Does Technique Limit Expression?, what does everybody think? Options

[lcsdds]

What do you guys think about this? I know of a few artists that seem limited when it comes to certain techniques and it seems that they are still able to express themselves quite well. There are quite a few instructors on this board who seem to have limitless technical ablilities and it seems like they use it to really enhance their playing. What do you guys for instance think of the following players and their technical abilities:

Joe Satriani- Probably my favorite instrumentalist to listen to but I have never heard him do any sort of alternate picking or sweep picked arpeggios like most of us think of when we think of those techniques. Satch is probably the reason my legato/tapping is so far ahead of my alternate picking, LOL!!

Alan Holdsworth- Not super familiar with his playing but from what I have seen/heard it is all legato. Does anybody more familiar with his playing know if he uses alternate picking at all?

Bret Garsed- Same as Alan Holdsworth, never heard/seen any alternate picking runs in his playing.

Frank Gambale- I remember Emir saying that Frank is a true master of his instrument. Here is a guy that only economy picks from what I can gather from his playing. He has a good legato technique as well. One of the biggest knocks on economy picking that I have seen is that you have to "plan" out your licks more than if you alternate pick. This "technical deficiency" doesn't seem to have stopped his progress though.

All of these players don't seem to have problems expressing themselves but they all seem to be "technically limited" in some respects. What do you guys think?

Monte

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[FrankW]

What do you guys think about this? I know of a few artists that seem limited when it comes to certain techniques and it seems that they are still able to express themselves quite well. There are quite a few instructors on this board who seem to have limitless technical ablilities and it seems like they use it to really enhance their playing. What do you guys for instance think of the following players and their technical abilities:

Joe Satriani- Probably my favorite instrumentalist to listen to but I have never heard him do any sort of alternate picking or sweep picked arpeggios like most of us think of when we think of those techniques. Satch is probably the reason my legato/tapping is so far ahead of my alternate picking, LOL!!

Alan Holdsworth- Not super familiar with his playing but from what I have seen/heard it is all legato. Does anybody more familiar with his playing know if he uses alternate picking at all?

Bret Garsed- Same as Alan Holdsworth, never heard/seen any alternate picking runs in his playing.

Frank Gambale- I remember Emir saying that Frank is a true master of his instrument. Here is a guy that only economy picks from what I can gather from his playing. He has a good legato technique as well. One of the biggest knocks on economy picking that I have seen is that you have to "plan" out your licks more than if you alternate pick. This "technical deficiency" doesn't seem to have stopped his progress though.

All of these players don't seem to have problems expressing themselves but they all seem to be "technically limited" in some respects. What do you guys think?

Monte

Interesting. I think what these players have done is maximize their particular playing styles within the confines of their limitations.
Satch may not be able to speed pick like Petrucci, but his lick vocabulary is virtually limitless.

Holdsworth has monster legato, and an extremely advanced playing style, like no other.

Brett can and does not only speed pick, but hybrid picks many of his melodic passages. It's the only way to play some of his cool lines.

And, Gambale is the sweep master. I do think that his economy picking style is so developed that he can play that way without concious effort.

The most important element of each of these players is their ability to be extremely musical, rather than just technically adept. That's what makes these guys stand out.

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[lcsdds]

Interesting. I think what these players have done is maximize their particular playing styles within the confines of their limitations.
Satch may not be able to speed pick like Petrucci, but his lick vocabulary is virtually limitless.

Holdsworth has monster legato, and an extremely advanced playing style, like no other.

Brett can and does not only speed pick, but hybrid picks many of his melodic passages. It's the only way to play some of his cool lines.

And, Gambale is the sweep master. I do think that his economy picking style is so developed that he can play that way without concious effort.

The most important element of each of these players is their ability to be extremely musical, rather than just technically adept. That's what makes these guys stand out.

Frank,
I've never heard Brett speedpick. Could you point me to some of his music where he does this as I am not really familiar with his music other than what is on youtube He does have some really cool hybid passages from what I have seen.

They are not technically limited, they are masters of the instrument. They can play whatever they want flawlessly, and this enables them to forget about the technique and just express themselves on the instrument.

I agree with you Ivan that they are Masters of their instruments. Do yo think that Holdsworth just never hears alternate picked lines in his head or why do you think he never uses this technique? I guess it is just a conscious decision.

To me Frank Gambale's amazing economy picking technique requires as much development as alternate, maybe even more to make it sound like he does.

Satriani, all legato, but has some legato runs that require excellent left hand technique.

Allan Holdsworth, this guy's playing is unmatchable he seems to have 6 fingers, total instrument domination, you are probably right he is mostly legato, but my god, what a technique.

Garsed, all legato, but incredible phrasing, lots of expression in his playing.

I like to practice all techniques, but I am better at one more than the others. I guess you are concerned that you should master all to have different sounds and have more dynamics, the players mentioned above to me have lots of expression in their playing and I don't believe that not being alternate pickers limits them

Jose,
Do you think Frank's decision to use economy picking limits his vocabulary at all? Meaning that he has to "plan" his licks/lines a little more than if he was just using alternate picking?

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[Ivan Milenkovic]

I agree with you Ivan that they are Masters of their instruments. Do yo think that Holdsworth just never hears alternate picked lines in his head or why do you think he never uses this technique? I guess it is just a conscious decision.

Well I certainly don't know what he hears in his head mate, let alone what alternate picked lines sound for him anyway. I don't even know if I ever think about alternate picking runs in that way. Technique is just something that doesn't cross my mind a lot when playing. The reason Allan doesn't uses alternate is unknown to me, it could be anything really. Maybe he can alternate pick but he doesn't or maybe he didn't practiced and played with this technique a lot, so he doesn't use it while playing, you know what I mean?
About a conscious decision, my guess is that he doesn't really think what techniques he will use, he just use whatever he finds most suitable to expresses himself.

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This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Dec 1 2008, 02:12 AM

[Muris Varajic]

That's pretty interesting list of players you pulled out Monte!
All of them are top class players but somehow devoted
to only one or maybe 2 techniques in general.
But I don't think it's limitation at all,
those guys have their own sound signatures
and techniques they use most of the time
have a very important roll in that.
Now,if you're looking for technique versatile players
then those guys you mentioned are surely not one of those
but on the other hand you can recognize them very easily
cause techniques they use give them that special
and unique sound.

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