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JVM
post Nov 29 2007, 04:52 AM
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Hey guys. I really like my setup right now, fender 1x12 40 watt hot rod deluxe tube amp, plus a good stomp box and a couple effects. I think I get a pretty good sound, and I'm not looking to upgrade right now. BUT I would like to start thinking about my next amp, because when I'm ready for it I want to be able to choose the right one.

So here are some basic requirements:

Preferably 50 tube watts or under head and one 4x12 or 4x10 cab.

Price for the head under $1400 (new).

So far I really really like what I see from Engl. I also really like the sound of elmwoods (though I don't know know how much they go for - specifically the bonneville head), of course marshalls.

Some things I'm considering:

Marshall vintage modern
Marshall JCM 2000 DST

Elmwood bonneville 50

Engl fireball
Engl Screamer
Engl Thunder

Each is 50 watts except the fireball which is 60.


I really want this to be a wonderful amp. As I said I'd like to keep it 50 watts or under, I can't see myself ever needing 100w of power.

The most important things I have to be able to get are really nice saturated blues tones ala gary more or something similar, a nice clean channel and some heavy riffing capability along with good classic rock crunch. I like to play a little of everything so it versatility is a pretty big consideration.

Someone help me find my dream amp tongue.gif


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Twibeard
post Nov 29 2007, 08:09 AM
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My bad /MickeM sad.gif
biggrin.gif No worries MickeM ... I can almost redo it.

I would consider raising the budget a bit and get a Bogner Amp. Link here: http://www.bogneramplification.com/

The UBERSCHALL, the German word for "Super Sonic", is really Amageddon in a box!


The ECSTASY allows the mortal to travel the roads as deep as our souls! Not bad for a box!


This post has been edited by Twibeard: Nov 29 2007, 09:11 AM


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MickeM
post Nov 29 2007, 08:34 AM
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I'm sure you can pull two tubes out of the Marshall JVM if you got for that one. That's the amp I fancy the most in Marshalls series of amps.
The Vintage modern is supposed to be really responsive to what you're playing.

ENGL's, I was really looking at them before I settled for what I have today. I was loking for something Dream theater like at reasonable cost and ENGL sure has the punch, perfect for hi gain and clean playing but I don't care a lot for the crunch. It's special in a way and doesn't really fit in to my world where I compare to Marshall.

The Elmwood amps run for around 20kSEK (say 2150 Euro). If I remember well the Bonneville is 19kSEK while the Modena was 22kSEK

You're in the UK right? So bang for the buck would in your case then be a british amp, I've compared Marshallas in UK with Marshalls in Germany and the prices in UK is to prefer. Same with Laney, the VH100R is really cheap in the UK compared to rest of the world.


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JVM
post Nov 29 2007, 10:57 PM
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U.S. actually. tongue.gif

I wasn't aware you could pull out tubes and have it quieter (I assume that's what you meant, if that was even a serious suggestion tongue.gif).

If you can do that, i love the sound of H&K too, but they're a bit expensive and I want something new.

So, let me get this straight: You like the clean and high gain on the engls, but not the rock and roll crunch? Of course, all three of those are very important to me so if any one of them sounds just "average" then I'd like to keep looking. But I still plan on trying them anyhow.

[edit] The JVM is a bit over budget, but I might consider raising my budget if I have to. It would be cool if JVM had a JVM though tongue.gif

How much do the bogners go for? There's a dealer over in cary which is pretty close to me, maybe I could go try them out as well. Sounds pretty good. I have a feeling it's going to be overpriced though tongue.gif

This post has been edited by JVM: Nov 29 2007, 11:02 PM


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bmh1109
post Nov 29 2007, 11:45 PM
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im gonna throw in my obligitory vote for a marshall TSL60 since i just got one, new if you shop around you can probly find one in your price range, and for what its worth, i got my used in like new condition for $600. The crunch channel is great on it to, goes from nearly clean to what id consider high gain and everywhere in between. your not too far away if your even planning on coming through hickory lemme know and you can try mine out.

This post has been edited by bmh1109: Nov 30 2007, 04:09 AM


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JVM
post Nov 29 2007, 11:49 PM
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I do go up to asheville pretty often biggrin.gif


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JVM
post Nov 29 2007, 11:59 PM
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One thing about the TSL60, after doing a few look ups it seems like the crunch and lead channels share the same EQ, is that a problem for you? I could see that getting in the way of having an awesome riffing tone then a really bland lead tone, or vice versa. Otherwise it looks cool smile.gif


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MickeM
post Nov 30 2007, 12:13 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 29 2007, 10:57 PM) *
U.S. actually. tongue.gif

I wasn't aware you could pull out tubes and have it quieter (I assume that's what you meant, if that was even a serious suggestion tongue.gif).

Ok, US, I guess prices for brit amp are rather ok anyway, right?
Sorry I wasn't clear but yes, if you have a 100W amp with four EL34's pulling the right two will divide it down to 50W. As soon as warranty runs out on my H&K I'll be pulling out a couple tubes to get my head down to 50W. And I checked with the support exactly which two to pull out just to make sure. It's important.

Marshall is actually pulling themselves together, I think for a while their tube amp program wasn't all that promising but now there's DSL, TSL, JVM, JCM, Vintage modern - quite a bit to choose from.


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bmh1109
post Nov 30 2007, 12:14 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 29 2007, 05:59 PM) *
One thing about the TSL60, after doing a few look ups it seems like the crunch and lead channels share the same EQ, is that a problem for you? I could see that getting in the way of having an awesome riffing tone then a really bland lead tone, or vice versa. Otherwise it looks cool smile.gif



the global eq isn't much of an issue really. the lead channel gain and volume are seperate from the crunch channel, so when switching its sounds good as long as you have a good ballpark eq setting for both channels. It would be nice for each channel to have seperate eq's but i don't really see it as being a big deal.


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MickeM
post Nov 30 2007, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 29 2007, 11:59 PM) *
One thing about the TSL60, after doing a few look ups it seems like the crunch and lead channels share the same EQ, is that a problem for you? I could see that getting in the way of having an awesome riffing tone then a really bland lead tone, or vice versa. Otherwise it looks cool smile.gif

Now the question wasn't aimed at me but as I see it there never were a problem for me with shared EQ. If you have a responsive guitar you can adjust between clean and distorted with the volume pot. Thus a single channel amp would work fine. What I mean with that is staying in the same channel and adjusting with the volume knob doesn't call for separate EQ's. Just kick an EQ pedal for soloing (to raise mids f.ex) and you got everything covered.

But of course, separate EQ's could be more useful than shared, but I never saw it as a problem myself.

If that is a possibility for you there's a single channel amp with a gain switch (so two channels really if you like) and possibility to switch from EL34's into 6L6 for a change of sound. This Laney is not that expensive either. There's also a 50W version.
So this laney with EL34's is a Marshall, with 6L6's it's an ENGL. Sort of biggrin.gif

It's rather bright so my guess is that it would do excellent with the Marshall cabinet 1960 that's got GT12-75 speakers... they are set to scoop the mids and I belive that would help the treble on the Laney. Maybe! unsure.gif
The GH50 head is "only" 740Euro in Europe or £400 in the UK, that's approx 580 Euro blink.gif Great price!


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Nov 30 2007, 12:33 AM
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I don`t know, TSL is maybe just to little-for-heavy amp. Marshall generaly doesen`t have that much of a clean channel. I think if you have a tube Fender you will be satisfied with something that has a more pure clean channel, maybe some fender head, of Hughes&Ketner. Try those, and see if it fits you. Marshall is too dirty for your needs. Maybe if you get a 200W head you can get a "deacent" (for the money it is just deacent really) cleans. Other that that it will tend to go on crunch.


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JVM
post Nov 30 2007, 01:55 AM
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I do love my fender cleans. The distortion just isn't nearly heavy enough.

@MickeM I like the looks of those laneys. Gilbert plays one of those no? Probably not the same head though eh.

I don't think I'd like a cab voiced for scooped mids, I love my mids tongue.gif I'd rather get something kind of neutral so that I can adjust myself without having any real kind of optimal head-cab EQ.

Thanks for the help everyone so far smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 30 2007, 02:34 AM
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I'm a little worried about pulling tubes out to reduce power ...

If you have parallel output stages, they are mathched to the impedance of your output transformer. Pulling out tubes changes this relationship and you end up with an impedance mismatch. Probably not disastrous, but not ideal either ...


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post Nov 30 2007, 02:38 AM
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I'm really in the same situation. I love my JCM800 amp as it is an original and just amazing but I may get a Framus Cobra which have an awesome heavy sound. I really want the H&K Alex Lifeson Amp but I think I'd need to safe for the rest of my life smile.gif


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JVM
post Nov 30 2007, 02:41 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 29 2007, 01:34 PM) *
I'm a little worried about pulling tubes out to reduce power ...

If you have parallel output stages, they are mathched to the impedance of your output transformer. Pulling out tubes changes this relationship and you end up with an impedance mismatch. Probably not disastrous, but not ideal either ...


I must say I'm slightly skeptical as well tongue.gif I still think I would rather have a 50w or below that I just leave mostly stock, perhaps replace the tubes or whatever.

Hey andrew, wanna build me one? I'll be your first customer wink.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 30 2007, 02:45 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 29 2007, 08:41 PM) *
I must say I'm slightly skeptical as well tongue.gif I still think I would rather have a 50w or below that I just leave mostly stock, perhaps replace the tubes or whatever.

Hey andrew, wanna build me one? I'll be your first customer wink.gif


Cool ! Let me get my first build done then we can talk turkey smile.gif

(need to sort out my garage now we are in the new house, shoudl be able to finish uip my first amp in a week or two, will post clips!)


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post Nov 30 2007, 03:07 AM
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*whispers* kkkrraannnkkk*.. actually on second thought.. might be a little hefty at 100watts smile.gif


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JVM
post Nov 30 2007, 04:02 AM
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QUOTE (Smikey2006 @ Nov 29 2007, 02:07 PM) *
*whispers* kkkrraannnkkk*.. actually on second thought.. might be a little hefty at 100watts smile.gif


I knew you'd say that tongue.gif I remember you saying something like "I'll never leave you Krank no never!" biggrin.gif


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post Nov 30 2007, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE (Twibeard @ Nov 29 2007, 08:09 AM) *
My bad /MickeM sad.gif
biggrin.gif No worries MickeM ... I can almost redo it.

I would consider raising the budget a bit and get a Bogner Amp. Link here: http://www.bogneramplification.com/

The UBERSCHALL, the German word for "Super Sonic", is really Amageddon in a box!


The ECSTASY allows the mortal to travel the roads as deep as our souls! Not bad for a box!

I Played an uberschall....I was underwhelmed severely. The clean channel is so lacking..

Ecstasy= Awsome.

Oh yeah,

Marshall JVM...Test drove one for a week....Cant stop thinking bout it. It was really nice.

Vintage Modern...test drove one for 2 hours....Blew up....guess they built to much vintage in and not enough modern....."Write that down". Was pretty cool while it functioned....not a high gain amp.


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MickeM
post Nov 30 2007, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 30 2007, 01:55 AM) *
@MickeM I like the looks of those laneys. Gilbert plays one of those no? Probably not the same head though eh.

I don't think I'd like a cab voiced for scooped mids, I love my mids tongue.gif I'd rather get something kind of neutral so that I can adjust myself without having any real kind of optimal head-cab EQ.

Paul Gilbert played the VH100R, the GH is "one channel" from the VH100R. Gilbert switched to Vintage Modern just rescently.


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