For Those Outside The U.s. :) Options

[Mith]

Tell us more !

Oh only got to do it once. I'm actually a decorated war vet (yeah I don't look like it now days and I was very young when I did) I was in the Navy as a engineer but I got to visit army bases sometimes and sometimes they let you play with their toys.

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[Todd Simpson]

Being a long time gun owner, and staunch defender of second amendment rights (not to mention being one of the few guys who has posted pics with other GMC members and myself AT A GUN RANGE) I thought for sure folks would know how to take this kind of post But heck, text carries very little "tone" and I have seen quite a lot of "anti gun" stufflately due to the frequent stories on the news about folks (I'm gonna call them "nut jobs") shooting up public places......

Yeah, maybe it was clear to some, but maybe not to all. Now there is no question. Thanks Todd.
With all the anti gun rhetoric we hear in this country, I am sure you can understand why some of us find no humor in this and that some folks will take it seriously since it is not uncommon for some to say these kinds of things and be completely serious about it.

NICE!!! Got a good laugh on that and thought to myself..

WALMART SHOPPER!!!

I SHOT MY FIRST TURKEY THIS WEEK!!!!!





It Scared the Shit Out of Everyone in the Frozen Food Section!

TANK TUESDAY COMES TO WALMART!! I like it!!


MITH : As Ben says "Picture/Vid or it didn't happen! more info on your TANK RUN!

Haha, I missed this comment !

Tell us more !

Oh man, to see is to believe and I still don't believe it

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[Mith]

MITH : As Ben says "Picture/Vid or it didn't happen! more info on your TANK RUN!

hahaha, well there aren't many pics of me at that ages, was never one to take photos. Only ones that probably still excise are ones of maybe me with a rifle or sleeping in the shade whenever I could. I so don't like the heat

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[Ben Higgins]

Oh only got to do it once. I'm actually a decorated war vet (yeah I don't look like it now days and I was very young when I did) I was in the Navy as a engineer but I got to visit army bases sometimes and sometimes they let you play with their toys.

That's badass.. you dark horse !

MITH : As Ben says "Picture/Vid or it didn't happen! more info on your TANK RUN!

My FB buddies have seen this but this is the closest I've got to driving one

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[AK Rich]

Being a long time gun owner, and staunch defender of second amendment rights (not to mention being one of the few guys who has posted pics with other GMC members and myself AT A GUN RANGE) I thought for sure folks would know how to take this kind of post But heck, text carries very little "tone" and I have seen quite a lot of "anti gun" stufflately due to the frequent stories on the news about folks (I'm gonna call them "nut jobs") shooting up public places......

It's all good Todd I just wanted to make sure that folks living abroad didn't get the wrong impression that here in the states folks that wanted a weapon like this couldn't just grab one off the shelf from right next to the disney movies and toss it into their cart along with their groceries and flat screen tv.

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[AdamB]

"frequent stories on the news about folks (I'm gonna call them "nut jobs") shooting up public places"

Why are nut jobs frequently shooting up public places?

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[Todd Simpson]

GOOD QUESTION!!! Speaking of which, just saw YET ANOTHER one of these stories on the news. Some "nut job" in Floridan shot up a LIBRARY before taking a bullet from a cop.

We have seen a rise in these types of things in recent years. Personally, I blame a variety of factors that were always at play but seem to be made worse by our stagnant economy.

"frequent stories on the news about folks (I'm gonna call them "nut jobs") shooting up public places"

Why are nut jobs frequently shooting up public places?

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[Cosmin Lupu]

It's all good Todd I just wanted to make sure that folks living abroad didn't get the wrong impression that here in the states folks that wanted a weapon like this couldn't just grab one off the shelf from right next to the disney movies and toss it into their cart along with their groceries and flat screen tv.

Somehow, to me this is the EXACT picture that I get, in respect to this whole thing I have nothing against owning guns, but somehow, I think that each person wanting to buy a gun should first undergo a pshychologic test which should be VERY strict.

I think that the shootings occur mainly because some people who should NEVER own guns, actually own them.

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[fkalich]

I know somebody who has a boy pushing 9 who plays with Barbie dolls, dresses up in girls clothing. His momma should have steered him towards the assault weapon toys.

40 or 50 years ago kids played with gun toys, watched shoot um up movies. Real guns were everywhere. But back then no kid would come to school and shoot up his school mates. Never ever. Don't blame modern crazy world behavior on the toys.

Uhhh... sorry mates, but I don't think weapons should be available for purchasing in a general hypermarket/store It's the same like buying a samurai sword at the supermarket..

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[fkalich]

Somehow, to me this is the EXACT picture that I get, in respect to this whole thing I have nothing against owning guns, but somehow, I think that each person wanting to buy a gun should first undergo a pshychologic test which should be VERY strict.

I think that the shootings occur mainly because some people who should NEVER own guns, actually own them.

That is what I want, to give the government power to test me psychologically and classify me according to their findings.

I personally have never known anyone personally who was the victim of serious violence, not in my entire life. The average person in my country has a 1/20,000 chance of getting murdered in some fashion on any given year. The average person has close to 100 times as big a chance of being diagnosed with cancer. I am pretty liberal I think for the most part, I certainly vote that way, but when I want to give the government any further powers, I want it to be for issues that effect a significant number of lives, not for the sensational odd occurrences that the media blows up out of proportion to serve as entertainment for the mass audiences.

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This post has been edited by fkalich: Nov 22 2014, 11:48 AM

[Cosmin Lupu]

That is what I want, to give the government power to test me psychologically and classify me according to their findings.

I personally have never known anyone personally who was the victim of serious violence, not in my entire life. The average person in my country has a 1/20,000 chance of getting murdered in some fashion on any given year. The average person has close to 100 times as big a chance of being diagnosed with cancer. I am pretty liberal I think for the most part, I certainly vote that way, but when I want to give the government any further powers, I want it to be for issues that effect a significant number of lives, not for the sensational odd occurrences that the media blows up out of proportion to serve as entertainment for the mass audiences.

Maybe - I don't live there, so I don't know how things are going actually But I still don't think that anyone should be allowed to have a gun - that's just me though

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[AdamB]

Surely checking peoples psychological stability would be flawed, though? That sort of assumes that one's mental state is not only measurable, but remains consistent in the future.

I know somebody who has a boy pushing 9 who plays with Barbie dolls, dresses up in girls clothing. His momma should have steered him towards the assault weapon toys.

40 or 50 years ago kids played with gun toys, watched shoot um up movies. Real guns were everywhere. But back then no kid would come to school and shoot up his school mates. Never ever. Don't blame modern crazy world behavior on the toys.

School shootings in the USA go back quite a way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_schoo...e_United_States

Edit:

That is what I want, to give the government power to test me psychologically and classify me according to their findings.

I don't understand this. Surely this is required in order to care for the population? I mean what if you or someone you know becomes mentally unwell, how can the government provide care for them if they're not even allowed to asses their state?

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This post has been edited by AdamB: Nov 22 2014, 04:02 PM

[klasaine]

To the Europeans - it's near impossible to truly understand unless you've spent some time here (not on vacation).

To the Americans - I heartily recommend that you spend some time in Europe (not on vacation).

I realize that is impossible for most so suffice to say that neither society is represented properly or even truthfully in each others media. "You had to be there" as they say.

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[AK Rich]

Somehow, to me this is the EXACT picture that I get, in respect to this whole thing I have nothing against owning guns, but somehow, I think that each person wanting to buy a gun should first undergo a pshychologic test which should be VERY strict.

I think that the shootings occur mainly because some people who should NEVER own guns, actually own them.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of, and why I wanted to make it clear that this is not the reality. While it is certainly true that some folks should not own a gun, and there are laws on the books that do strip people of their rights to posses one, such as certain criminal records for example. There are some in this country that would seek to strip everyone of that right when the truth is that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible law abiding citizens. And because of those in and out of Gov that would seek to strip people of the right to bear arms, the people are hesitant to give the Gov too much power to reach it's tentacles into that area , and other areas of their lives. A lot of us feel that Gov control into every aspect of our lives results in abuses of that power, tyranny, and negative liberties. So goes the saying that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The two main reasons for the right to bear arms being enshrined in our constitution are. A check on the Gov acquiring too much power so it cannot become tyrannical.(People should not fear their Gov. The Gov should fear the people in order to keep them honest and do the job we allow them to do, and send them there to do by voting them into office.) And as a deterrent to a foreign invader. (The number of hunters alone in this country far outnumber any standing army in the world.) Basically it is the right of the people to defend themselves against any threat, be it foreign or domestic.

Edit: I also would like to clear the air with Todd and I and apologize for my initial poorly worded response to his post and to say that it was not my intention to put into question his support for the second amendment. My bad Todd!

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Nov 22 2014, 08:39 PM

[Cosmin Lupu]

To the Europeans - it's near impossible to truly understand unless you've spent some time here (not on vacation).

To the Americans - I heartily recommend that you spend some time in Europe (not on vacation).

I realize that is impossible for most so suffice to say that neither society is represented properly or even truthfully in each others media. "You had to be there" as they say.

I think you are right Ken I have never been to the US and most likely a lot of the US guys here haven't yet visited Europe and that's a good reason for which we don't really know anything about each other's real environment or ways of life.

I am also using weapons but for educating my spirit, not really having them in order to fend for my life - I really hope that will not ever happen, because the laws here are very nasty. Regardless if someone breaks into your house - if you wound them, you are the guilty one and the other one not only gets away with it, but also receives damage coverage from YOU I like the way I've heard that things are in the US - if you tresspass, you do it on your own responsibility and no one but you, gets it for doing it - I find that VERY fair (if it's true)

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[Ben Higgins]

I personally have never known anyone personally who was the victim of serious violence, not in my entire life. The average person in my country has a 1/20,000 chance of getting murdered in some fashion on any given year.

This is a very important consideration that I think everyone should be making in their lives: Risk assessment.

We all tend to get suckered in by the 'defend yourself' fear mongering that is perpetuated by martial arts, self defense classes and the like. Look at the rise of Krav Maga 'Israeli Commando fighting techniques'.

Completely ignoring the fact that a set of skills designed to be used by soldiers in a war zone, not civilians, is being touted as a way to defend themselves. There's a big difference between dealing violence, and defending oneself. If you're wilfully engaging in trading blows with somebody, that's a fight. Once you cross the line between doing what's necessary to prevent harm to yourself, you're doing more than is necessary.. you're trying to punish the perp who dared target you.

Usain Bolt is probably better prepared for self defense than most martial artists.. because he'd run away faster than anyone else. Most martial artists are being taught to fight and deal damage, not defend themselves.

Why am I talking about MA and SD ? Because I believe it's applicable to most people and risk assessment. If you wrote a list of your daily activities, the locations you visit, your habits, the area in which you live.. you'd soon be able to have an idea of the types of crime that you are most likely to encounter in your life. This is the crucial bit. Violence is linked to crime. Any violence that isn't is either domestic or egoistic in nature, ie. the typical bar room 'what you looking at ?' scenario that is usually avoidable with some common sense.

Where I live, the most I would probably encounter is to witness someone littering, some teenagers out late at night talking loudly.. maybe some things get stolen from farms in the area. But that's about it. Risk of random murder, assault, rape is virtually nil. Why ? The area I live in presents no practical targets or opportunities for any criminal. None at all. It makes no sense for it to occur there.

That's a quick skim of the subject but in reality, most people have the mindset of acquiring skills that they will never need in the lifestyle they lead. Before anyone goes on about 'better to have skills and never need them etc..' Do you really think you're likely to need the ability to severely disable 3 ninjas in a dark alleyway if 1. You never walk down dark alleyways in your own or at all or 2. You can easily avoid these situations or 3. These situations are unlikely in your area

Many of you will be at risk from break ins but a lot of that can be deterred by making your house a hard target. Increasing your security habits etc. Most break ins will be about theft rather than murder or rape, though. In the case of the latter, you'd really have to present yourself as an enticing victim to a potential perp, though. The average hairy assed, gun toting man is probably not that.

It's an interesting subject. Definitely worth researching, even if you're a liberal pacifist and hate thinking about violence, crime or weapons. You're responsible for yourself and your loved ones after all. The world doesn't work the way you think it should, it works the way it does.

Regardless if someone breaks into your house - if you wound them, you are the guilty one and the other one not only gets away with it, but also receives damage coverage from YOU

This has happened but is not necessarily true. The people who perpetuate this rumour are usually people who don't understand what self defense is and what it isn't. It isn't dealing out punishment or justice. It's getting away from harm.

There was a notorious case many years ago in England where 2 intruders broke into a farm house. The farmer disturbed them and as they were running away he shot at them. He hit the youngest one in the back and killed him. The farmer was jailed.

There was public outcry and many hailed the farmer a hero. People used the example of his jailing as the definite 'Criminals have more rights than us'.

Considering the laws of self defense can you guys tell me why you think the farmer got jailed ?

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This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Nov 23 2014, 11:55 AM

[Cosmin Lupu]

This is a very important consideration that I think everyone should be making in their lives: Risk assessment.

We all tend to get suckered in by the 'defend yourself' fear mongering that is perpetuated by martial arts, self defense classes and the like. Look at the rise of Krav Maga 'Israeli Commando fighting techniques'.

Completely ignoring the fact that a set of skills designed to be used by soldiers in a war zone, not civilians, is being touted as a way to defend themselves. There's a big difference between dealing violence, and defending oneself. If you're wilfully engaging in trading blows with somebody, that's a fight. Once you cross the line between doing what's necessary to prevent harm to yourself, you're doing more than is necessary.. you're trying to punish the perp who dared target you.

Usain Bolt is probably better prepared for self defense than most martial artists.. because he'd run away faster than anyone else. Most martial artists are being taught to fight and deal damage, not defend themselves.

Why am I talking about MA and SD ? Because I believe it's applicable to most people and risk assessment. If you wrote a list of your daily activities, the locations you visit, your habits, the area in which you live.. you'd soon be able to have an idea of the types of crime that you are most likely to encounter in your life. This is the crucial bit. Violence is linked to crime. Any violence that isn't is either domestic or egoistic in nature, ie. the typical bar room 'what you looking at ?' scenario that is usually avoidable with some common sense.

Where I live, the most I would probably encounter is to witness someone littering, some teenagers out late at night talking loudly.. maybe some things get stolen from farms in the area. But that's about it. Risk of random murder, assault, rape is virtually nil. Why ? The area I live in presents no practical targets or opportunities for any criminal. None at all. It makes no sense for it to occur there.

That's a quick skim of the subject but in reality, most people have the mindset of acquiring skills that they will never need in the lifestyle they lead. Before anyone goes on about 'better to have skills and never need them etc..' Do you really think you're likely to need the ability to severely disable 3 ninjas in a dark alleyway if 1. You never walk down dark alleyways in your own or at all or 2. You can easily avoid these situations or 3. These situations are unlikely in your area

Many of you will be at risk from break ins but a lot of that can be deterred by making your house a hard target. Increasing your security habits etc. Most break ins will be about theft rather than murder or rape, though. In the case of the latter, you'd really have to present yourself as an enticing victim to a potential perp, though. The average hairy assed, gun toting man is probably not that.

It's an interesting subject. Definitely worth researching, even if you're a liberal pacifist and hate thinking about violence, crime or weapons. You're responsible for yourself and your loved ones after all. The world doesn't work the way you think it should, it works the way it does.





This has happened but is not necessarily true. The people who perpetuate this rumour are usually people who don't understand what self defense is and what it isn't. It isn't dealing out punishment or justice. It's getting away from harm.

There was a notorious case many years ago in England where 2 intruders broke into a farm house. The farmer disturbed them and as they were running away he shot at them. He hit the youngest one in the back and killed him. The farmer was jailed.

There was public outcry and many hailed the farmer a hero. People used the example of his jailing as the definite 'Criminals have more rights than us'.

Considering the laws of self defense can you guys tell me why you think the farmer got jailed ?

I thnk he got jailed because he shot that guy as he was running I am thinking more of a situation in which you are literally exposed to danger in the form of a guy that is armed and threatening you or your loved ones. There was a case here in which that has happened and there's a law that says that you are considered guilty if the blade of your knife is 10 centimeters longer than your attacker's blade

That's RIDICULOUS - who will measure blades in such a case?????

I'm all for being able to fend for yourself - but that's it, not trying to hurt others deliberately. There's a thin line maybe, but I've witnessed many situations - in time - in which a guy and a gal peacefully walking on the street were mugged by bad guys, trying to pick on the gal or on the guy if he wore glasses or looked skinnier - I would go berzerk in such a situation. Indeed, it all depends on where you live All of this would be almost nothing for a guy living in Syria, correct?

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[Ben Higgins]

There was a case here in which that has happened and there's a law that says that you are considered guilty if the blade of your knife is 10 centimeters longer than your attacker's blade

That's RIDICULOUS - who will measure blades in such a case?????

Yeah totally, man. It's easy to talk about this stuff but in the heat of the moment stuff happens.. and you don't have time to run through the moralities and legalities whilst thinking of the best strategy to deal with the situation.

That's why we have to arm ourselves with as much knowledge before we ever find ourselves in a crappy situation like that but yes, it's still up in the air and anything can happen.

Avoidance really is our best guarantee (or the closest we can get to a guarantee). People who get targeted should analyse how and why; do they regularly go out on the town ? Are they regularly within close distance of intoxicated members of the public ? Do they frequently go to 'high risk' areas that are prime targets for harassment, muggings, theft ? Do they park in well lit areas near to their destination ? Do they park in dark, isolated areas ? Are they always aware of their surroundings ? Do they alter their route to avoid any potential dangers, crowds of people, drunks, thugs ?

I've known so many people who go out, get drunk and wonder why they seem to attract trouble. Lack of awareness leads to a lot of situations that, to the victim, seemed to 'come out of nowhere'.

And then sometimes, stuff really is just luck of the draw and totally unavoidable.

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[jstcrsn]

. The average hairy assed, gun toting man is probably not that.
The world doesn't work the way you think it should, it works the way it does.

great line


this is the same in the US if you are not being threatened ,you have to let them run and I have no problem with this.
It is only allowable here to defend yourself and if you don't do what you can to avoid, is were it gets sticky.

I have been lucky enough to have married a very beautiful woman who gets followed in her car and even from ailse to aisle in this a fore mentioned Walmart.Now she carries a 9 shoot forty caliber hand gun. Even in that ,I told her she should have told somebody in the store.

I believe ,like you said,avoid confrontation at all costs. I had a nephew who was cut off in traffic, so he cut-off the guy back . The guy followed him to a gas station and grabbed a wrench out of his truck. Now in my opinion he could have avoided this altogether by letting it go,but when he became the aggressor by cuting the guy off he could have wound up in jail too.story goes , he flashed his piece to the guys girlfriend , who quickly grabbed the wrench and told him and they left.This , to me , was stupid (Although it ended up with no one getting hurt), but cause of his actions he could have screwed up the rest of his life. If the other guy had a gun, it would have just been ugly

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Nov 23 2014, 01:35 PM

[Ben Higgins]

I believe ,like you said,avoid confrontation at all costs. I had a nephew who was cut off in traffic, so he cut-off the guy back . The guy followed him to a gas station and grabbed a wrench out of his truck. Now in my opinion he could have avoided this altogether by letting it go,but when he became the aggressor by cuting the guy off he could have wound up in jail too.story goes , he flashed his piece to the guys girlfriend , who quickly grabbed the wrench and told him and they left.This , to me , was stupid (Although it ended up with no one getting hurt), but cause of his actions he could have screwed up the rest of his life. If the other guy had a gun, it would have just been ugly

Yes this is a great example. Often it's our actions that escalate an annoying or inconvenient situation into a very bad situation instead.

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