2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Shredding Sucks
DeGroot
post Apr 13 2014, 04:26 AM
Post #21


Experienced Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.359
Joined: 16-January 12
From: Chicago, Illinois
Member No.: 14.899



QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 12 2014, 09:33 PM) *
That's not a musician's musician at all. A true musician can find the sublime beauty in even the simplest but beautifully executed and felt piece of music ... even if done by a novice.

If the song calls for you to shred ... by all means, SHRED!
If not ... don't.

Play for the song.


I totally agree with this. I try to approach a solo this way. I think it is something I get better at with experience. Playing to the music instead of playing something from repetition/muscle memory.

Nothing wrong with practicing or "shredding" a lick you just learned in a solo. I think it all depends what you want to gain from it. If you end up using the same exact lick in 10 differnt songs, then I think it may be a problem. smile.gif Some of what i consider to be the most expressive guitarist can even have a tendency to shred at the right moment. Even SRV and Hendrix would shred at times. I think it is too generic to just say "shredding sucks". Though I get that the word can be interpreted in many different ways… kind of like the word "dude". smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 13 2014, 05:32 PM
Post #22


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



In simpler terms, we could refer to the right attitude as to 'serving the song/serving the music' - if it asks for something, be a kind gentleman/lady and deliver smile.gif I have a very old drummer friend from whom I have learned that - he was always telling me - 'Cosmin, stop trying to invent complicated things to play - just serve the music and it will be a lot better!' it took me 4-5 years until I finally started to understand what he actually meant smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Apr 13 2014, 06:02 PM
Post #23


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.667
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



This is 'my' aesthetic ... is the song better due to my solo or parts or approach? Or is it worse?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Apr 13 2014, 07:30 PM
Post #24


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.781
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Some great replies and a very interesting thread. Just goes to show what throwing a grenade in to a room full of fireworks can do!! smile.gif I think we are all really on the same page to be honest. I think the poster just wanted to stimulate discussion and it worked so bravo!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Apr 13 2014, 11:34 PM
Post #25


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Very interesting thread.

i must immediately say that IMO - Shredding Rocks! smile.gif
Now what I mean by that and how I feel about it? Shredding on the instrument can be perceived in many different ways. I see it as being a "virtuoso" and I suppose we could almost consider "shredding" or "shredder" as a modern term for the same thing? Lots of classical composers we know are also known to come with terms like "virtuoso", "music prodigy" etc. It surely worked out for them to "shred", didn't it?

Having great technique on the instrument allows us to express ourselves and basically unlocks all the possibilities. I don't think there is any excuse of not having great technique? We all develop techniques we need and like. Its like learning a language, sure we can just learn 1000-5000 or so words and get by or we can learn all the fancy words as well and instantly be able to express ourselves better, rich with possibilities and ultimately be more flexible and interesting person to have a discussion with or just listen to.

What I have seen many times is that shredders get put down for what they can do. I don't think it is fair at all?
Cliche thing I have heard is - "I don't play fast, I'm a blues player" or "Nah, I'm more of a melodic player."
Does that mean that we should all just become blues players or hide behind the common terms to describe our style?

Also, why does a shredder needs to play a melodic solo? Why can't he just shred and what really defines being "melodic"?
In addition, if someone can "shred" does that mean automatically that he can't rip out a melodic country solo?

We are all different - some of us talk slowly and are moody (blues guy?) and some of us like to drive a Ferrari, go to gym and talk fast and do many things at once (neoclassical shredder?). If its "over the top", why is it bad?

I mean check out these guys, the huge smiles on their faces tell it all :



I don't think that "anyone" can shred but not anyone can have great dynamics, phrasing, melodic playing etc.
Each element requires hours and hours of practice and you can actually do ANYTHING you put your mind to. Practice is so rewarding because of that as you can and need to practice melodic playing as much as playing 16th notes at 250 bpm or sweep picking. In the end, it is all about having fun and enjoying music.

One another note - I think that "shredders" get a bad reputation on YT because of all the kids which shoot videos playing sloppy. They do attract more attention (due to speed which is always impressing us all?) but we can find sloppy videos in any genres really and probably in much higher quantity/ratio.

All that being said - I think shredders are not appreciated enough.

On a side note now: isn't popular music too constrained to "simplified" forms where we as musicians are sometimes afraid to do "more" even when we would like to (I know I did want to do it many times)? If it is fun to me and I wanna do it - why should I feel afraid to do it just because the modern popular song dictates failure with the masses if I do it? wink.gif

Personally, I think this song form is unbeatable :



I also love how Beatles managed to "hide" very clever and complex music into something that appears "simple" to average listener :



...but I also love a highly technical music and performance.


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dcz702
post Apr 14 2014, 12:14 AM
Post #26


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 613
Joined: 5-March 13
From: Las Vegas
Member No.: 17.838



shredding sucks to learn! tongue.gif ive been stuck on the same arpeggios for days trying to get it up to speed. ive been feeling like im rushing it and maybe if i give it a rest and come back start fresh it will come together without the frustration. so yea shredding sucks but it sounds so cool tongue.gif this is what im trying to learn solo starts at2:02 what im trying to get starts at 2:09, ive got it down just over half tempo clean, and almost to speed sloppy wink.gif not really shredding i gues just short explosive solo is more like it


This post has been edited by dcz702: Apr 14 2014, 12:16 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Spock
post Apr 14 2014, 12:25 AM
Post #27


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.206
Joined: 26-December 12
From: South Carolina, U.S.A.
Member No.: 17.265



I love shredding (in moderation). To me nothing sounds better than a soulful rhythm and solo with slight, tasteful instances of shred. As much as I idolize Satriani and was mesmerized at his concert, to me, the best part of the show was Stu Hamm playing the Charlie Brown theme song on Bass.



I want to shred, but evidently not enough to put the time in, as mentioned in another thread, but I hope something clicks inside my noodle to get that obsession to reach for it.

All that said, this is one of my ALL TIME FAVORITE solos...

PS - this guy is not 100% accurate but still...



This post has been edited by Spock: Apr 14 2014, 12:31 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Apr 14 2014, 01:45 AM
Post #28


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.781
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



This seems by far the most articulate and well thought out post of the lot smile.gif WELL DONE BOGDAN!!! I also prefer the term "Virtuoso" to Shredder, when appropriate, as it implies a level of ability rather than a predilection. However, to refer to oneself as a 'Virtuoso" is just a bid beyond the pale so self deprecatingly, and for ease of conversation, I usually refer to myself as a "Shredder" smile.gif It's just easier to move a conversation forward and let the baggage just be there.

I must say I appreciate players and styles of play that present music in an interesting way and this often does involve a level of virtuosity. Not to say "speed" but command of the form. NIRVANA could be seen as Virtuoso's of form, particularly "Grunge". While Beethoven could be see as a virtuoso of arrangement and melody, while Hendrix could be seen as a Virtuoso of style, and Buckethead a virtuoso of technique and form as well as melody.

However, as Mozart was often criticized for, some ears simply feel a song may contain "too many notes". To each his own smile.gif

***** Still I would admonish everyone here at GMC, at all levels of play to aspire towards virtuosity, no matter what your style of play. Being able to play nearly anything is very freeing. Whereas Being hemmed in by your own lack of ability/technique seems like being in musical prison. So break out, break free and don't let the thought of years of ardent practice stand between you and the player you could be. After all, as I've said before, being "good" at your instrument is something only you can do and something relatively few will ever know the pleasure of having. When people hear you play and say " I always wanted to play an instrument" you can reply in all seriousness "So did I" smile.gif



Todd

QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Apr 13 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Very interesting thread.

i must immediately say that IMO - Shredding Rocks! smile.gif
Now what I mean by that and how I feel about it? Shredding on the instrument can be perceived in many different ways. I see it as being a "virtuoso" and I suppose we could almost consider "shredding" or "shredder" as a modern term for the same thing? Lots of classical composers we know are also known to come with terms like "virtuoso", "music prodigy" etc. It surely worked out for them to "shred", didn't it?

Having great technique on the instrument allows us to express ourselves and basically unlocks all the possibilities. I don't think there is any excuse of not having great technique? We all develop techniques we need and like. Its like learning a language, sure we can just learn 1000-5000 or so words and get by or we can learn all the fancy words as well and instantly be able to express ourselves better, rich with possibilities and ultimately be more flexible and interesting person to have a discussion with or just listen to.

What I have seen many times is that shredders get put down for what they can do. I don't think it is fair at all?
Cliche thing I have heard is - "I don't play fast, I'm a blues player" or "Nah, I'm more of a melodic player."
Does that mean that we should all just become blues players or hide behind the common terms to describe our style?

Also, why does a shredder needs to play a melodic solo? Why can't he just shred and what really defines being "melodic"?
In addition, if someone can "shred" does that mean automatically that he can't rip out a melodic country solo?

We are all different - some of us talk slowly and are moody (blues guy?) and some of us like to drive a Ferrari, go to gym and talk fast and do many things at once (neoclassical shredder?). If its "over the top", why is it bad?

I mean check out these guys, the huge smiles on their faces tell it all :



I don't think that "anyone" can shred but not anyone can have great dynamics, phrasing, melodic playing etc.
Each element requires hours and hours of practice and you can actually do ANYTHING you put your mind to. Practice is so rewarding because of that as you can and need to practice melodic playing as much as playing 16th notes at 250 bpm or sweep picking. In the end, it is all about having fun and enjoying music.

One another note - I think that "shredders" get a bad reputation on YT because of all the kids which shoot videos playing sloppy. They do attract more attention (due to speed which is always impressing us all?) but we can find sloppy videos in any genres really and probably in much higher quantity/ratio.

All that being said - I think shredders are not appreciated enough.

On a side note now: isn't popular music too constrained to "simplified" forms where we as musicians are sometimes afraid to do "more" even when we would like to (I know I did want to do it many times)? If it is fun to me and I wanna do it - why should I feel afraid to do it just because the modern popular song dictates failure with the masses if I do it? wink.gif

Personally, I think this song form is unbeatable :



I also love how Beatles managed to "hide" very clever and complex music into something that appears "simple" to average listener :



...but I also love a highly technical music and performance.
[color="#FF0000"][/color]

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Apr 14 2014, 01:49 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 14 2014, 11:38 AM
Post #29


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Very wise words from Todd and Bogdan! So, to sum things up smile.gif Becoming extremely good at what you do and gathering experience - studio, jamming, recording, stage, should turn you into a pro - a balanced individual, knowing what he wants and having the right means to deploy his skills wherever needed, molding himself based on the situation.



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Apr 14 2014, 11:58 AM
Post #30


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.641
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



many wise words here,but what I see is people using the" shredders suck ", to get out of practicing , to not take it to the next level.I don't have to achieve that goal cause it sucks, when in reality they don't want to put in the hard work.
IMO, if your are not always trying to take it to the next level(in anything you do),Why do it at all
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Spock
post Apr 14 2014, 01:00 PM
Post #31


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.206
Joined: 26-December 12
From: South Carolina, U.S.A.
Member No.: 17.265



I hope I have not insinuated that I don't like shredder's that is not the case. In the "I Quit" thread where I said I didn't want to be a shredder, but want to be able to shred - sort of like, I don't want to be a jazz musician but would love to be able to play jazz. For some reason I guess, "shredder" seems to have a negative connotation - which it shouldn't, I see it as a semi-new word to explain a genre or style - and when I think of shredders all the greats come to mind.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Apr 14 2014, 04:04 PM
Post #32


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.667
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Apr 14 2014, 03:58 AM) *
but what I see is people using the" shredders suck ", to get out of practicing , to not take it to the next level.I don't have to achieve that goal cause it sucks, when in reality they don't want to put in the hard work.
IMO, if your are not always trying to take it to the next level(in anything you do),Why do it at all


I generally agree with this and think for the majority of folks doing music (or art in general) it's true.

But, if you really have the gift for musicality, I mean in the realm of a Lennon/McCartney or Kurt Cobain, Jeff Buckley, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, Howlin' Wolf or Keith Richards - ? Then no, you don't need a lot of technique. But I'd argue that the aforementioned had a ton of songwriting chops and that's what they focused on.

Clarity and personal honesty is important when you want to do music.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 15 2014, 07:03 AM
Post #33


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



I think we all agreed so, it would be a great time to....



biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Apr 15 2014, 07:03 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guido Bungenstoc...
post Apr 15 2014, 12:32 PM
Post #34


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 418
Joined: 9-January 14
From: Hamburg/Germany
Member No.: 19.244



@ Bogdan & Todd

Really good points here, guys! You just nailed it!

I also prefer the term "virtuoso" a lot more than just "shredder", sounds a lot more musically to me. tongue.gif
So my opinion about "shredding": if the mix of melody, phrasing, composition, groove & the other musicians(!!!) of a song just touches me in some way then I love it! If not I just switch off and forget about it. Simple as that! rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Guido Bungenstock: Apr 15 2014, 12:48 PM


--------------------
FIND ME HERE AT:
Guidorist.com | YouTube | Facebook | Soundcloud | Reverbnation | Bandcamp | Twitter

[soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/guidorist/bad-world[/soundcloud]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RichardK
post Apr 16 2014, 12:22 PM
Post #35


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 9-April 14
From: Netherlands
Member No.: 19.667



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Apr 14 2014, 10:58 AM) *
many wise words here,but what I see is people using the" shredders suck ", to get out of practicing , to not take it to the next level.I don't have to achieve that goal cause it sucks, when in reality they don't want to put in the hard work.
IMO, if your are not always trying to take it to the next level(in anything you do),Why do it at all


That's very true, but the opposite is also true: people getting stuck in technique and theory. The way I see it, technique and theory are your repetoire. The more you know and the more you can play, the more you can choose from to make things really cool and that is what I think is really the next level. I'm not a big fan of shredding, but if it works, it works and sometimes it sounds really awesome. My problem with it (what you can see on the hundreds of YouTube videos) is that it's all skill and no expression or creativity. And those last two are probably the most difficult things to do in music. I think it just sucks to see very skilled guitar player getting stuck in technique and theory.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd January 2017 - 11:25 PM