Wide Blues Vibrato, Sore Index Finger Options

[guitarman001]

Denes, I joined to watch your Blues vibrato video. My index finger tends to get sore using this wide vibrato. Is this normal at first?

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[Ben Higgins]

Hey there, Denes isn't active at GMC anymore so not sure if he sees the forum updates but I'll try and help if I can.

For the wide, sideways vibrato you use a combination of your entire forearm from the elbow to the wrist, the wrist itself and your hand. The finger is just the point of contact to the string, but the vibrato motion itself comes from anchoring your thumb onto the neck and using it as a fulcrum to pivot your wrist back and forth in a sideways motion. If we look even closer it's not really a sideways motion but a semi circular motion. If you took your thumb off the neck and tried it, it would feel alien as there's no control. The thumb anchoring onto the neck allows you to drive power through the guitar neck and pivot your hand.

The finger does have to have a degree of strength to maintain contact onto the string.. this is where the little finger muscles and callouses come in.. but the actual strength of motion includes the entire forearm and wrist. A bit like a screwdriver.. the metal point isn't where the motion comes from.. it's just the point of contact.. the energy is coming from twisting the handle.

I hope that all makes some sense

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[guitarman001]

That was very introspective and detailed Ben. This is the kind of explanation I needed. Let me digest this for a while, lol.

The thing is: I use the part of my hand between my index and thumb as the fulcrum point and pull my thumb off the back to do wide vibrato, much like Philip Sayce does, but not as wide as his. Using my thumb as the pivot point is a new one, but I have observed these two approaches when it comes to wide vibrato.

Hey there, Denes isn't active at GMC anymore so not sure if he sees the forum updates but I'll try and help if I can.

For the wide, sideways vibrato you use a combination of your entire forearm from the elbow to the wrist, the wrist itself and your hand. The finger is just the point of contact to the string, but the vibrato motion itself comes from anchoring your thumb onto the neck and using it as a fulcrum to pivot your wrist back and forth in a sideways motion. If we look even closer it's not really a sideways motion but a semi circular motion. If you took your thumb off the neck and tried it, it would feel alien as there's no control. The thumb anchoring onto the neck allows you to drive power through the guitar neck and pivot your hand.

The finger does have to have a degree of strength to maintain contact onto the string.. this is where the little finger muscles and callouses come in.. but the actual strength of motion includes the entire forearm and wrist. A bit like a screwdriver.. the metal point isn't where the motion comes from.. it's just the point of contact.. the energy is coming from twisting the handle.

I hope that all makes some sense

You are at GuitarMasterClass.net

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[Ben Higgins]

That was very introspective and detailed Ben. This is the kind of explanation I needed. Let me digest this for a while, lol.

The thing is: I use the part of my hand between my index and thumb as the fulcrum point and pull my thumb off the back to do wide vibrato, much like Philip Sayce does, but not as wide as his. Using my thumb as the pivot point is a new one, but I have observed these two approaches when it comes to wide vibrato.

I actually had to go get my guitar and check this ! You're right in that it is the part between the thumb and index finger that moves against the back of the neck. I tried with with my thumb off the neck and that works too. The thumb is touching the top edge of the neck which allows you to put plenty of pressure through your arm and wrist but yes, it is the semi circle are between thumb and finger that moves against the back of the neck

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[guitarman001]

Just so you know where I'm at as a player, I added a link to an mp3 of me playing.

Stevie jam with vintage TS808







Another question: Is the pressure on the tip of the index finger or right below closer to the padded part of the index?

Another important question: Should I be using the downward force of my wrist or my forearm?

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This post has been edited by guitarman001: Dec 5 2011, 12:14 PM

[Ben Higgins]

Just so you know where I'm at as a player, I added a link to an mp3 of me playing.

Stevie jam with vintage TS808







Another question: Is the pressure on the tip of the index finger or right below closer to the padded part of the index?

Another important question: Should I be using the downward force of my wrist or my forearm?

Wow, thats some sexy playing. You certainly know your way around the blues !!

Ok, don't use the very tip of your index finger or you will find that you arch your knuckle joint up higher and then you have almost no power over the string at all. For me, it's the side of the finger. Where we angle our hand sideways, our finger should touch the string with the inside edge closest to the 2nd finger. It may seem weird but that is how people get the wide vibrato

For the strength and motion, imagine that your forearm and wrsit is being pulled down and away from you. As you're looking down at your arm and hand, imagine that the outer edge (pinky side) of your fretting hand is moving down (as you pull on the string) and outwards towards the headstock.

The great thing about working on vibrato is you can treat it as a series of bends (which is all it is, really.. a series of bends, sped up) so practice bending the string up to a whole tone. It will hurt your finger at first. After a while, practice bending up a whole tone, then release back down to the original pitch then repeat. So what you're doing is slowly perfroming the exact motion that you would be doing when you're performing vibrato. Eventually try doing it with whole tone and a half bends.. however these are generally only workable as you climb higher up the neck and the string tension becomes less.

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[guitarman001]

This is very well detailed, I appreciate your time Ben. I'm going to consider all you have pointed out. Maybe a future wide vibrato video in detai like thisl would be a nice addition to your website.

Wow, thats some sexy playing. You certainly know your way around the blues !!

Ok, don't use the very tip of your index finger or you will find that you arch your knuckle joint up higher and then you have almost no power over the string at all. For me, it's the side of the finger. Where we angle our hand sideways, our finger should touch the string with the inside edge closest to the 2nd finger. It may seem weird but that is how people get the wide vibrato

For the strength and motion, imagine that your forearm and wrsit is being pulled down and away from you. As you're looking down at your arm and hand, imagine that the outer edge (pinky side) of your fretting hand is moving down (as you pull on the string) and outwards towards the headstock.

The great thing about working on vibrato is you can treat it as a series of bends (which is all it is, really.. a series of bends, sped up) so practice bending the string up to a whole tone. It will hurt your finger at first. After a while, practice bending up a whole tone, then release back down to the original pitch then repeat. So what you're doing is slowly perfroming the exact motion that you would be doing when you're performing vibrato. Eventually try doing it with whole tone and a half bends.. however these are generally only workable as you climb higher up the neck and the string tension becomes less.

I think this particular wide vibrato with the index finger started from Hendrix. He would also use 9 guage strings and sometimes he was tuned down a half or even whole step, so it was mush easier. How Stevie performed this with 13 gauge strings or heavier is beyond me, lol.

It's possible that he was taking the BB King Butterfly vibrato and using it on the lower strings. What's your opinion on this?

This is very well detailed, I appreciate your time Ben. I'm going to consider all you have pointed out. Maybe a future wide vibrato video in detai like thisl would be a nice addition to your website.

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[guitarman001]

Clarification: It's possible that "Jimi Hendrix" was taking the BB King butterfly vibrato approach and using it on the G string. What's your opinion on this?

This is very well detailed, I appreciate your time Ben. I'm going to consider all you have pointed out. Maybe a future wide vibrato video in detai like thisl would be a nice addition to your website.





I think this particular wide vibrato with the index finger started from Hendrix. He would also use 9 guage strings and sometimes he was tuned down a half or even whole step, so it was mush easier. How Stevie performed this with 13 gauge strings or heavier is beyond me, lol.

It's possible that he was taking the BB King Butterfly vibrato and using it on the lower strings. What's your opinion on this?

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[Ben Higgins]

Clarification: It's possible that "Jimi Hendrix" was taking the BB King butterfly vibrato approach and using it on the G string. What's your opinion on this?

I would definitely agree and say that it's a very Hendrix type vibrato... quite possibly he was influenced by the BB King finger motion but made it wider and heavier

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[guitarman001]

Observation made tonight: Using the Pentatonic without your pinky. The angle of your left hand when your using your middle and ring for the bends makes it much easier to use this kind of wide vibrato. I'm thinking this may play a big role. What do you guys think??

I would definitely agree and say that it's a very Hendrix type vibrato... quite possibly he was influenced by the BB King finger motion but made it wider and heavier

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[Ben Higgins]

Observation made tonight: Using the Pentatonic without your pinky. The angle of your left hand when your using your middle and ring for the bends makes it much easier to use this kind of wide vibrato. I'm thinking this may play a big role. What do you guys think??

Yes, you definitely need a left hand angle in order get that type of vibrato, otherwise the tendency is to just use the strength of the finger. I still use my pinky a lot for any scales, including pentatonic, but I make sure I can go from whatever I'm playing to a nice, offset angle

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