Harmonic + Natural Minor |
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Harmonic + Natural Minor |
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Jan 16 2019, 03:08 PM |
Without going too deep into this, a lot of classical music were built around the melodic minor, and the approach was often that ascending we would want the note value of the major 7th to lead into the octave, as it leads quite a lot different and better than a minor 7th.
That, however, gave a step of 1½ semitone before reaching the major 7th, which was a bit unpleasant, maybe somewhat exotic sounding, so they would move the 6th up half a step. This lead to the melodic minor scale. In A minor that would be: A B C D E F# G#. However when we descend in a melody you don't have that same leading tone and need for the semitone step between G# and A, so they would instead revert to natural minor again. There are a lot, lot, lot more "rules" and approaches. Neopolitan 6ths etc. This course opens today and I can recommend enrolling for free and see what you can use. I have never quite gotten through it, but I may give it a go again: https://www.coursera.org/learn/classical-composition |
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Jan 16 2019, 03:11 PM |
Hi mate! That's a beautiful piece of music!
At first, I recommend you to read "Minor Scales Revisited" since there you'll find the difference between minor scales, why and how they are used. Each of those minor scales give us different chords when we harmonize the notes in thirds, being the V chord the main reason why Barroque composers combined both scales. In Natural minor, the V chord is minor 7th, while it's dominant (7th) in Harmonic Minor. So what you'll find in most of those pieces are natural minor progressions that change the minor 7th chord for a dominant chord, and that's where the melody also switches to Harmonic minor. Harmonic Minor Scale These are the three minor tonalities: You can compose progressions switching from one to the other and you'll be using what's called "Modal Interchange". Experiment! -------------------- My lessons
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Jan 18 2019, 04:54 AM |
Fun fact.
Many modern musicologists don't think he wrote that beautiful piece. It is suspected that it was composed by his cataloger, Remo Giazotto. In his day Tomaso Albinoni was mostly known for his operatic work. This is an early Italian/Venetian baroque piece. They didn't really think in 'scales'. It's all about moving lines (melody) and the supporting voices (harmony). Important to remember is that just because a piece is in a minor key doesn't mean that they don't write/play major chords and major melodic lines. Minor scales (all minor scales) contain major triads and 7th chords and composers of all eras, including now, borrow chords, especially major and dominant 7th chords, from the parallel major scale. In other words, if you play in the key of A natural minor (aeolian) you can easily 'borrow' from A major (ionian). The most common application of this is borrowing an E7, the V chord, from A major when playing in A minor (modal interchange that Gabe mentions above). This gives you that 'Harmonic Minor' sound. There is also a lot of upper and lower neighbors used (1/2 steps above and below the target note) to ornament the melody. The whole piece modulates to a major key at about 3:51 and stays there until about 4:46. So to reiterate - thinking scales is not where it's at. Scales will be used but they're not the primary melodic driver. If you're interested in exploring baroque harmony, the how and the why, dive into these ... https://helsinginkaupunginorkesteri.fi/en/h...the-baroque-era http://www.mostlywind.co.uk/baroque.html https://study.com/academy/lesson/counterpoi...y-examples.html This post has been edited by klasaine: Jan 19 2019, 03:46 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Jan 18 2019, 09:14 PM |
Ken is a bit of a theory guru. If it seems complex, don't be thrown off. It will all make perfect sense as you continue on your journey. You've got to get past the starting block first and get used to creating improv solos of any kind. Simply doing that will help a lot. You will be able to understand the theory as you start to understand what you are playing in relation to whatever backing you are working with. You can start by just learning to play on time, and in key. Once you get a good handle on that, it's time to branch out.
Fun fact.
Many modern musicologists don't think he wrote that beautiful piece. It is suspected that it was composed by his cataloger, Remo Giazotto. In his day Tomaso Albinoni was mostly known for his operatic work. This is an early Italian/Venetian baroque piece. They didn't really think in 'scales'. It's all about moving lines (melody) and the supporting voices (harmony). Important to remember is that just because a piece is in a minor key doesn't mean that they don't write/play major chords and major melodic lines. Minor scales (all minor scales) contain major triads and 7th chords and composers of all eras, including now, borrow major chords from the parallel major scale. In other words, if you play in the key of A natural minor (Aeolian) you can easily 'borrow' from A major. The most common application of this is borrowing an E7, the V chord, from A major when playing in A minor (modal interchange that Gabe mentions above). this gives you that 'Harmonic Minor' sound. There is also a lot of upper and lower neighbors used (1/2 steps above and below the target note) to ornament the melody. The whole piece modulates to a major key at about 3:51 and stays there until about 4:46. So to reiterate - thinking scales is not where it's at. Scales will be used but they're not the primary melodic driver. If you're interested in exploring baroque harmony, the how and the why, dive into these ... https://helsinginkaupunginorkesteri.fi/en/h...the-baroque-era http://www.mostlywind.co.uk/baroque.html https://study.com/academy/lesson/counterpoi...y-examples.html |
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Jan 22 2020, 09:24 PM |
Just in basic terms, can a song be written in Harmonic Minor? Sure Taking the minor scale and raising up the 7th half a step gives it that cool harmonic vibe. So if the chord progression follows a harmonic minor progression, then yeah, the song is written in harmonic minor. Sorta the same way that if a songs chords follow a Major progression, the song will have a "Major" vibe. can you share a bit of the song with us here? I"m sure Ken will have more to say. Todd Hi, thanks for the reply! https://clyp.it/3f3usvaw Here is a short loop of what would be the verse. If there were a solo section it would go over this but I most just tried jamming for 8 bars to see if i could outline the harmonic minor. The second time through is a bit clunky, i know. the way I have this is written currently is 4 bars of 12/8 played twice. Bm - A - D/F# - D/G | D/F# - D/G | Bm - A - D/F# - D/G | D/F# - A#dim7 | In the full song that A#dim7 leads into a G for the prechorus. Apologies for the unmixed recording, just a quick thing to get started with. Harmonically, the rest of the song follows suit (to my ears) where the turnaround of each section is that same kind of diminished sound. This post has been edited by SeveredSurvival: Jan 22 2020, 09:26 PM |
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Jan 22 2020, 11:01 PM |
It's working quite well! Sounds good so far. Keep that bit you have on a loop and see what you can work in to it in terms of improv. Don't be afraid top play notes that are not in key, not in the scale etc. Let yourself play some bad notes so that you can hear how they sound as well. I've found that most backing tracks with a few whole steps in them can often work well with the Minor, Harmonic Minor and Blues scale. From there it's really just experimentation. It's important to get to the point where you can trust your ears first. Sometimes you may play a note that is NOT technically in key but, somehow it still woks and sounds cool. In the end, that's really what it comes down to. Does what I'm playing convey the emotion I want to convey and does it work as a composition?
Todd Hi, thanks for the reply!
https://clyp.it/3f3usvaw Here is a short loop of what would be the verse. If there were a solo section it would go over this but I most just tried jamming for 8 bars to see if i could outline the harmonic minor. The second time through is a bit clunky, i know. the way I have this is written currently is 4 bars of 12/8 played twice. Bm - A - D/F# - D/G | D/F# - D/G | Bm - A - D/F# - D/G | D/F# - A#dim7 | In the full song that A#dim7 leads into a G for the prechorus. Apologies for the unmixed recording, just a quick thing to get started with. Harmonically, the rest of the song follows suit (to my ears) where the turnaround of each section is that same kind of diminished sound. |
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Jan 23 2020, 12:40 AM |
The main body of it is B natural minor (aeolian) and that A#dim chord is just an F#7b9 chord. The V7 chord so at that point yes, it's B harm min.
*The harmonic minor scale - as it's own entity - is a relatively recent construct. Composers and listeners really liked hearing a dominant V going to I (maj or min) so they 'borrowed' the leading tone, in this case A# from the parallel maj key. A lot of academics say thast there's really only only one minor with the tendency to either raise or lower the 6th and 7th degrees. This post has been edited by klasaine: Jan 23 2020, 01:21 AM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Jan 23 2020, 05:53 AM |
Without going too deep into this, a lot of classical music were built around the melodic minor, and the approach was often that ascending we would want the note value of the major 7th to lead into the octave, as it leads quite a lot different and better than a minor 7th. That, however, gave a step of 1½ semitone before reaching the major 7th, which was a bit unpleasant, maybe somewhat exotic sounding, so they would move the 6th up half a step. This lead to the melodic minor scale. In A minor that would be: A B C D E F# G#. However when we descend in a melody you don't have that same leading tone and need for the semitone step between G# and A, so they would instead revert to natural minor again. For the first time ever, that actually made sense to me Thanks Ben -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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