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> Improvisation Course I, Modules 1 & 2
fzalfa
post Sep 3 2015, 06:17 PM
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Edit:

i have trashed the previous file, because:

- too much notes, no breath....
- too much effect (flanger....)
- not realy listenable

if you want to take a look.... https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/tesdt-impro

so this is another take, maybe better, maybe worst.... i have spend too much time today around this one.

i always do false notes.

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/test-impro-2

Laurent

This post has been edited by fzalfa: Sep 3 2015, 09:35 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 4 2015, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (Tom51 @ Sep 3 2015, 11:42 AM) *
Maybe I am too simple...lets say I move shape #2 (from your first link - the barre C chord) from C (on A string) to G (on E String) I will get G major . And if I go 2 frets higher to A (still E string)I will get A major (A B C# D E F# G#) and so on...


Okay...got it now. You can move these shapes around as long as they are between the same strings that belong the chord shape.

Wow ...that is easy only 5 shapes to know and all major scales are available ... Is that so?




Hi Tom, the first thing that you've said isn't right. You can't take a shape and move the root to other string. If the chord starts on 5th string, you can move it on the same string and get the different chords and scales depending on the root. Please let me know if this is totally clear.



QUOTE (fzalfa @ Sep 3 2015, 02:17 PM) *
Edit:

i have trashed the previous file, because:

- too much notes, no breath....
- too much effect (flanger....)
- not realy listenable

if you want to take a look.... https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/tesdt-impro

so this is another take, maybe better, maybe worst.... i have spend too much time today around this one.

i always do false notes.

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/test-impro-2

Laurent




Hi Laurent, great to find your take here.

I can say that your improvisation still has too many notes. You seem to be exploring the scale instead of saying something. As a training exercise, this is ok, because it lets you get familiar with the different notes from the scale. However, if this is the idea, I would play much slower to really be able to feel how each note connects with the backing. Try to avoid 16th notes, work with quarter and 8th notes, and use silences, let your ear breath. There is no hurry.

I particularly like the moment at 1:04, where you slow down and seem to be searching for a nice melody, try more of that. This kind of melodies, combined with silences is the way to go.



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Tom51
post Sep 4 2015, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 4 2015, 01:56 PM) *
Hi Tom, the first thing that you've said isn't right. You can't take a shape and move the root to other string. If the chord starts on 5th string, you can move it on the same string and get the different chords and scales depending on the root. Please let me know if this is totally clear.


Yes its totally clear as I mixed A and E shape - I can only move them one the string of the root note.

Thanks Gab
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 4 2015, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Tom51 @ Sep 4 2015, 11:05 AM) *
Yes its totally clear as I mixed A and E shape - I can only move them one the string of the root note.

Thanks Gab



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fzalfa
post Sep 4 2015, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE
I can say that your improvisation still has too many notes. You seem to be exploring the scale instead of saying something. As a training exercise, this is ok, because it lets you get familiar with the different notes from the scale. However, if this is the idea, I would play much slower to really be able to feel how each note connects with the backing. Try to avoid 16th notes, work with quarter and 8th notes, and use silences, let your ear breath. There is no hurry.

I particularly like the moment at 1:04, where you slow down and seem to be searching for a nice melody, try more of that. This kind of melodies, combined with silences is the way to go.


Hi

Yes i have put a lots of note, a way for try a lots of and xplore.
i'll do less in the future smile.gif

less notes.... of course

Laurent

16th are because i do some work with Todd !!!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 4 2015, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (fzalfa @ Sep 4 2015, 02:21 PM) *
Hi

Yes i have put a lots of note, a way for try a lots of and xplore.
i'll do less in the future smile.gif

less notes.... of course

Laurent

16th are because i do some work with Todd !!!



hehehe so let the 16th notes for him! biggrin.gif


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n3m57
post Sep 4 2015, 09:30 PM
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It's very hard to make something ...
I mean, cooking a real melody .
I think the key is to create a simple melody, just a few notes, and after evolve it.

I'd try to share some take Sunday.




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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 4 2015, 11:56 PM
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QUOTE (n3m57 @ Sep 4 2015, 05:30 PM) *
It's very hard to make something ...
I mean, cooking a real melody .
I think the key is to create a simple melody, just a few notes, and after evolve it.

I'd try to share some take Sunday.



Yes, start with 1 note per chord, and then continue embellishing this idea. It's like constructing a building.


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Tom51
post Sep 6 2015, 10:11 AM
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Not sure If we should share one take by the deadline only or if we should also post something in between so that you can check if we "are getting out of control" biggrin.gif

Nevertheless as this is my first improvisation ever - here is my first try. As you recommended I started with a very few notes only and tried to get to a simple melody that I repeat and change a little. Is that the way to go?

https://soundcloud.com/user619267345/improassign1-10


One think about theory: diatonic sequences again. I understood your explanations but still do not get the full picture. Whereas its no problem to get the five chord shapes and arpeggios in my hands I do not really know what to do with these sequences? Just learn and include in my playing?

Thanks Tom

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n3m57
post Sep 7 2015, 08:58 AM
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I think have the main melody,
I've try to add some bend, pinch harmonic ...

https://soundcloud.com/mathieu-nguyen-6/g-major-impro

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fzalfa
post Sep 7 2015, 11:44 AM
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https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/test-impro-4

some ideas.... i play slowly

Laurent

This post has been edited by fzalfa: Sep 7 2015, 11:45 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 7 2015, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (Tom51 @ Sep 6 2015, 06:11 AM) *
Not sure If we should share one take by the deadline only or if we should also post something in between so that you can check if we "are getting out of control" biggrin.gif

Nevertheless as this is my first improvisation ever - here is my first try. As you recommended I started with a very few notes only and tried to get to a simple melody that I repeat and change a little. Is that the way to go?

https://soundcloud.com/user619267345/improassign1-10


One think about theory: diatonic sequences again. I understood your explanations but still do not get the full picture. Whereas its no problem to get the five chord shapes and arpeggios in my hands I do not really know what to do with these sequences? Just learn and include in my playing?

Thanks Tom



Hi Tom! The idea is that you post takes every time you want or need it. It's helpful to use this thread to let students monitor everybody's progress and get inspiration from other student's takes.

Your work on this one is on the right track. This is exactly the type of work that you need to do to get familiar with the scale and its connection with the backing's chords. The idea is that you use this method to explore the whole neck. Try on parts of the scale that you are not familiar, go out of the comfort zone as an exercise.

Besides this, working on other two elements are required:

- musicality/phrasing: try to make your melodic lines more interesting. Based on this first take I think that the rhythm of your phrases could be more interesting. It becomes a bit repetitive after some measures. Listen to music and pay attention to how lead melodies (done with guitars, vocals or any other lead instrument) rhythm is worked, how it evolves.

- expression techniques: vibrato, bending, dynamics

QUOTE (Tom51 @ Sep 6 2015, 06:11 AM) *
One think about theory: diatonic sequences again. I understood your explanations but still do not get the full picture. Whereas its no problem to get the five chord shapes and arpeggios in my hands I do not really know what to do with these sequences? Just learn and include in my playing?

Thanks Tom



I suggest working on diatonic sequences to get familiar with the scale both technically and also regarding the sound of the different notes. The more sequences you practice the more tools you'll have to improvise and the more trained will be your ear. By now, playing the sequences up and down over the progression is enough. At the end of this course, your ear will be trained and you'll be able to identify when guitarists combine their phrases with sequences. Players like Yngwie Malmsteen, Gilbert, Kotzen, Zakk Wylde, do this all the time.




QUOTE (n3m57 @ Sep 7 2015, 04:58 AM) *
I think have the main melody,
I've try to add some bend, pinch harmonic ...

https://soundcloud.com/mathieu-nguyen-6/g-major-impro



Nice work mate! There are cool things happening on this one. I like the fact that your phases are clear and defined. The note choices are also cool on this solo. The only thing that I note is that you tend to repeat the phrases many times and it ends up sounding like an arrangement instead of a solo. It's not bad, but I'd like to hear you playing lines that evolve, and tell a story. Would you like to experiment with it?



QUOTE (fzalfa @ Sep 7 2015, 07:44 AM) *
https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/test-impro-4

some ideas.... i play slowly

Laurent



Tasty playing Laurent! I like this new take much more! Your melodies sound good and your overall solo connects much better with the backing track. This is the way to go. Keep on experimenting on this direction.

Remember to also focus on expression techniques... vibrato, dynamics, bending, harmonics, etc....



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fzalfa
post Sep 7 2015, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE
Remember to also focus on expression techniques... vibrato, dynamics, bending, harmonics, etc....


I'm glad to know that this take you seem nice

yes, i have found a melodic skeleton, so now, i must do the cosmetics pass smile.gif

Laurent


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 7 2015, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (fzalfa @ Sep 7 2015, 12:55 PM) *
I'm glad to know that this take you seem nice

yes, i have found a melodic skeleton, so now, i must do the cosmetics pass smile.gif

Laurent



haha exactly, that's the next step. biggrin.gif


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n3m57
post Sep 8 2015, 10:54 AM
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Ok, thank you Gab smile.gif
I'd try to tell something next time.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 8 2015, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (n3m57 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:54 AM) *
Ok, thank you Gab smile.gif
I'd try to tell something next time.



Here is some inspiration... check this video... Don't you feel that Vai's guitar is talking? smile.gif



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n3m57
post Sep 9 2015, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 8 2015, 12:30 PM) *
Here is some inspiration... check this video... Don't you feel that Vai's guitar is talking? smile.gif



Yeah Gab smile.gif
I understand what you mean.
I need a lot of time (not 30 minutes per day, but 2 hours ) to create lines that evolve, it's like start literally from zero.
I should try with Guitar Pro, add a track in the backing track tab and let my imagination lead me with my guitar in my hands and the scale display on the screen.

I guess, there is some "tips" or "tools" to know improvisation, like a form of musical logic, something to be respected ...

Sorry mates, I'm not really comfortable with english language, I hope what I mean is clear.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 9 2015, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (n3m57 @ Sep 9 2015, 04:59 AM) *
Yeah Gab smile.gif
I understand what you mean.
I need a lot of time (not 30 minutes per day, but 2 hours ) to create lines that evolve, it's like start literally from zero.
I should try with Guitar Pro, add a track in the backing track tab and let my imagination lead me with my guitar in my hands and the scale display on the screen.

I guess, there is some "tips" or "tools" to know improvisation, like a form of musical logic, something to be respected ...

Sorry mates, I'm not really comfortable with english language, I hope what I mean is clear.




It's not that complex mate and it's not exactly the main goal of this first week of the course, however it's good to have it in mind while practicing. During this first part the idea is to get familiar with this scale and arpeggio shapes, start building melodies and analyze them. We will work on specific exercises to help you with the direction of your phrases.



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fzalfa
post Sep 11 2015, 09:55 AM
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Hello

this is a take from this morning, always some errors, false bend (outch....)but seem more rich than previous ones

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/impro-5

Laurent


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n3m57
post Sep 11 2015, 11:21 AM
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Nice fzalfa, I need your guitar skills smile.gif

I have zero guitar theory and I would understand something, tell me if I right please :

G major scale = G - A - B - C - D -E - F# octave G - A - B - C ...
So : 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 octave 8 - 9 - 10- 11 ...

Arpeggios = Root - 3 - 5
Is it always +2 ?

Backing track = Root- 5 - 4 - 5 ( G - D - C - D)

I can play these shapes of arpeggios to follow the BT :
G -> 1 - 3 - 5
D -> 5 -7 -9
C -> 4 - 6 - 8
D -> 5 - 7 - 9


I can make some inversion too, like :

G -> 3 - 5 - 1
D -> 9 - 7 - 5
C -> 8 - 4 - 6

This post has been edited by n3m57: Sep 11 2015, 11:22 AM
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