G String Issue |
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G String Issue |
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May 31 2016, 07:21 PM |
Hmmmmm, not good, you need to know that I also told them about the state it was in when I received it otherwise it might not make sense.
Hi Phil, I have had a look at a stock guitar and found that it also has a dead spot but it is on the G string 18th fret (C#). I tuned the G down to F and found that the C# played at the 20th fret was now dead but a B played at the18th fret was ok. This shows the same behaviour as yours does, ie the dead note moves but the dead fret stays the same. This is not entirely surprising as the phenomena is largely a resonance issue so you would expect the frequency affected to remain the same. Regarding the condition of the guitar, I suspect the fingerprints were made when the guitar was checked over at the shop before sending – that’s ironic!! It’s not great and it’s good practice to have clean hands and a cloth at the ready when handling new guitars, especially black ones. I am sure they were trying to do the right thing by sending you strings and a cleaning kit, if they didn’t care they would have done nothing. As for going forward with this, since it seems like they all do it as I suspected, you have to decide if it is something you can live with. If not then you will need to take this up with the retailer in which case I will be happy to share my findings with them. I can’t say what they will be willing to offer as a solution as that will depend on their returns procedure. I am sorry it’s not better news. Best regards Nick -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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May 31 2016, 10:16 PM |
Thank you very much Scott buddy,
I'll quote that in my next email. Nice one I hope they don't say that the warranty is invalidated because it has been worked on by a luthier. Cheers:) This post has been edited by Phil66: May 31 2016, 10:19 PM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 1 2016, 08:16 PM |
OK,
I emailed the dealer, no answer yet. In the mean time I emailed PRS Europe again saying that I expected more of PRS and that,Paul Reed Smith has or had a good customer care ethic. The bloke took this as a personal attack I think so I had to re-reply and tell him that I meant the man himself not branch of his company or anyone working there. I also said I am surprised a guitar with such a bad dead spot left the factory. Anyway, his response to my email is below and I've also attached the report he mentions as I know some of you will want to read it. Basically they have all of the ammunition they need to win the argument and mitigate themselves. Hi Phil, Our customer care ethic is still very strong but unfortunately this affects all guitars from all manufacturers and no amount of customer care can resolve it. I have attached a paper by Dr Helmut Fleischer who carried out an in-depth study of the phenomena should you wish to understand it in greater depth – to sum up, the resonances in the body, neck and hardware can, at certain frequencies, have the effect of virtually cancelling out a particular note. Similarly there will be frequencies and notes where there are sweet spots, resulting in more sustain and body on certain notes. Believe me if I could fix it I would (and I’d be a very rich man!) but the laws of physics are notoriously resistant to change. Best regards Investigating_Dead_Spots_2nd_ed.__Acustica_FL___Zwi_.pdf ( 3.58MB ) Number of downloads: 4302 -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 1 2016, 08:32 PM |
Thanks for sharing, a long read but will read it later
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Jun 1 2016, 09:17 PM |
Complete fucking bullshit, is all I have to say about that.
-------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Jun 1 2016, 09:25 PM |
I have to agree with you Ken but these David and Goliath fights rarely go the way of David, even getting a solicitor involved would be pointless unless the solicitor has a lot of guitar experience.
I'm definitely going to take the guitar to the next Paul Reed Smith Clinic when he comes to Birmingham and ask the man himself what he thinks of it. It will be around a year's time but I don't care, he should know what is being churned out this side of the pond. -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 1 2016, 10:05 PM |
I can't see them changing it Ken, the law and small print will be on their side it may be physics but the thing is my issue is pretty bad, just as no wheel is truly round but BMW wouldn't sell a car with oval wheels and this issue is the sonic equivalent.
This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 2 2016, 11:42 AM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 1 2016, 10:35 PM |
I agree Scott, and I respect everyone's opinion on here, I won't be buying any more PRS guitars anytime soon.
-------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 1 2016, 11:30 PM |
OK, I emailed the dealer, no answer yet. In the mean time I emailed PRS Europe again saying that I expected more of PRS and that,Paul Reed Smith has or had a good customer care ethic. The bloke took this as a personal attack I think so I had to re-reply and tell him that I meant the man himself not branch of his company or anyone working there. I also said I am surprised a guitar with such a bad dead spot left the factory. Anyway, his response to my email is below and I've also attached the report he mentions as I know some of you will want to read it. Basically they have all of the ammunition they need to win the argument and mitigate themselves. Hi Phil, Our customer care ethic is still very strong but unfortunately this affects all guitars from all manufacturers and no amount of customer care can resolve it. I have attached a paper by Dr Helmut Fleischer who carried out an in-depth study of the phenomena should you wish to understand it in greater depth – to sum up, the resonances in the body, neck and hardware can, at certain frequencies, have the effect of virtually cancelling out a particular note. Similarly there will be frequencies and notes where there are sweet spots, resulting in more sustain and body on certain notes. Believe me if I could fix it I would (and I’d be a very rich man!) but the laws of physics are notoriously resistant to change. Best regards Investigating_Dead_Spots_2nd_ed.__Acustica_FL___Zwi_.pdf ( 3.58MB ) Number of downloads: 4302 I think there may be a misunderstanding here about the degree. The paper correctly states that some frequencies will be more resonant than others. I have a guitar that is so resonant when I play a low G that it's hard to keep the open G string from ringing noticeably. And there will also be frequencies that resonate less than average. But here's the thing: your recording shows a far more pronounced effect than anything reported in the paper (or experienced by others who have posted here). The use of the term "dead note" in the paper is probably an unfortunate choice of words, since it's referring to frequencies that have somewhat more or less sustain, not severe attenuation like you demonstrated in your recording. Nowhere in the paper does it say this phenomenon has "the effect of virtually cancelling out a particular note". In other words, I wouldn't agree the paper gives them ammunition to win the argument. -------------------- Cyber-industrial music and video animations:
https://vimeo.com/channels/thedignitymachine https://vimeo.com/channels/somewheretohide Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RodrigoSpacecraft |
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Jun 2 2016, 02:05 AM |
My response wasn't so much about the PRS replacement answer.
It was in regard to the 'Dead Spot' info/paper. I think it's it's complete B.S. Like I've said a few times - I have never come across a 'dead spot' in an electric guitar such as the one's that paper and the PRS guy referred to - "all guitars have a dead spot". Bullshit. None of my guitars have a dead spot. Even my two piece of crap Teisco Del Reys that cost less than $60.00 new with a case don't have dead spots. *I'm not really surprised at all about the PRS response regarding a new or fixed guitar. After what, 7 or 8 months(?). And I would not fight the battle for a SE model. This post has been edited by klasaine: Jun 2 2016, 02:06 AM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Jun 2 2016, 07:14 AM |
It was in regard to the 'Dead Spot' info/paper. I think it's it's complete B.S. I think there's some confusion on this point. The paper is factual and correct. However, it does not purport to prove whether sustain irregularities exist in a guitar. It may be a small effect, but they do exist. That's a given. All resonant bodies, like guitars, do. That's the very definition of resonance . Mertay is correct and shouldn't feel unlucky. The purpose of the paper is a different topic: to investigate the source of that inevitable irregularity. I think the source of the confusion is the poor choice of the term "dead spot" in the paper. That misleads you into thinking they're talking about a prominent artifact when in fact it's often quite subtle. Anyway, that paper addresses an interesting topic, but that topic is irrelevant here. The relevant issue is: does the guitar in question have excessive sustain irregularities? In other words, they've given him a paper to prove their point, but it doesn't do that at all. Personally, I'd use that fact to nail them to the wall . I kind of get the feeling people are passing that paper around, including at PRS, but nobody is reading it . -------------------- Cyber-industrial music and video animations:
https://vimeo.com/channels/thedignitymachine https://vimeo.com/channels/somewheretohide Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RodrigoSpacecraft |
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Jun 2 2016, 08:34 AM |
*I'm not really surprised at all about the PRS response regarding a new or fixed guitar. After what, 7 or 8 months(?). And I would not fight the battle for a SE model. I know Ken, I wish I'd found it earlier but due to me wanting to keep it in real good condition as there are only 180 of these, I hardly play it. Only the other day I thought to myself I might as well get some enjoyment from it rather than have it as an ornament and then I discovered the issue. I think there's some confusion on this point. The paper is factual and correct. However, it does not purport to prove whether sustain irregularities exist in a guitar. It may be a small effect, but they do exist. That's a given. All resonant bodies, like guitars, do. That's the very definition of resonance . Mertay is correct and shouldn't feel unlucky. The purpose of the paper is a different topic: to investigate the source of that inevitable irregularity. I think the source of the confusion is the poor choice of the term "dead spot" in the paper. That misleads you into thinking they're talking about a prominent artifact when in fact it's often quite subtle. Anyway, that paper addresses an interesting topic, but that topic is irrelevant here. The relevant issue is: does the guitar in question have excessive sustain irregularities? In other words, they've given him a paper to prove their point, but it doesn't do that at all. Personally, I'd use that fact to nail them to the wall . I kind of get the feeling people are passing that paper around, including at PRS, but nobody is reading it . Thanks Rammikin, Would you mind if I use some of your words in an email to them? Also, how would you word it to "nail" them? Cheers buddy This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 2 2016, 08:29 AM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 2 2016, 11:41 AM |
Here's a video I found on the tube (jump to 2.00); To finalize my comments, I hope the vibration change of blocking the bridge will help but given all the shared info the chances doesn't seem strong I wasn't surprised by the answer from PRS (though I am surprised I'm the only member here who bumped into such problem with enough guitars to say its common--my bad luck I guess ) but not satisfied either, it changed my view of their guitars and I will warn friends to check deadspots or any other problems when they ask me about them...if you want, make a video about it and we'll make it viral so more people can learn about this issue. In the video the guy noted about fender fatfinger, I held one in my hands 1-2 weeks ago and didn't feel heavy. No idea how good it could work but a custom solution feels better to me. There is a famous luthier here in Turkey who has experience with this problem, he can help making a custom headstock block (like the ones I shared previously) for you I guess if you can't find anyone in England (no idea if he works internationally but I can contact him for you+I'll handle any translation if needed). I liked the idea of using the tuner screws to hold the block thats mentioned in the video, so you can keep the guitar original with no extra holes. But if you don't want to deal with that problem any further (to me you did all you could as a customer, we all learned something from your experience) I'd say thats ok too, if its a guitar you enjoy playing forget about that problem and continue your journey as its not like you'll need that note to sustain on everything you play Thanks Mertay, I'll watch the video later. I'm not sure I want a block on the headstock though, I'd like to keep it original because of what it is, Thank you for the offer though. Cheers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jun 2 2016, 02:08 PM |
Would you mind if I use some of your words in an email to them? Also, how would you word it to "nail" them? PM sent. -------------------- Cyber-industrial music and video animations:
https://vimeo.com/channels/thedignitymachine https://vimeo.com/channels/somewheretohide Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RodrigoSpacecraft |
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