Right Hand Speed Picking Technique Developement Options

[sumitnxt]

Hi Kris,

I need some mentoring in developing / correcting my right hand tecnique for speed picking.

First let me give you the context.
please watch this small clip from someone's cover of master of puppets solo
right hand technique demo in master of puppets cover clip
The tablature for this portion is here

In the video you can see there are two types of right hand picking techniques that she is using. the first part where she
uses her wrists movements. and second part where she keeps her wrist frozen straight and the movement is done with the forearm.

the technique in first part is how i usually play. i.e i alway use my wrist movements to alternate pick.
Now I am not sure, but I believe the technique in later part is used to generate fast speed when not changing strings frequently.

I want to learn this second technique. because i have been working on this lesson darius alternate picking lesson and have been struggling with high speed 16th notes picking in the lesson.

I think learning this new technique will help me pick faster.

Can you train me to pick like that because I have been playing in a certain way for so long that learning to play this way seems difficult on my own.

thanks,
sumit

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This post has been edited by sumitnxt: Feb 21 2023, 05:41 AM

[Kristofer Dahl]

Hey Sumit,

Great to hear from you - and this is a really cool request!

You have made all the correct observations here, this guitarist uses two different types of picking. One that is highly controlled but not very fast. The other one is the exact opposite, and it's called tremolo picking.

I the first video here I give a brief explanation of it:
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/search/tremolo/

In order for you to get working on this right away, I would like to ask you to record a video where you play on one string only. When you do so, try to lock your whole forearm so that neither wrist nor thumb joint is moving.

So to clarify: your picking movement should be generated by your elbow (and a little bit of shoulder). Your wrist should be totally stiff.

When doing this, you might also want to experiment with your pick crossing angle - to achieve as effortless picking as possible.

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[sumitnxt]

Thanks for taking my request.

Here is a quick video i have recorded.
I have zero experience with picking this way. it feels really strange while i am playing like this.
I am so much focussed on the right hand movements that I cannot do any left hand fret changes at the moment.
Let me know if this video shows what you need to see to help me or should I record another video ?

Hey Sumit,

Great to hear from you - and this is a really cool request!

You have made all the correct observations here, this guitarist uses two different types of picking. One that is highly controlled but not very fast. The other one is the exact opposite, and it's called tremolo picking.

I the first video here I give a brief explanation of it:
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/search/tremolo/

In order for you to get working on this right away, I would like to ask you to record a video where you play on one string only. When you do so, try to lock your whole forearm so that neither wrist nor thumb joint is moving.

So to clarify: your picking movement should be generated by your elbow (and a little bit of shoulder). Your wrist should be totally stiff.

When doing this, you might also want to experiment with your pick crossing angle - to achieve as effortless picking as possible.

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[Kristofer Dahl]

EXCELLENT!

Let's analyse your playing here.

You start out playing slowly using your wrist - then somewhere around 00:11 you start using the tremolo picking technique. Here you totally lock your wrist.

This is an excellent start because it shows you grasp the actual movement involved, and you have proven to yourself you are capable of performing it.

What we need now, is for you to start gaining control of the tremolo technique. This means you should try to do the same thing - but at a slow tempo.

I realise this is probably what you are trying to do around 00:20. However since your pick angle does not allow you to 'cut through', you get stuck and feel inclined to start using your wrist again.

So a key element here is to experiment with your pick angle. If you use a somewhat sharp pick (like a jazz 3) and apply this kind of (exaggerated) pick angle - you should cut through strings like butter. Also, try to just use the tip of your pick.



Let me know how it works out!

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[Kristofer Dahl]

Here I have made some clarifications via video for you:

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[sumitnxt]

Hi Kirstofer , thanks for this really. The tips in this video are very helpful.
I am practicing and it appears i am making progress.
soon I post another video asking for more feedback.

However I do have a doubt.
This is from your quote regarding tremolo picking

I the first video here I give a brief explanation of it:
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/search/tremolo/

you are mentioning that the art of alternate picking is controlled picking and developing speed with controlled picking.
whereas tremolo picking is only about speed.

So here is my doubt.
My doubt is that even tremolo picking requires control .
My thinking is that when left hand is making fret changes like in this video i shared before
clip from master of puppets cover

if the player did not had control while tremolo picking she would have not be able to pick the exact number of times each note
has to be picked while her left hand is making the fret changes. and perhaps if a note is played a few extra times that would
make the solo choppy.

the reason I am asking for this clarification is because this would effect my practice strategy for tremolo picking.
I am concerned that if i practice tremolo picking with developing speed in mind without developing control , will i be able to play that master of puppets part , when i have developed the speed ?

Here I have made some clarifications via video for you:

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[Kristofer Dahl]

You are absolutely correct, a more accurate description would be " tremolo picking is mostly about speed, and does not require as much control as fast alternate picking".

Let me know if it makes more sense?

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[sumitnxt]

Yes, thanks for clarifying that.

So after some practice I am getting better at contorl part of tremolo picking in the sense that sync with left hand is getting better. My plan is to increase speed gradually by not loosing control.

so here I am trying tremolo picking to a metronome running at 100bpm. the excercise involves triplet picking which is slower and 16th note picking (faster). As you will see in the video I was struggling a bit while switching from faster picking to slower picking. I am hoping the control with be better with more practice and then I will increase speed by 5 bpm. does that sound like a good plan ? Please watch the video and give me your feedback so that we can accomplish this the right way and at the right speed.

You are absolutely correct, a more accurate description would be " tremolo picking is mostly about speed, and does not require as much control as fast alternate picking".

Let me know if it makes more sense?

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This post has been edited by sumitnxt: Feb 25 2023, 05:58 PM

[Kristofer Dahl]

Very cool Sumit,

This is a definite improvement and some of it sounds really cool.

The main issue here, which you commented on as well, is that your slow tremolo picking is not really tremolo picking ( you move your wrist quite a bit).

So you are not giving yourself any practice time at the slow speeds, instead you plunge directly into tremolo picking high speed.

So what you need to do is discipline yourself to truly use a microscopic picking motion at slow speeds as well. Teach your body what tremolo picking is, at a tempo that is manageable!

Also, I get the feeling you are throwing in some economy picking when switching between strings. That is also totally impossible to do in high speed tremolo picking (just imagine controlling yourself to the point that you can do two downstrokes in a row at high speed).

Now get me right, what you are doing here is not bad practice, because you have decent control at slow tempos (and that itself can be difficult) - but you are not practicing tremolo picking at these slow speeds.

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[sumitnxt]

Hi Kris, I haven't been able to touch the guitar for the last two days. was busy with something else.
Looks like tomorrow I will continue to practice again.

I have a small doubt again. I am beginning to feel that perhaps I should not play tremolo picking at really slow speeds and continue
with wrist picking action at slower speeds. I feel the aggressive action of the tremolo picking works best at faster speeds ?

Do you think I should be spending time improving tremolo picking skill at slower tempos as well ?

thanks,

sumit

Very cool Sumit,

This is a definite improvement and some of it sounds really cool.

The main issue here, which you commented on as well, is that your slow tremolo picking is not really tremolo picking ( you move your wrist quite a bit).

So you are not giving yourself any practice time at the slow speeds, instead you plunge directly into tremolo picking high speed.

So what you need to do is discipline yourself to truly use a microscopic picking motion at slow speeds as well. Teach your body what tremolo picking is, at a tempo that is manageable!

Also, I get the feeling you are throwing in some economy picking when switching between strings. That is also totally impossible to do in high speed tremolo picking (just imagine controlling yourself to the point that you can do two downstrokes in a row at high speed).

Now get me right, what you are doing here is not bad practice, because you have decent control at slow tempos (and that itself can be difficult) - but you are not practicing tremolo picking at these slow speeds.

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[Kristofer Dahl]

Well, there is a chance that the insights you have reached so far are enough for you to use high speed tremolo picking. With time it will settle down even though you won't have full control of it (and again, 'not having full control' is pretty much what defines tremolo picking).

The practicing I am suggestion will be far more useful than "just" for tremolo picking - though it will help you gain more control of that as well.

If you practice "tremolo" picking at a controlled, slow speed - you are also practicing highly controlled speedpicking 😎👌

So guitarists like Paul Gilbert have no problem with tremolo picking, however guitarists like Kirk Hammet have many years of practicing ahead before they can perform controlled speedpicking (even though Kirk is fully capable of tremolo picking). Hopefully it makes sense.

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[sumitnxt]

Yes I think I am beginning to understand.
if you could provide some link like Paul gilberts video that demonstrates the high precision fast picking you mentioned so that I can appreciate what you mean even more.

Meanwhile, Here is my practice update. this time I tried to go for feel of tremolo picking against precision.
While performing this lick I am aware of timing issues and even my hand still feels un used to while playing.

Well, there is a chance that the insights you have reached so far are enough for you to use high speed tremolo picking. With time it will settle down even though you won't have full control of it (and again, 'not having full control' is pretty much what defines tremolo picking).

The practicing I am suggestion will be far more useful than "just" for tremolo picking - though it will help you gain more control of that as well.

If you practice "tremolo" picking at a controlled, slow speed - you are also practicing highly controlled speedpicking 😎👌

So guitarists like Paul Gilbert have no problem with tremolo picking, however guitarists like Kirk Hammet have many years of practicing ahead before they can perform controlled speedpicking (even though Kirk is fully capable of tremolo picking). Hopefully it makes sense.

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[Kristofer Dahl]

Cool, as mentioned I think this is sounding better and better!

The issue here is that you are not in control of string crossing, so whenever there is tricky string crossing happening - we can hear a slight gap or interruption. There is no way you can fix this without getting into more advanced speed picking - this is why the only tremolo picking that can sound decent is done on one string only.

Unfortunately there is no quick way to master speedpicking - instead I would recommend the following lessons which will deep dive into the advice I have given you regarding slow, controlled practicing:

1 - https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Lead-B...sing/?part=main

2 - https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Speed-...ding/?part=main

3 - https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Altern...sics/?part=main

And here is some Paul Gilbert Goodness 😎

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[sumitnxt]

( there might be some bug . I lost this post while editing it. the whole post blanked after submitting, so writing again )


Hi Kris,

I am certainly interested in improving speed picking at a deeper level as you mentioned. can i request to work some more on tremolo
picking before moving on to other speed picking techniques . I am requesting this because I feel some overall improvement
in my playing since i have beend developing arm movements due to practicing tremolo picking.
I feel it will help me get better at shredding somehow.

Can you guide my progress as i practice these tremolo excercises. these don't involve string crossing movements.


I have found these 3 excercises

excercise 1

sounds like this
download from dropbox

excercise 2

sounds like this
download from dropbox

excercise 3

sounds like this
download from dropbox


Edit After Practicing Excercise 1
So I have been practicing the excercise 1 above and here is my take for feedback.


thanks,
sumit

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This post has been edited by sumitnxt: Mar 9 2023, 08:40 AM

[Kristofer Dahl]

Great examples Sumit - here I break things down to clarify controlled picking vs tremolo and give you some examples:

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[sumitnxt]

Hi Kris,
Your Video explanation regarding controlled picking and 3 notes per string limitations of tremolo picking makes a lot of sense.
I am working on the ideas given by you at my own pace and will keep you posted on the same.

Meanwhile here is the next update of practicing tremolo picking excercise 1. this time i have tried to push myself to a tempo of
150 bpm.



Am I on the right track ?

Great examples Sumit - here I break things down to clarify controlled picking vs tremolo and give you some examples:

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[Kristofer Dahl]

Cool Sumit,

Looking at this from a strict "tremolo picking" perspective I think it's ok.

But as I have mentioned, there is major arm movement involved here and this is not a sustainable way to practice. I would advise you as soon as possible get rid of any visible arm movement, and please take my warning seriously to not practice while you are tensed for any sustained period of time.

Also there is 'unevenness' in the beginning and end of your playing here, which is to be expected when you push speed. This is generally a "no no" since there is a risk you make these mistakes part of your style, though as mentioned tremolo picking is not really a controlled technique and I guess this is to be expected.

I have seen you have posted a great video here (and already got some great feedback). This is much more in line with what I would recommend you practice.

Keep it up mate 👊

( there might be some bug . I lost this post while editing it. the whole post blanked after submitting, so writing again )

Ouch! Was there some kind of security / browser check in between (right before you lost it?)

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