Approach To Double Tracking, Re-amping, Recording? |
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Oct 13 2020, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 12 2020, 11:57 PM)  Doubling guitars is a great trick to make things sound bigger. "Stacking" guitars I've found to be far less effective. However, your milage may vary. It certainly can't hurt to try it. You could always record two stacked guitar tracks and then decide during the mix if you want to use the stacked parts or just use the primary recordings from Guitar 1 and Guitar 2. Make sense? I actually thought you were talking about quad tracking originally. Two left, two right and then blend them. Folks often do this and blend two harder left right, and then blend the two remaining a bit less hard left right. This can result is a very wide stereo field for guitars. if you use the same performances layered on top of one another, it drastically minimizes the "doubling" effect. You can use it to stack a plugin track on top of an amped track, as you are mentioning, but as they are the same performance, it does very little to make the guitars sound "bigger" and can result in more phase cancellation as it's the exact same performance. So "stacking" identical performances is often less advantageous than just using two separtely recorded tracks and panning them a bit off center. EDIT: I checked one of the links you mentioned and they do say that if you choose to combine( E.G. Stack) tracks recorded at the same time, you may need to nudge one out of time alignment. I agree with this. If you don't you can get serious cancellation issues. However, by nudging it out, you fundamentally change how the tracks sound. Give it a shot and you'll see what they are talking about. If you choose to combine them, you may have to nudge the timing or phase invert the mic signal. I think we're misunderstanding each other. I'm not talking about cloning and nudging tracks. I know you can do that to "cheat" your way to a double tracking sound. Surely it wouldn't need to be nudged out of time when it's two different takes? The two tracks used in the mix will be two different takes. I'm always recording two different takes to use - one for left, one for right. As I understand it from basically every video I have seen tells me that a DI-track can be recorded simultaneously as a seperate track when recording an Amp-track. Only way I can see phasing issues is if we use the same takes on either side. But blending in a DI track of the same performance (left DI track, Left Amp track) I wouldn't think would cause phasing issues, at least according to the above videos. So essentially recording a DI-track simultaneously for one side is the same as recording two mic'ed up amps and blending them in - or recording a room mic and mixing that in for instance. https://theselfrecordingband.com/ditracks/ "Routing You plug your guitar into the instrument input of the DI-box and go from the balanced XLR-output directly into your microphone-preamp. From the second, unbalanced output of the DI-box, you go into your amp and capture it with a microphone. Just as you usually would. You plug the microphone into a second mic preamp and there you go: You can record a DI-Track and an amp track simultaneously!" The cable from the mic goes to the audio card, and simultaneously the DI box sends the signal to the audio card too. This gives several possibilities for later use - either as blending in on one side or for a re-amping possibility. So once again I'm NOT going to be using the same take on both left and right, those will be seperate takes. Here's another article: https://usashop.jzmic.com/blogs/blog/why-gu...s-are-important This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Oct 13 2020, 07:03 AM |
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Oct 14 2020, 02:50 AM
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I think I understand your plan for the stacking bit. At least I think so? It's to have more control over the tone once you put it through a plugin and mix it together with one of the original performances, right?. I wouldn't say wait on it, as you can keep moving forward using just a guitar plugged in to your interface and later one put it through the amp using your DI box. As for a DI/AMP stack being the same as two rigs in one room with two mics, it's not quite the same. The easiest way to explain it would be to have you put two amps in a room and put a mic on each , record two tracks and play around with it a bit, and then compare that to a AMP/DI stack. Two mics in the same room pick up both amps. The amp/di stack won't do that. They tend to behave differently in the real world even though they seem like the same idea on paper. I did this same experiment back in the day.
I do agree with the idea that you should ALWAYS RECORD A DI no matter what. Even if you don't plan on using it. It's always a good idea to have a clean DI with no distortion/fx of any kind. You may need it later. You may notice some noise on the amp track that you didn't hear at first, you may decide you don't like the amp track once you start mixing. Etc. There are a million reasons to have a clean DI. The good news is that you don't need a DI box to get one. You can just record a separate clean track directly to your audio interface. No need for a di box for that  You can add BIAS to it during recording so that you can get a vibe of how it's going to sound with gain on it. You can always turn the plugin off and it's not written to the file. The original clean track is always there. BTW, Two takes never needs nudging. Only clone takes benefit from a nudge Sometimes it makes things worse on a clone track. It sounds like you have a plan in place and the only thing left to do is to actually try it. Just make a few short tests once you get your di box back.[ quote name='Caelumamittendum' date='Oct 13 2020, 01:39 AM' post='781055'] I think we're misunderstanding each other. I'm not talking about cloning and nudging tracks. I know you can do that to "cheat" your way to a double tracking sound. Surely it wouldn't need to be nudged out of time when it's two different takes? The two tracks used in the mix will be two ... Only way I can see phasing issues is if we use the same takes on either side. But blending in a DI track of the same performance (left DI track, Left Amp track) I wouldn't think would cause phasing issues, at least according to the above videos. So essentially recording a DI-track simultaneously for one side is the same as recording two mic'ed up amps and blending them in - or recording a room mic and mixing that in for instance. https://theselfrecordingband.com/ditracks/ "Routing You plug your guitar into the instrument input of the DI-box and go from the balanced XLR-output directly into your microphone-preamp. From the second, unbalanced output of the DI-box, you go into your amp and capture it with a microphone. Just as you usually would. You plug the microphone into a second mic preamp and there you go: You can record a DI-Track and an amp track simultaneously!" The cable from the mic goes to the audio card, and simultaneously the DI box sends the signal to the audio card too. This gives several possibilities for later use - either as blending in on one side or for a re-amping possibility. So once again I'm NOT going to be using the same take on both left and right, those will be seperate takes. Here's another article: https://usashop.jzmic.com/blogs/blog/why-gu...s-are-important [/quote] This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 14 2020, 03:18 AM |
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