Approach To Double Tracking, Re-amping, Recording? |
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Approach To Double Tracking, Re-amping, Recording? |
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Oct 10 2020, 09:25 AM |
So while I've been recording my upcoming album I've suffered some setbacks, learned a thing or two and so on. I had 7 tracks out of 10 done more or less, but I now want to re-record some parts with new knowledge.
1. I've learned that it can be beneficial to be able to re-amp, but I wasn't recording a DI-signal, as I didn't have a DI-box. I've now bought a DI-box and had also bought a re-amp box (which I returned as it was noisy as hell, probably as it was a very cheap one). On the other hand some people say re-amping is actually not THAT ideal compared to just getting the sound right from the start. Some people say that the amp is an extension of the player and that you react differently to and thus play differently on different amps. I have been recording directly from a mic'ed up Laney IronHeart. What do you guys reckon? 2. I am of course double tracking guitars, but on the first iteration of the album, that is the 7 songs I had already recorded, I had double tracked using the exact same settings on my Laney IronHeart and only slightly tweaked EQ to get a different sound on each side. I'm wondering if it would be worth having more drastic differences on the amp before recording the second guitar track? I keep reading different suggestions. In relation to the 2nd question above here's a track from the album: https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/06-trapped-in-ice Do you think it would benefit from having more distinct guitar sounds on either side? I think that might create a wider stereo sound/effect? This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Oct 10 2020, 10:02 AM |
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Oct 10 2020, 04:29 PM |
Hi Cael! We've been talking a bit about this at the mentoring program but here are some thoughts on these specific questions.
1. It's true that we play differently if the amp settings are modified, so it's always better to have the right settings. But sometimes this is not possible and we don't find the right tone, or maybe we record over a raw mix and then, once you listen to the processed bass and drums, you notice that you would like to use different amp settings. Re-amp gives you the possibility of fixing this.. you need to think on it as a back up. It's always smoother to record with the final tone, but it's not always possible, and recording a direct line can prevent you of having to record the whole thing again. 2. If you are recording "twin" guitars, I would use different settings, just a bit of EQ difference, and nothing else. Even if you record with the exact settings, you can then do this tweak in the mix. -------------------- My lessons
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Oct 10 2020, 05:08 PM |
Re-amping is a pretty normal technique at this point in recording history.
With double tracking, I personally think that the best way to make it 'bigger' is to use a different guitar for the double. Ideally a humbucker guitar and single coil guitar. Even with the same amp and EQ settings, two different guitars will fill up the spectrum more than the same guitar even with EQ tweaks. Your track sounds good but listening with headphones, so much of the sonic information is hard left and right. I personally would like to hear more stuff in the center. This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 10 2020, 05:10 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Oct 10 2020, 06:08 PM |
Thanks, Ken! I might try with different guitars, though I only have 2 guitars these days, and both Prestiges, though with different pick ups. And thanks for listening! Different pickups, even if they're both humbuckers will still probably work better for your purposes. Do you have any overdrive/distortion pedals? Another good trick is to double with the amp set clean (or cleaner) and use the OD pedal for a different kind of distortion. Like if your main track is scooped, set the pedal for a more mid-range type of tone. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Oct 10 2020, 07:53 PM |
It may be wise to invest in one of the cheap Tube Screamer variants specifically for this purpose.
Instant EQ shift. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Oct 10 2020, 08:27 PM |
The Mooer "Green Mile" is their TS pedal. And I think it's a good clone.
*Pure boost is really just a 'boost'. Any of the clones will be fine. Digitech "Bad Monkey" Biyang "ODX8" Musiwewe "Light Green Overdrive" (possibly the cheapest on your side of the Atlantic). Joyo "JF01 Vintage OD" In lieu of the pedal, switch guitars, bump up the mids on your amp and pull down the bass and treble. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Oct 12 2020, 10:44 PM |
I think we are on the same page now You don't have to do both tracks at the same time. As a matter of fact, it's best if you don't. You should re record the rythm track. Otherwise, "doubling" isn't really doubling. If it's the same performance, the "doubling" trick won't work. Record one rhythm track using one guitar as a DI directly to your interface/daw. You can then manipulate it at will, at any time. next, grab your second guitar (using the two guitar method per ken) and record your actual amp. If you don't have any pedals and no reamp box, just try to get a good tone. It's that simple. The EQ/Screamer technique can still be applied to the dry track you recorded directly to the daw. Using a plugin screamer, as the first thing in your fx chain Then put bias as the second thing. That way it's being high passed before it ever hits bias. This will tighten up the bass. It's what the screamer does in a typical signal chain.. Now then. You have two rythm tracks. One amped, one done in software. You can now blend these together in your mix. Given the gear at hand, this seems like a practical option I was going to use my DI box (which sends the signal to my amp and also to my interface at the same time), to have a DI track as well as an Amp-track mic'ed up and send to my interface. Then do this for left and right. This gives me 2 DI-tracks (left, right) and 2 amp tracks (left, right), but with the same performance for each pair of DI+amp. If I record a DI track by itself for LEFT, then record the amp for LEFT, then do the same for the right side, I would essentially be quad tracking with 4 different performances. With the DI box I can double track, but keep the performance the same with the DI track as with the Amp track. That's what I have understood a DI box can used for according to those people I have talked to? (I.e. Step 1 and 2 here: https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/how-to-us...ecording-guitar Or here: https://www.practical-music-production.com/di-box/ ) That way I have a "safe" DI track with the original performance, which can be used to re-amp, but also have a track with initial amp settings I have chosen. I'm pretty sure it's gonna work. My DI box has a "through" output for sending to the amp, while also sending to the audio interface. I understand the approach you are mentioning, but I would like to have an Amp track for both left and right, but perhaps with different EQ or settings on the amp. My amp just feels more "alive" than any plugins I have used, though plugins definitely have their benefits. This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Oct 12 2020, 10:48 PM |
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Oct 12 2020, 10:57 PM |
Doubling guitars is a great trick to make things sound bigger. "Stacking" guitars I've found to be far less effective. However, your milage may vary. It certainly can't hurt to try it. You could always record two stacked guitar tracks and then decide during the mix if you want to use the stacked parts or just use the primary recordings from Guitar 1 and Guitar 2. Make sense?
I actually thought you were talking about quad tracking originally. Two left, two right and then blend them. Folks often do this and blend two harder left right, and then blend the two remaining a bit less hard left right. This can result is a very wide stereo field for guitars. if you use the same performances layered on top of one another, it drastically minimizes the "doubling" effect. You can use it to stack a plugin track on top of an amped track, as you are mentioning, but as they are the same performance, it does very little to make the guitars sound "bigger" and can result in more phase cancellation as it's the exact same performance. So "stacking" identical performances is often less advantageous than just using two separtely recorded tracks and panning them a bit off center. EDIT: I checked one of the links you mentioned and they do say that if you choose to combine( E.G. Stack) tracks recorded at the same time, you may need to nudge one out of time alignment. I agree with this. If you don't you can get serious cancellation issues. However, by nudging it out, you fundamentally change how the tracks sound. Give it a shot and you'll see what they are talking about. If you choose to combine them, you may have to nudge the timing or phase invert the mic signal. I was going to use my DI box (which sends the signal to my amp and also to my interface at the same time), to have a DI track as well as an Amp-track mic'ed up and send to my interface. Then do this for left and right. This gives me 2 DI-tracks (left, right) and 2 amp tracks (left, right), but with the same performance for each pair of DI+amp. If I record a DI track by itself for LEFT, then record the amp for LEFT, then do the same for the right side, I would essentially be quad tracking with 4 different performances. With the DI box I can double track, but keep the performance the same with the DI track as with the Amp track. That's what I have understood a DI box can used for according to those people I have talked to? (I.e. Step 1 and 2 here: https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/how-to-us...ecording-guitar Or here: https://www.practical-music-production.com/di-box/ )
That way I have a "safe" DI track with the original performance, which can be used to re-amp, but also have a track with initial amp settings I have chosen. I'm pretty sure it's gonna work. My DI box has a "through" output for sending to the amp, while also sending to the audio interface. I understand the approach you are mentioning, but I would like to have an Amp track for both left and right, but perhaps with different EQ or settings on the amp. My amp just feels more "alive" than any plugins I have used, though plugins definitely have their benefits. This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 12 2020, 11:08 PM |
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