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> Learn This; The Fletcher Munson Curve
Mertay
post May 9 2017, 02:21 PM
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https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

Not a bad summery so I thought I'd share. Google if more focus is needed, a better understanding will help you save time in your future projects.

I got the link from a forum where someone was asking why his processors presets needed to be tweaked for gig levels...but this can apply for creating tones at home, mixing/mastering music and even when checking out gear at music stores...electric guitar players specially struggle with this as our instrument is mid focused and we deal with so much variables.

Basically the reason why I advice to tweak tones over a backing track so often, but this is only (hopefully) helpful advice not a solution.


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Phil66
post May 9 2017, 03:25 PM
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Interesting, thanks Mertay.

I have a question rolleyes.gif Is there a way to globally alter frequencies in Reaper or do you have to alter each individual track?

Depending on your answer, what is the best way to do it?

Thanks for your help mate smile.gif


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Mertay
post May 9 2017, 03:50 PM
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Hey Phil,

Yes from the main mixer output on reaper eq (or any fx, just like adding plug-in) can be applyed, actually this is pretty much what mastering is actually. For homestudio mastering there is no rule but eq'ing after increasing the level of the main mix (with a limiter) might work better for the beginner.

But this is for a mix/master scenario, the FM curve applies for pretty much everything music related. If you have a specific scenario let me know.

Also for those curious, this is a FM eq which is freeware; https://www.noisebud.se/?page_id=2671



it didn't do any help for me ever biggrin.gif I prefered to do my own eq'ing but for those who want to experiment are welcome to try

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 9 2017, 03:51 PM


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Phil66
post May 9 2017, 08:47 PM
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Thanks Mertay,

I've never altered the eq of a backing track. I've only altered the eq of my guitar using hardware mainly. Very occasionally I've altered the eq of my guitar by opening Amplitube and bypassing everything except the equaliser I've put in there. This is probably wrong but my hi-fi background tells me you can't really alter what has already been recorded and that you can only distort the frequencies.

It's like in this piece, in parts the bass notes (7 string) are overpowering and I thought afterwards I should have got the source sound correct because I'd I alerted the bass levels everything else would be altered slightly.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...st&p=711287


Much to learn wink.gif

Thanks for this great post Mertay smile.gif


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Mertay
post May 9 2017, 09:05 PM
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Its very rare I eq backing tracks, the problemtic ones are usually too tight/compressed sounding (like a loud mastered to death album) and I prefer to stay away from them.

As for post-eq'ing a guitar tone, this is very possible but expectations are important. When eq'ing one shouldn't expect any change of the tone but only focus on giving enough presence. You'll notice even the best presets needs some eq'ing for each backing track to be recorded with (specially if the backing tracks are from different sources/people), no escaping the fletcher-munson effect biggrin.gif


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Phil66
post May 9 2017, 09:10 PM
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So am I correct in thinking that I couldn't sort that guitar tone out?

One thing I find is that when I'm sorting out a tone, I get my favourite licks and then when I've got the tone, I can't remember what I played laugh.gif

Is re-amping the best option?

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 9 2017, 09:23 PM


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Todd Simpson
post May 9 2017, 09:23 PM
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You can "re amp" using a software plugin if you just record guitars direct smile.gif E.G. Plug your guitar directly in to your recording interface and use something like OVERLOUD or AMPLITUDE to get your guitar tone. That way, you can always go back and change the preset/tone all you want, whenever you want, at any time during recording/mixing smile.gif

I do it this way and I've found it to be the most flexible. If you record guitar with fx "baked in" e.g. using a microphone on your guitar cab with distortion/fx applied via amp/axe fx/kemper, etc., then you are sorta stuck with what you have. You can eq it and add more fx, but the main tone is already there. You have to re record to make major changes.

So recording guitars clean, and using a plugin provides the most flexibility and it lets you work at lower volume levels and doesn't require you do wake up the neighbors smile.gif Once you get used to it, you can get killer guitar tones that would be hard to get otherwise, if you tried recording your guitar cab/amp.

Here is an example. The guitar is all plugin based from OVERLOUD TH2.
https://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/x45-solo-challenge

QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 9 2017, 04:10 PM) *
So we I correct in thinking that I couldn't sort that guitar tone out?

One thing I find is that when I'm sorting out a tone, I get my favourite licks and then when I've got the tone, I can't remember what I played laugh.gif

Is re-amping the best option?

Cheers



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Phil66
post May 9 2017, 09:32 PM
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Thanks Todd,

Thing is, it's the tone itself that inspires my playing. Maybe this is due to my skill level. I just can't play clean the same as I do with distortion. It's like I can't play something jazzy with a metal tone.

On the flip side. The Helix can record a clean tone along with your effected tone and you can then re-amp the clean tone.

Is it a bad thing to not be able to play what you want with any given tone? If it is, how do you overcome that limitation?

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 9 2017, 10:11 PM
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Things can be done to get better balance on an already recorded tone but this takes experience, I wouldn't recommend for a guitar focused person as its more about using mixing tools...

For someone learning guitar, I'd rather see him/her focusing on amp eq'ing, cab. selecting etc. rather than mangling sounds with a multiband compressor. Then it would be more possible for him/her to get a better and better tone balance after each project which GMC is all about.

Todd already explained re-amping, which is a very valid approach. But for any reason if its not avalible (or prefered not to be used) my suggestion is although a processor/plug-ins give gazzillions of gear options, stick to one amp+cab. (and pedals) for a long while. Self-limitation to me has its rewards, forcing the mind to think "I want this" rather than "I'll try this". I'm pretty sure then I'll get much more specific questions from you and would be glad to help smile.gif


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Phil66
post May 10 2017, 05:19 PM
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Thanks Mertay,

When I get back home I'm going to set up a patch called Phil's Rig. Based on a Marshall head, Tube Screamer, and a Marshall based ir.

I can experiment with that for collabs. For lessons where I try to get close to the lesson tone I'll break out of it and try other things.

Cheers buddy.


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Mertay
post May 10 2017, 08:14 PM
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Sure, I also find Marshall emu.s flexable for soloing. A lot can be acheved with their amp eq's.


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Todd Simpson
post May 10 2017, 11:49 PM
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I don't think I explained this very well. Of course tone informs playing smile.gif When I say "record clean" I don't mean play without FX. I just mean record using a plugin. You can hear the plugin as you play, of course smile.gif It will sound like you have a very expensive amp and fx in another room of your house miced up with very expensive mics. Hopefully that level of sonic quality will improve your playing or at least motivate one to want to play better smile.gif
you can HEAR THE FX when you use a plugin like TH2. So it's just like playing through an amp with fx in that sense. Do you see what I'm saying now? Just record direct. I should not have used the word "clean"


I'd say record the "un effected" tone coming out of your helix as well a the effected tone on another track. That way you can run the un effected tone through a plugin or back through your helix later on and tweak it til you like it smile.gif

As for overcoming not being able to play what you want, the answer is very simple smile.gif Everybody:?...ahem....PRACTICE!!!
Todd


tly
QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 9 2017, 04:32 PM) *
Thanks Todd,

Thing is, it's the tone itself that inspires my playing. Maybe this is due to my skill level. I just can't play clean the same as I do with distortion. It's like I can't play something jazzy with a metal tone.

On the flip side. The Helix can record a clean tone along with your effected tone and you can then re-amp the clean tone.

Is it a bad thing to not be able to play what you want with any given tone? If it is, how do you overcome that limitation?

Cheers


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 10 2017, 11:52 PM


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Mertay
post May 12 2017, 12:48 AM
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Can the helix send the DAW 3 channels?

1 for direct (incase I missed if mentioned, you don't have to listen to the direct track while recording) and 2 for helix cause the modulations would use stereo.


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Phil66
post May 12 2017, 09:15 AM
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Thanks Mertay,,

I'm not sure, you know how routing messes with my head blink.gif laugh.gif I've seen the term "wet dry wet" a lot on the Line 6 Helix forum, I'll have to check it out.

I must try this beast into the return of my Valveking very soon smile.gif

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 12 2017, 12:08 PM
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lol lets go 1 at a time smile.gif

First we'll handle the noise issue (by trying the helix direct, then with soundcard and then preamp+soundcard too see how things go), then we'll see what will be next smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 12 2017, 12:08 PM


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Phil66
post May 12 2017, 04:51 PM
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biggrin.gif

For the record I had exactly the same with my GT100 .

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 12 2017, 05:08 PM
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Yeah I remember we couldn't solve that but before blaming house electricity I'd like to take shot with the helix by extending the chain slowly.


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Phil66
post May 12 2017, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 10 2017, 11:49 PM) *
As for overcoming not being able to play what you want, the answer is very simple smile.gif Everybody:?...ahem....PRACTICE!!!
Todd


What I meant Todd, was, is it bad that one can't play what one wants to play when one hasn't got a suitable tone? Should one be able to play what's in one's head even with a clean tone over a very metal backing, for example? wink.gif

I think this has been answered since, just clarifying wink.gif

Also, I really do practise as much as I can. I can't really work late into the night as I have a 6am start everyday. I get home at 17:30 ish, eat dinner with my wife, chat and watch the evening news until around 19:00 which is when I enter the man cave until around 20:45 when I go and shower and go and spend an hour with my wife before we go to bed at around 22:00. That hour and three quarters in the man cave equates to a real 75-90 minutes with things like tuning, recording and or videoing all eating into the time slot. It takes me a while to edit my video and sync the sound so it's all time without fingers on geetar wink.gif



Cheers smile.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 13 2017, 09:41 AM


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Phil66
post May 16 2017, 07:12 PM
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Hello Mertay,

I got an email from Line 6 today showing this video, it was what I mentioned above. It looks like a great thing to be able to do, not what I thought it was but interesting wink.gif

I can't embed but the link is >>>>>>HERE<<<<<<


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