Testing A New (for Me) Practise Method. |
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Jan 28 2022, 04:27 PM
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UPDATE: In the post below I've removed a comment about the CAGED SYSTEM as it was detracting from the main point here, so don't get confused by the discussion between Todd and me
 Had a lot going on lately so not been seriously practising but, on a guitar group on FB recently there was a discussion about learning something, and the last comment one of the books left was this below, (in italics and underlined to differentiate). He was saying how he went about learning things. It took him 25 years to "discover" this and reckons he's made great gains in the last 5 so it's worth trying, even if just for a month. Obviously adapt it to suit what you're learning but, five to ten minutes on little things opens up a chance to cover more ground per practise session. The bloke's name was Jaymeson Trudgen. "One other tip I can share is how the mind learns. Practice a little and be focused on strengthening what ever topic your hacking at. Especially if your developing muscle memory - where your fingers know where to go with barely a grunt of a thought in toe head. Be repetitious - but stop pushing after 5 min or so. Any more is wasting your time. Even if your technique / memory seem to improve with 30 min or more effort in a session… your mind will not appreciate it. That night when you sleep - the head reorganizes the pathways based on the first 5 min. That’s it! So practice often, but short sessions when your getting off the ground and building technique / or training your visual maps of the fretboard. You will be amazed. It feels like you haven’t done enough - but I assure you - you have. Kinda like eating and not feeling full, but truth is your stomach is, and to continue is just empty calories. There is a double edge to this tho. If you skip a day, two tops, your efforts regress - the paths you’ve trained your head with new materials or skills hasn’t cemented in, and it will degrade. Only when it’s at a fluent level without effort and a slightest whimsical thought is all that’s needed to do complex things is where you can relax and know you can’t skip a week or more and not lose the technique you built up. Most don’t know this trick - and again - took me easily 25 years - but the last 5 I’ve been doing some amazing skill building following this method of training my mind… and learning to work with how the mind learns, not against it. It’s like shaking a snow globe…. Takes a few seconds to get all that jazz floating in circles - but takes hours to see it all settle in place. No value over shaking the globe once everything is already up and off the ground." I've been trying it the last couple of days and I have to say I think it's going to be good. I used to start with the first bar or lick of a lesson, work on that for as long as it took to get it into my fingers, not necessarily up to speed with good execution but close rhythmically with acceptable execution and moderate speed. I'd then work on that lick adding notes from the next lick and so on building the lesson up. Using this technique above, I split the lesson up into workable units, I work on each one for ten minutes, this gives me six sections to work on per hour, obviously if it's a big lesson the latter parts will have to wait. This means I'm working on more of the lesson per session and my brain is being activated without tiring of repetition. So let's see how it goes, but at the moment it does seem to be working. I've experimented with times and I find that after ten minutes progress does seem to really decline if not completely halt. I'll have to see what happens over a longer term but it does seem to be worth a try. I thought it would be good to share with you in case you're looking for something new. If you try it let us know how you get on. If you've tried it before let us know how you got on. Cheers. This post has been edited by Phil66: Feb 6 2022, 08:26 AM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE  “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 28 2022, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 28 2022, 07:46 PM)  Seems like he's saying break big things up in to chunks? I think that's a good way to go about it  Break it up in to smaller bits and then put it back together. I'm not that impressed with the "caged" idea, as it seems a bit of a gimmick, but whatever helps a player get to be a better player is a good thing imho, no matter how gimmicky it seems. Id suggest just leaning ones scales. Start with Major, minor, blues over 12 frets. Yeah, I didn't read much about the CAGED system, I just thought the "5 minutes or so...." thing was interesting. I can't actually remember his comments on the CAGED system, he wasn't the starter of the thread he was just telling folks how he started learning stuff a few years ago. This comment was an addition to his other comments and the one that I thought would be the most useful to try. He doesn't actually mention chunking, I just thought it might work with chunking so that I can fill my hour or so with chunks of five to ten minutes It certainly seems to be good at the moment, whether that's the novelty or not, I don't know yet. I just thought it was good to share it as he said he's made great progress doing things this way Cheers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 29 2022, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 29 2022, 03:31 AM) This is what I was refering to by "chunking" in his post. I'd then work on that lick adding notes from the next lick and so on building the lesson up. just building things up in "chunks" That's what I said, not the other bloke, his words is in italics, I've underlined it now to, so that it's easier to differentiate The reason I mentioned chunks is that when I start a new lesson, obviously I can't practise the whole thing for ten minutes because I don't know if, so I split as much of it up as I can, into doable little parts or chunks that I can work on for ten minutes each, obviously some lessons will have to be spread out because there is too much to fit into an hour or so. Also as you progress with a lesson or piece of music, some parts or chunks will meld into one part or chunk that you can work on for ten minutes and eventually the whole thing will be worked on for ten minutes giving you the time to work on something else in your session. QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 29 2022, 03:31 AM) But yeah, if the caged system or any system helps, the sure! I'm for anything that yields results. id still say learn the major/minor/blues over 12 frets even if it has to be broken in to chunks This actual quote wasn't part of the CAGED system advice, I maybe shouldn't have mentioned the CAGED system as it's detracting from the main statement. His statement wasn't about any system, CAGED or otherwise, it was about how the mind learns and that for most, after five minutes or so the brain has had enough of learning, personally I don't think this equates to how long you should precise something once you've learnt it, that's something different, whether it's playing guitar or juggling, once you've learnt it, you then spend longer periods practising it to hone the skills and gain the speed. I've edited out the CAGED comment and put a note to explain so folks don't get confused I'll try to find the conversation again, it's hard to find stuff on FB sometimes though ss you know. Speak soon buddy, Bootcamp video coming soon
This post has been edited by Phil66: Jan 29 2022, 06:57 AM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Feb 6 2022, 08:09 AM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Feb 5 2022, 10:00 PM) It is interesting you mention this. I am currently working on 4 lessons plus improvisation and ear training so in total it is 6 different things I work on each practice session. I dedicate between 5 and 10 minutes to each lesson every session and still think I progress fast in them. About a year ago, I only worked on one lesson and dedicated 40-50 minutes to it every practice session. Then Gab suggested to add one more lesson, meaning 2 lessons and about 20-25 minutes per lesson per practice session. Even if I only dedicated half the time to each lesson, I still thought I progressed about the same compared to when I just worked on 1 lesson. The part you mention about splitting a lesson into chunks and working on it in that way sounds interesting and efficient so I will try that out. I'm finding it works well, if you check out my last few videos, in particular, THIS one, I know from experience that spending longer than this in that same session wouldn't yield any more significant progress, in fact I think when you hit the twenty minute point, you, or at least I, seem to regress. I've always used the chunking method but I've spent far too long on the chunks, so my practise would be 30-40 minutes on one chunk of a lesson and 30-40 minutes on Todd's Bootcamp, so only two things were being worked on. I'm still organising myself with this after a month or more of heavy distraction from guitar practise but I think, at least for me, this is definitely the way forward as one can work on more things in the same time slot with the same progress per chunk, so effectively/hopefully getting the lesson to a REC pass level much more quickly. Some chunks, obviously, will require more batches of 5-10 minutes but, let's say you take 10 days to get a chunk to a decent level, that will have taken 50-100 minutes of your practise time instead of 300-400 minutes and will /should yield the same amount of progress. I do follow your progress and your doing great, keep up the good work and maybe try the 5-10 minute thing, more towards the 5 minutes than the ten. Cheers Phil -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Feb 7 2022, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Feb 7 2022, 08:41 AM) If I recall correctly from the video Phil linked to, and if I understand it correctly the first clip was the first attempt and the last clip was after 5 minutes of practicing, not after 5 minutes of break between takes. Maybe that's what HiimAlex was saying too. But that was the 5 minute "practice chunk" cut down to a quicker video with "first take" and "last take" and the in between cut out. Correct me if I'm wrong, Phil, please! And it would be interesting to see the whole 5 minute session. You are correct, that was after 5 minutes practise. I didn't record the whole 5 minutes as I didn't think Gab would want to sit through it all and also, it saves time transferring into my video editor and a uploading to YT so I did the first bit, paused the recording and then did another bit after 5 minutes. QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Feb 7 2022, 08:41 AM) But I think in terms of pure concentrated practice on a single chunk or technique it's good to not just say: "today I practice alternate picking for 3 hours in a row and tomorrow 3 hours of sweeping" or something like that. Maybe you get more results from 20 minutes of this and 20 minutes of that. Or 5 of this, that, the other and the next. But it's about finding what works best for you, and while there might be some things that work better in general, they might not work for all. Yes I agree, I know they won't work for all but it's always worth trying. Looking back, I know that after 5-10 minutes nothing improved so continuing to 30-45 minutes on one lick was futile for me. As I said above, it may take the same amount of days per lick as doing it for 30-45 minutes but only doing stuff for 5-10 frees up time to work on the other licks in the piece. Obviously as we get into the detail, more 5-10 minute chunks will be required because as you know, you get 80% complete in 20% of the total time and the last 20% takes 80% of the time, it's a bit like the pareto principle. I think doing it this way just means a lot less time is wasted and more time is released to work on other music related stuff. I'm definitely going to stick with it for the foreseeable future though. QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Feb 7 2022, 08:41 AM) I kinda think of it in terms of "law of dimishing return". Maybe that magic spot for you is 10 minutes or 5 or 20, but at some point it might be better to rest your brain, muscles and come back the next day (or later), cause you're not getting anything out of it. Maybe similar to how if you're in the gym doing 3 sets of 10 reps you can't just blast through 30 in one go. I think I spoke to you before when you was asking for gym motivation, I told you to get in and out in thirty minutes. That's what I used to do, no talking, just brutal high intensity exercise for thirty minutes, it gets the job done and your conscious brain thinks you haven't done enough so you're keen to get back in there. I think this has a similar effect and definitely keeps the brain switched on. Cheers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Feb 7 2022, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Feb 7 2022, 07:38 AM) Interesting. I definitely notice quite much progress in that video even if it was just 5 minutes between the takes. I am trying to understand from your first post why 5 minutes per chunk is more beneficial compared to 40 minute per chunk. Is it because of that it will be too much for the mind to memorize? So you divide a lesson into chunks and spend 5 minutes per chunk? Thanks, I have been following your progress too and you are doing good. I am going to try the 5 minute thing out. Sorry I missed this Alex, I divide the lesson into small chunks, a complex lick might have four chunks with only 3 or 4 notes per chunk, a more simple lick might cover 3 bars. I see how it feels when I first try it. Or if I have trouble with the middle part of a lick, that part will become the chunk. It's not so much about being too much to memorise, make the chunks small enough that you can run through it maybe 20-30 times in that 5 minutes. Maybe experiment for a week, record yourself learning a lick for twenty minutes and watch to find out where your sweet spot is, the point where you don't appear to be making gains. Let us know about your progress please. Cheers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Feb 7 2022, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 7 2022, 02:54 PM) I think breaking a lick or song down in to chunks is a great approach and its working well for you! Your most recent bootcamp vid is a great example. Been watching it and I"m very impressed. It's every string and a complicated pattern. Nice! I've always done chunking, I've just always spent too long on one chunk at a time, robbing myself of valuable time to work on the other chunks, for me it's the 5-10 minute thing that is the game changer
-------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Feb 14 2022, 04:20 AM
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I'm being a bit more fluid with this now.
Most of the time, five minutes is enough before I notice nothing is improving. If I'm noticing improvements, I carry on, BUT it never goes beyond 15 minutes. If I'm working on speeding a lick up, once I've stuck at a certain bpm for 2-3 minutes I move on to something else. When I've got the whole lesson in my fingers and I'm working on getting it up to tempo, I'll always notice one or two licks that fall apart with the increase in bpm. I isolate these, work on them for 5-10 each then play the whole thing again once or twice and move on. I'm looking for a new lesson to start on now, using this 5-10 gives me more time to work on more than one lesson. I've had a lot of distraction this weekend so not much time but I have grabbed a few ten minute sessions here and there. -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Feb 15 2022, 05:19 AM
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How about this little guy
It's an oldie but a goodie. Not bluesy, more neo classical but a great finger workout.https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...inger-work-out/ QUOTE (Phil66 @ Feb 13 2022, 11:20 PM) I'm being a bit more fluid with this now. Most of the time, five minutes is enough before I notice nothing is improving. If I'm noticing improvements, I carry on, BUT it never goes beyond 15 minutes. If I'm working on speeding a lick up, once I've stuck at a certain bpm for 2-3 minutes I move on to something else. When I've got the whole lesson in my fingers and I'm working on getting it up to tempo, I'll always notice one or two licks that fall apart with the increase in bpm. I isolate these, work on them for 5-10 each then play the whole thing again once or twice and move on. I'm looking for a new lesson to start on now, using this 5-10 gives me more time to work on more than one lesson. I've had a lot of distraction this weekend so not much time but I have grabbed a few ten minute sessions here and there. |
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