdog. The person that made something out of nothing to begin with.

I'm sure here at GMC that makes up a lot of us, and its folks like you and words like that that give guys like me the courage to try and do what you do.

ah did that make sense?



Of course!!!

That make sense!, And if it was not like that ... do not worry, the music not always makes sense!!!! smile.gif
sometimes it's about magic and what it make us feel... laugh.gif
AudunESP
QUOTE (Luciana @ Nov 8 2007, 08:02 AM) *
Guys...

I think that I'm a perfect example. I represent the people who doesn't born with a natural talent. I sing since I have memory and my ears was training so much, and that's help me a lot.... Then I studied vocal technique and help me more.
I believe in both things... people who born with a natural talent exist, and you can recognize them easily(like Freddy Mercury, Jannis Joplin or Bono ). In the other hand you have "my part"... and curiously I believe that we are a majority. I can give you a lot of examples: Dave Grohl, Joe Ramone, Madonna, Scott Weiland, David Matthews, Robert Smith, etc, etc. All these people were developed their voices with the time. Then we have an important point, and it is that many good singers don't sing their own style, so that make we think that their voices are not good, but this is not real.

So!.. to have a good voice includes a combination of things... Attitude, Perseverance, Passion, and in many cases a natural talent.

Thanks god for the diversity of singers or styles, don't you think? biggrin.gif


I can't tell you how much you encouraged me smile.gif Now i really have a hope of beeing a great singer. I love to sing, and i sing nearly every day. But my voice is so, hard, without softness if you know what i mean, so should i just go on singing songs that fits that kind of voice or is it hope for me to sing soft one day?
A really helpfull friend of mine said iris by goo goo dolls really do fit my voice though:)
Saoirse O'Shea
Luciana (and everyone else),
thank you for some great replies. My father sang as a Cathedral Choir Boy and very young I sung as a soprano before my voice broke, after which I was told 'out'. I've spent the last near 40 years or so believing that I can't sing for toffee but with Luciana's lessons and her positivism, and yours, am slowly building up courage to maybe try again. (Warning to all the cats in the neighborhood - be scared wink.gif unsure.gif .)

Thanks all.

Cheeers,
Tony
Spiderusalem
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 10 2007, 11:51 PM) *
Luciana (and everyone else),
thank you for some great replies. My father sang as a Cathedral Choir Boy and very young I sung as a soprano before my voice broke, after which I was told 'out'. I've spent the last near 40 years or so believing that I can't sing for toffee but with Luciana's lessons and her positivism, and yours, am slowly building up courage to maybe try again. (Warning to all the cats in the neighborhood - be scared wink.gif unsure.gif .)

Thanks all.

Cheeers,
Tony


+1. Thanks Luciana.
exorcyze
I'd agree with Luciana 100% - it's a lot like guitar. Some people just have a natural gift for things - voice included. But a lot of others really have to work hard at it.

One of the important things I think was kind of left out is that with singing, moreso than with guitar, it is important to find your own style and go with what works for you. If you don't have natural talent, it will be extremely difficult for you to try and replicate someone elses sound that isn't in your natural style. Not only that, but it's part of what will make you unique and stand out as an artist.

The first time I heard bands like Atreyu and Lovedrug ( older stuff for both of them ) I thought their voices were a little ... odd. Didn't like them a whole lot in the beginning, but there was something about it that kept me listening anyway. There was something different and unique about it that wasn't the same old sound as everyone else. I prefer the older stuff because they had a more signature sound for the singers that worked very well - now both of them sound more homogenized ( imo ) with the vocal style.
Saoirse O'Shea
QUOTE (exorcyze @ Nov 11 2007, 03:06 AM) *
it will be extremely difficult for you to try and replicate someone elses sound that isn't in your natural style. Not only that, but it's part of what will make you unique and stand out as an artist.



Question then for anyone - to what extent can a vocal harmoniser like Antares Autotune 'fill' in the gap between ability and my bumbling? That's both in terms of adding a bit of 'sparkle', if you see what I mean, and attempting the (probably) impossible of correcting my bad singing?

I'm particularly interested as it seems to me that an awful lot of commercial 'hit' records have Antares or something similar processing the vocals now a days. (And you can spot them easily rolleyes.gif .) Studio wise I'm guilty, I use Melodyne and that can correct an awful lot of issues - not just with singing but instruments generally.

When we talk about 'feel' (and I do agree with the idea) studio musicians however often aren't really expected to be 'individual' but to be able to play/sing technically correctly - if you see what I mean - in the pocket, on pitch, etc and pretty much homogenised. But if they can't - Antares, Melodyne fill the gap...

Perhaps I'm being overly provocative but for me the question might be expanded to 'Natural ability, training, or studio processing'? Take a look at 'X Factor' - I'll bet that the winner will rely heavily on the studio cool.gif .

Cheers,
Tony

ps Apologies Luciana and all who can sing, you do have a gift and good singers are a joy to work with in the studio.
Luciana Segovia
QUOTE (AudunESP @ Nov 11 2007, 05:17 AM) *
I can't tell you how much you encouraged me smile.gif Now i really have a hope of beeing a great singer. I love to sing, and i sing nearly every day. But my voice is so, hard, without softness if you know what i mean, so should i just go on singing songs that fits that kind of voice or is it hope for me to sing soft one day?
A really helpfull friend of mine said iris by goo goo dolls really do fit my voice though:)


I've been reading all my personal board and I found that i don't answered this..(sorry)...

With practice, and patience you can give to your voice different sound. If you thing that your voice is too hard. try to sing soft!. think in softly and sing softly.. Use your imagination... try to imagine that you are singing to the ear to the person that you love, at night... I'm sure that you can't growl. wub.gif


When you are study vocal technique it's very important the imagination. the voice can reproduce that things.. extra sensations. Use that plus!
Luciana Segovia
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 11 2007, 08:51 AM) *
Luciana (and everyone else),
thank you for some great replies. My father sang as a Cathedral Choir Boy and very young I sung as a soprano before my voice broke, after which I was told 'out'. I've spent the last near 40 years or so believing that I can't sing for toffee but with Luciana's lessons and her positivism, and yours, am slowly building up courage to maybe try again. (Warning to all the cats in the neighborhood - be scared wink.gif unsure.gif .)

Thanks all.

Cheeers,
Tony



Oh Tony! biggrin.gif

I'm sure that you can sing again.. if you feel it.. you can do it! smile.gif
Luciana Segovia
QUOTE (exorcyze @ Nov 11 2007, 10:06 AM) *
I'd agree with Luciana 100% - it's a lot like guitar. Some people just have a natural gift for things - voice included. But a lot of others really have to work hard at it.

One of the important things I think was kind of left out is that with singing, moreso than with guitar, it is important to find your own style and go with what works for you. If you don't have natural talent, it will be extremely difficult for you to try and replicate someone elses sound that isn't in your natural style. Not only that, but it's part of what will make you unique and stand out as an artist.

The first time I heard bands like Atreyu and Lovedrug ( older stuff for both of them ) I thought their voices were a little ... odd. Didn't like them a whole lot in the beginning, but there was something about it that kept me listening anyway. There was something different and unique about it that wasn't the same old sound as everyone else. I prefer the older stuff because they had a more signature sound for the singers that worked very well - now both of them sound more homogenized ( imo ) with the vocal style.



see wink.gif
Luciana Segovia
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 11 2007, 11:11 AM) *
Question then for anyone - to what extent can a vocal harmoniser like Antares Autotune 'fill' in the gap between ability and my bumbling? That's both in terms of adding a bit of 'sparkle', if you see what I mean, and attempting the (probably) impossible of correcting my bad singing?

I'm particularly interested as it seems to me that an awful lot of commercial 'hit' records have Antares or something similar processing the vocals now a days. (And you can spot them easily rolleyes.gif .) Studio wise I'm guilty, I use Melodyne and that can correct an awful lot of issues - not just with singing but instruments generally.

When we talk about 'feel' (and I do agree with the idea) studio musicians however often aren't really expected to be 'individual' but to be able to play/sing technically correctly - if you see what I mean - in the pocket, on pitch, etc and pretty much homogenised. But if they can't - Antares, Melodyne fill the gap...

Perhaps I'm being overly provocative but for me the question might be expanded to 'Natural ability, training, or studio processing'? Take a look at 'X Factor' - I'll bet that the winner will rely heavily on the studio cool.gif .

Cheers,
Tony

ps Apologies Luciana and all who can sing, you do have a gift and good singers are a joy to work with in the studio.



Wow! this is a big issue: Antares dry.gif

Well it's true.. there's a lot of programs who process the voice turning a simple person in a good singer ...but Aparently!
I hear about that program in studios but.. what happen in live?. Can this simple person be a good singer in live?... unsure.gif
Fsgdjv
I have a question about this to Luiciana and everybody else who feel they want to answer. I understand that everybody who isn't tone deaf (something I've realised that I'm not, to my great surprise) can learn to hit the notes, but that doesn't make it sound good. My question is, can someone with a voice that just sounds bad learn to make it sound good when singing? I've been thinking a lot about this lately and wondering if it's even worth to try to practice. (Allthough I've realised I could keep on practicing singing just for fun even if I never got anywhere..)
Luciana Segovia
Good question... smile.gif

My answer is : Yes!

When you are studying singing you are not only learning to sing on pitch. This is an important thing, but not the only one.
To sound good is like studying the "quality" of your voice (another important thing). This issue is about how much air are you using with the vocal cords. How the vibration of them is. When the vocal cords are vibrating wrong cause the air is not enough or too much, the sound of the voice is clearly bad and you can feel it too. So if you think that you have a bad sound is because of that. To train and control breathing is the answer. And then singing scales for the sound.


hope it help!

Luciana
Antipolitik
Hi,

lots of people use Melodyne and Antares in the studio. They come in rack versions as well so getting the same pitch
control live isn't too difficult. You can check out this gear: http://www.voicetonepedals.com/correct.html

Personally I mix my guitar practice with singing practice. I sang really really bad at start but slowly I'm getting a better pitch control. A good way too train for me is to use Antares Autotune on my vocal track. I loop a verse riff I play with my guitar and then I just go "aaaaaaaaah" "ooooooooh" and so on and look at the Antares pitch detector. It's actually a very nice feature and helps me a lot in getting better pitch control. I'm like 5% talanted when it comes to singing and 95% is pure hard work laugh.gif You can also sing the whole verse and when done run in thru Melodyne and look at the pitch detection and see where you are complete out of tune, RESING THAT PART... it's easy to fix it with Melodyne but it will sound MUCH better if you nail it yourself and then maybe use Melodyne to "finetune". Remember, sometimes it sounds sterile if you use too much of pitch control. An amount of 75-85% pitch correction should be ok. Try different values.

Anyway, keep trying all of you!

Jonas



Luciana Segovia
Well Jonas... that was an excellent advice! laugh.gif .. .. maybe some people needs to SEE before to HEAR... your advice can help that people!

Thanxs a lot !

smile.gif
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