Corona Virus Spreading Out Of China Options

[AK Rich]

So here's an interesting tid bit from Italy.
In a small village in the north east, in the Veneto region where it started in Italy (close to where my wife's family all live), they have tested the entire village. 70% of the population that tested positive were completely asymptomatic.

I think that's probably good news as long as people continue to avoid contact with others. But it also means that the mortality rate estimates we have been hearing about from there are most likely too high.

Some may be getting a bit carried away with the social distancing here in the states though. It seems that the City of San Francisco has issued a shelter in place order like Fkalich suggested would happen. I think this is unenforceable similar to how mandatory evacuation orders are unenforceable in the event of a hurricane, fire or flood during a state of emergency but maybe circumstances are different enough to allow it. I am sure it will be debated. I also don't see how the police force there could possibly have the manpower to enforce an order like that and still carry out their usual duties. We will see I guess. These are largely uncharted waters I think at this level of government.

If this kind of order is legal and enforceable, it probably should have been done by the Governor so that the National Guard can be used to help enforce it and I don't think that a mayor would have that authority. If you are going to try to do it, do it right, otherwise I don't think it carries any more weight than a recommendation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/...ly-15135014.php

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 17 2020, 02:35 AM

[Todd Simpson]

The entire thing has our country by the short hairs. People are just going nuts. You can't buy sanitizer or toilet paper anywhere as it's all sold out across the entire country!!! You would think the "END IS NEAR" and that the fourth Seal of Revelation had been broken and the PALE RIDER of Death had been released and given authority to kill on fourth of the Earth's Population with "PESTILENCE" (E.G. COVID19) and that he magically took all the toilet paper with hiim

I went to my doctor today and before I could even go in the building, a guy with an N95 respiratory made me sign a sworn document stating I had not traveled or even coughed or sneezed in the last 24 hours or I would not be let in to the building.

People are going a bit nuts.

Folks, when our number really is up, it's up, hording TP for your bunghole is NOT going to save you. Let's all try to maintain our dignity shall we?

The ASYMPTOMATIC Carriers are what is causing all the "COMMUNITY TRANSMISSION" E.G. Tyhoid Mary walking around infecting people.

Stay Calm and Carry on.

Todd

I think that's probably good news as long as people continue to avoid contact with others. But it also means that the mortality

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[AK Rich]

I went to my doctor today and before I could even go in the building, a guy with an N95 respiratory made me sign a sworn document stating I had not traveled or even coughed or sneezed in the last 24 hours or I would not be let in to the building.
Todd

At least one of the area hospitals here have a screening station at every entrance. I think they are basically just taking temps and asking a few questions though.

Typhoid Mary was a sick individual in more ways than one because she KNEW she was infected at some point and continued to infect others.

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[Todd Simpson]

Very true! Typhoid Mary probably knew she was sick, but just like fast food workers of today, she was a low wage day worker and if she didn't work, her family didn't eat. So as a result, she just kept getting different jobs doing the only thing she knew how to do. She was a kitchen cook.

So we have millions of low wave laboriers today who simply can't "just stay home" because their families will starve and they will lose their dwelling place. This is a big part of the problem of community infection. Until we have plans in place to allow the lowest among us to survive without going in to work when they get sick, we are going to have a huge problem.

It's not just a problem here. It's a huge problem in Europe too.



retails workers can't "work from home" so folks at banks/fast food/grocery stores etc. could be infected and passing the illness to everyone within sneezing range.

At least one of the area hospitals here have a screening station at every entrance. I think they are basically just taking temps and asking a few questions though.

Typhoid Mary was a sick individual in more ways than one because she KNEW she was infected at some point and continued to infect others.

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 17 2020, 04:26 AM

[AK Rich]

Very true! Typhoid Mary probably knew she was sick, but just like fast food workers of today, she was a low wage day worker and if she didn't work, her family didn't eat. So as a result, she just kept getting different jobs doing the only thing she knew how to do. She was a kitchen cook.

So we have millions of low wave laboriers today who simply can't "just stay home" because their families will starve and they will lose their dwelling place. This is a big part of the problem of community infection. Until we have plans in place to allow the lowest among us to survive without going in to work when they get sick, we are going to have a huge problem.

It's not just a problem here. It's a huge problem in Europe too.



retails workers can't "work from home" so folks at banks/fast food/grocery stores etc. could be infected and passing the illness to everyone within sneezing range.

Well, that's the thing. We aren't talking about people that are sick necessarily. We are talking about people that have been ordered not to work by government and they should probably be compensated one way or another. Maybe employees can be covered under unemployment insurance but that still leaves many businesses and independent contractors that would need to be compensated. Many small businesses could be bankrupted.
I have never been a fan of bailouts and I don't believe in "too big to fail" especially when a buisiness or corporation is in trouble because of their own failings, but when government shutters a buisiness or contractor and there is no fault of their own. Maybe a bailout ,if that's what you want to call it, should be in order and it has to be immediate. People can't wait for months because of a bunch of red tape when the bills are piling up and families are hungry.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 17 2020, 06:31 PM

[jstcrsn]

Well, that's the thing. We aren't talking about people that are sick necessarily. We are talking about people that have been ordered not to work by government and they should probably be compensated one way or another. Maybe employees can be covered under unemployment insurance but that still leaves many businesses and independent contractors that would need to be compensated. Many small businesses could be bankrupted.
I have never been a fan of bailouts and I don't believe in "to big to fail" especially when a buisiness or corporation is in trouble because of their own failings, but when government shutters a buisiness or contractor and there is no fault of their own. Maybe a bailout ,if that's what you want to call it, should be in order and it has to be immediate. People can't wait for months because of a bunch of red tape when the bills are piling up and families are hungry.

I hate the idea of bailouts , but once again banks are getting billions everyday and the rule that they have to have 10 percent cash to cover customers that might want their money has been lifted..The banks got 1.5 trillion overnight and that's just one night and then lost all their worth in the market in 1 hour ..we could have paid every adult 1000 for six months for that 1 night ..and the Banks get billions every night

government printing money, giving it to the banks for free and talking about covering workers unemployment for the people

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[AK Rich]

Well, that's the thing. We aren't talking about people that are sick necessarily. We are talking about people that have been ordered not to work by government and they should probably be compensated one way or another. Maybe employees can be covered under unemployment insurance but that still leaves many businesses and independent contractors that would need to be compensated. Many small businesses could be bankrupted.
I have never been a fan of bailouts and I don't believe in "too big to fail" especially when a buisiness or corporation is in trouble because of their own failings, but when government shutters a buisiness or contractor and there is no fault of their own. Maybe a bailout ,if that's what you want to call it, should be in order and it has to be immediate. People can't wait for months because of a bunch of red tape when the bills are piling up and families are hungry.

Right after I made that last post, there was a press conference with the President and the Coronavirus Task Force where many of the concerns that I have were addressed. Plans have not been finalized but I liked many of the ideas I heard. We will see what the final decisions will be.

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Now gatherings of more than 10 people have been banned here starting tomorrow morning.

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[Todd Simpson]

I'm against bailouts for rich folks but I'm all for keeping regular working folks from going hungry and becoming homeless and such simply because they got sick cause they couldn't afford to skip work and have no paid sick leave. About a third of our country is one paycheck away from the street.

Right after I made that last post, there was a press conference with the President and the Coronavirus Task Force where many of the concerns that I have were addressed. Plans have not been finalized but I liked many of the ideas I heard. We will see what the final decisions will be.

BEN: Yeah, folks all over the world are being encouraged to simply shelter in place and stay home.

As an aside, TYR is postponing the Tour dates in the States that I was auditioning for. Tons of other bands have also cancelled or postponed tours. Even our political process is falling victim to corona. Our primary voting is taking 5 times as long they are only letting one person in at a time.

The knock on effects from this are going to have very bad impacts on our economy. I just heard projections of 20 percent unemployment as a result of the knock on effects of corona virus. Ouch.

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[AK Rich]

I'm against bailouts for rich folks but I'm all for keeping regular working folks from going hungry and becoming homeless and such simply because they got sick cause they couldn't afford to skip work and have no paid sick leave. About a third of our country is one paycheck away from the street.

I'm not sure every adult In the country would need or should get assistance. Maybe that idea is more about stimulating the economy. But if you have been forced out of work because of government action, you should definitely be compensated and a safety net for those that get sick is probably a good idea too. Heaven knows I could use some help for my own and unrelated health issues, I haven't been able to work much at all for going on 2 years, but I am not so sure that I should get help for what's going on in the country now because so far it hasn't affected me financially, at least not yet.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 18 2020, 04:56 PM

[Todd Simpson]

Because of the knock on effects of "Sheltering in place" due to corona virus, our economy is taking a massive hit. We are being told to stay home to help stop the spread which makes sense, but the result is that spending is way down, businesses are closed, people who depend on day labor are out of work as the coffee shop they used to clean has shut it's doors temporarily, for example. The stock market has wiped out a years gains in one week. We are looking at the possibility of a recession and potentially massive unemployment if the small businesses that account for about half of our economy don't end up surviving or outlasting our "shelter in place" approach caused by covid19. A one trillion dollar stimulus bill is on the table and even that is just a drop in the bucket of what has already been lost due to lack of business activity as a direct result of corona virus.

schools and businesses are being closed on a massive scale. All the small biz places that support them are drying up as a result. People are driving much less also which has reduced demand for gasoline which has reduced demand for crude oil which caused the OPEC nations to have a slap fight over prices. The sheer scale of unforseen consequences of this thing are hard to fathom. that's on the positive side assuming one doesn't get ill and or pass on the illness to a loved one with underlying condition.

Pretty Grim financial outlook from a hedge fund guy. He thinks is we end up having to ride this out for an extended period, big parts of the economy will collapse.

I'm not sure every adult In the country would need or should get assistance. Maybe that idea is more about stimulating the economy. But if you have been forced out of work because of government action, you should definitely be compensated and a safety net for those that get sick is probably a good idea too. Heaven knows I could use some help for my own and unrelated health issues, I haven't been able to work much at all for going on 2 years, but I am not so sure that I should get help for what's going on in the country now because so far it hasn't affected me financially, at least not yet.

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 18 2020, 08:15 PM

[klasaine]

If civic, state, and fed legislature tell us to shut down for the greater good, I'm fine with that ... but they also need to mandate that those who are being asked or told not to work, don't have to pay rent and at least some of their other bills during that time. And not just a , "oh, you can pay later" but a full on waiver. Or, send everybody affected 2 or 3 grand a month for as long as it lasts.

As far as bailing out the airlines - fuck them. They've been upcharging us for anything and everything over the last few years and taking tons of profit. They can kiss my ass.

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[jstcrsn]

If civic, state, and fed legislature tell us to shut down for the greater good, I'm fine with that ... but they also need to mandate that those who are being asked or told not to work, don't have to pay rent and at least some of their other bills during that time. And not just a , "oh, you can pay later" but a full on waiver. Or, send everybody affected 2 or 3 grand a month for as long as it lasts.

As far as bailing out the airlines - fuck them. They've been upcharging us for anything and everything over the last few years and taking tons of profit. They can kiss my ass.

last time they got bailed out I believe they used ( about 90 percent ) their bailout to buy back stock

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[Phil66]

Sent one of my workers home, sore throat. Fingers crossed.

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[Arpeggio]

I think that's probably good news as long as people continue to avoid contact with others. But it also means that the mortality rate estimates we have been hearing about from there are most likely too high.

Indeed. If someone has had it already and got better they won't be included in the comparison to death rate. Retrospectively the amount of people that could be, could be very high.

You should read this:

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/corona...n-we-think.html

Also Italy has the worst air pollution in Europe (it' out there if you look it up). Of course we won't be told this though!

The economic destruction from the lock-downs and hysteria will be more damaging.

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[klasaine]

last time they got bailed out I believe they used ( about 90 percent ) their bailout to buy back stock

Exactly. I'm sure every company that got a bail out last time bought back their stock.
"If" they get another one they should not be allowed to do that - ever.

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[AK Rich]

Indeed. If someone has had it already and got better they won't be included in the comparison to death rate. Retrospectively the amount of people that could be, could be very high.

You should read this:

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/corona...n-we-think.html

Also Italy has the worst air pollution in Europe (it' out there if you look it up). Of course we won't be told this though!

The economic destruction from the lock-downs and hysteria will be more damaging.

Thanks Arpeggio! Great article by a reputable doctor and instructor at Harvard Medical School. I looked him up. Everyone should read it and I will be sharing it with friends and family. I have been thinking along these lines myself and in speaking with my Oncologists PA yesterday, he is thinking along these lines as well.

Exactly. I'm sure every company that got a bail out last time bought back their stock.
"If" they get another one they should not be allowed to do that - ever.

Maybe we should buy up the stock ourselves while the price is right. Just have to be careful not to pick one that is likely to fold. 😉 I have a neighbor who has done quite well for himself. Built up a multimillion dollar company from scratch and then sold it a few years back and built a retirement home out here at the lake. Before this crisis the buisiness was worth a billion, now its at about a quarter billion. Anyway, that's what he has been doing lately, not necessarily buying airline stock but a few others although he did mention one. Seems like a good investment if you can swing it and can hang in there for a while. He is looking at about a 3 year investment timeline depending on how the markets rebound.

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[AK Rich]

If civic, state, and fed legislature tell us to shut down for the greater good, I'm fine with that ... but they also need to mandate that those who are being asked or told not to work, don't have to pay rent and at least some of their other bills during that time. And not just a , "oh, you can pay later" but a full on waiver. Or, send everybody affected 2 or 3 grand a month for as long as it lasts.

As far as bailing out the airlines - fuck them. They've been upcharging us for anything and everything over the last few years and taking tons of profit. They can kiss my ass.

A waiver for rent? What about the landlords, property owners who in many cases depend on the rent money to pay off mortgages for those rental properties and their own income? They shouldn't have to take a loss anymore than anyone else should.

I feel you about the airlines though. They seem to be getting a bit too greedy in many ways, and then cram us into their planes like sardines. Reclining seats are a bad joke, especially if you are tall like I am.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 19 2020, 10:03 PM

[klasaine]

A waiver for rent? What about the landlords, property owners who in many cases depend on the rent money to pay off mortgages for those rental properties and their own income? They shouldn't have to take a loss anymore than anyone else should.

Them too.
A moratorium on mortgage payments while there's no income.

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[Phil66]

I sent one of my workers home today, sore throat, his daughter's best friend is in hospital confirmed with Covid19. Fingers crossed he's okay and we will be too.

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