Hi mate! It's evolving very good! I like the cuts at 2:55, guitars don't go tight with the drums there but it's just a matter of recording. But now the tune is taking shape. I love how the song evolves into the 2:33 melody, that part is epic.

I'm not sure about your thoughts about the overall structure, but now I think that the song could be complete, I don't think that it needs an extra section, do you agree?

the drums at 2:55 - I should be able to tighten that up, for some reason I thought I had it at first but listening to it now.... I can hear that Ive got the timing a bit out

My initial thoughts regarding the structure were that I could try to play a solo after the song goes back to full speed, 2:55 to 3:10.
I had an idea for the end, using the riff played at 1:22 -1:38.
maybe like you said, it doesnt need another riff, I might try it just out of curiosity. It will be easy to remove if it sucks!


Its really cool putting the bass guitar through heavy distortion and stuff you really get a massive sound!

Hi mate! This sounds very good for me. Let's try the solo and the extra riff and see how it sounds.

The next step would be to work on vocal melodies. Do you have anything in mind?

I dont really have a vocal melody figured out yet. That's going to be the most difficult part I think.
Ive been listening to early Truckfighters songs hoping for some inspiration.

Great band! I have been listening to Red Fang this week. They are great.

Let's analyze the vocal melodies of one of those songs that you are listening, please post it here.

Well, I got the inspiration for the track from this song by Truckfighters -
I 'borrowed' a little of their verse rhythm





I like Red Fang as well, really great band. Their new album is good but I think my favourite song by them is 'Dirt Wizard'. I was kinda blown away when I first heard it.

Interesting stuff. Let's go for the Truckfighters song. The vocal melody is very simple, and has been created focusing on 3 notes from C# Pentatonic Minor. Learn this notes in the guitar, play them against the chords from the song and trying to hear how the work together. You could also see what interval relation are between the notes from the melody and the chords, which notes are longer and why.

However the most important thing is to play the melody and listen to it, try to feel it and if it's possible create variations changing the order of the notes or adding any extra note.

If you do this work, diary, with your favorite songs, you will be training your melodic ear and you'll find yourself creating nice voval melodies soon.

So I should try to play the vocal melody with notes from the c# minor scale? That's cool, I will try that


I worked some more on my stoner track last night and managed to add the section to the end. Friday was my deadline for finishing the basic song.... Im quite impressed that I actually completed it LOL!
See what you think of the new part, if you feel the song is better without it then I can easily delete that part.
Also, I tried to tighten up the drum / bass part at 2:55, I think its in time now..... maybe
I added a guitar solo but its really just a few ideas, half improvised. I'd need to work more on that but I wanted to play something just to get the overall idea of how a solo would sound over that section.
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/stoner2

hehehe this is epic man! I love how this song is evolving! The solo has a killer energy, and the new part is very promising. I think that the drums in the last part should grow much more to make it explode close to the end.

I think that the song is now ready to start working on vocals, to then review the structure based on how the vocal lines start to appear. You can work on melodies using your voice or your guitar. If you prefer your guitar, you need to have in mind that vocal melodies are usually created with a few notes compared to guitar phrases. I recommend you to always at least try the melodies with your voice while you compose them.

What do you think? Can you start with vocal melodies?

Thanks Gab
I'll make a start on some vocal melodies and see how I get on. Also, I'll get the drums in that last part a bit more dynamic, thats a good idea.

should be interesting

yeah! this is becoming a very interesting work. Looking forward your first vocal ideas!

hi gabe
I was thinking about your post in the practice section when you talked about only knowing pentatonic scales. I really only know the 5 patterns of the minor pentatonic, so far those patterns have worked really well in the stuff I try to play but if you take, for example, the album 'Damnation' by Opeth ( which I listen to a lot ) the chords and solos they use sound so different from anything I know. The whole groove in that album is so cold and spooky.... its really awesome I'd love to be able to get those types of chords and solos but I clearly dont have the theory knowledge.
What would you suggest would be my next step to learn more theory? What should I do to go beyond my 5 minor pentatonic shapes to become a more complete player?

Hi Bleez! Interesting post! Based on what you said and you want to be able to do I would do this two things:

- Learning more about harmony: intervals, triads, scales, modes, chords, arpeggios.
- Analyzing "Damnation" album by Opeth.

What do you think? we can do it here...

That sounds great Im up for it mate, lets do it!
thanks.

Excellent! So here we have the list of songs to analyze, let's go in order:



Your analysis should include:
Structure, what's happening on each part (regarding instruments arrangements), what's the theory behind each part. (Check an example HERE)

And regarding theory... what do you exactly know about harmony? just pentatonic scale?

Do you know Intervals?

awesome! I'll check out the link for the song structure example and make a start with 'Windowpane".

Sorry, I dont know intervals. My theory knowledge basically begins and ends with the minor pentatonic patterns

Ok mate, I shared the Intervals link there, let's go for it. Please read it and let me know if you have questions.

sorry for the delay Gab, this has turned out to be quite a difficult task. Also I struggle to put my guitar down during my practice time to work on theory, Im so intent on practising technique. It doesn't feel like proper practice if Im not playing a guitar

I decided to look at the second track on the Damnation album, just because the structure 'seemed' a little simpler.



I have the basic structure as this -

0.00 - 0.13 intro
0.14 - 0.28 verse 1
0.28 - 0.42 - verse 2
0.42 - 1.00 - pre chorus - Db , B, Bb
1.00 - 1.27 - chorus - barre chords Emaj, B minor, A minor, some type of B chord
1.27 - 1.41 - verse 3
1.41 - 1.55 - verse 4
1.55 - 2.13 - pre chorus
2.13 - 2.41 chorus
2.41 - 3.09 - bridge - A, Bb, C, Db
3.09 - 3.37 - solo ( 2 x verse riff )
3.37 - 3.55 - pre chorus
3.55 - 4.50 chorus x 2
4.50 - end- chorus riff instrumental

The verse is basically the intro riff except it resolves to a new chord. The thing is.... I dont know what these chords are! Ive looked at the tabs and Ive played them, they sound like they are in E but I dont know what they are.

this is what he picks in the verse riff -
|---------0--------|------------0----3--------|
|-------7---7------|------1------1-------1~-|
|-----0-------0----|---4----4---------4-----|
|---7-----------7--|-------------------------|
|-------------------|-0----------------------|
|-0-----------------|------------------------|

This album may be a bit advanced for me

Hi Bleez! Excellent job!! Don't worry about the things that you can't understand at first, this will keep on happening if you analyze rich music. You feel that you are analyzing something that you can't understand so it's useless, but it's not, you are learning a lot from this. You are learning the structure used in their songs, you are learning chord progressions, new "unknown" chords that will have a name if you analyze the notes that include, and the most important thing, you are training your ear.

Let's see your mind as a room full of boxes. Each feature of this song is saved there, in different boxes. You have lots of these boxes with lots of memories and experiences. There are some moments (mostly when we are relaxed) that some of this boxes are opened, the stuff get out, connects with stuff from others and that's when an idea appears. An creative idea usually happens when this phenomenon of combination happens. Let me know if I have been clear explaining this.

In order to understand those chords, my question is, Do you know some theory about chord construction?

I think I understand what you are saying dude. I do like your way of thinking about analysing a song I dont fully understand ( yet ).


Honestly.... No I know zero about chord construction!