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> Guitarists And Lyrics, How much attention we pay to writing and understanding lyrics?
Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 5 2011, 09:48 AM
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Hey guys,

all these years, I've never quite payed any attention to writing lyrics and trying to understand their meaning and value to the music listener in general (throw tomatoes at me for being a guitarist biggrin.gif). But something strange and interesting occurred when I was put face to face with the idea of writing meaningful lyrics (as nobody else in the band tried to put up with it) - It came flowing an I started enjoying it step by step.

What's your opinion on lyrics writing and their meaning in a song?


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jan 5 2011, 10:23 AM
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Well I use to not care about it at all.

Then I suddenly realized that all the songs I liked had cool lyrics. Also when I tried singing, I realized that it was completely impossible without meaningful lyrics - I just wasn't motivated screaming my guts out!


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K1R
post Jan 5 2011, 11:22 AM
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I think lyrics mean a lot. Many bands are popular just because of lyrics. I don't know if it's a good example as this band is not much popular outside Russia and Post-Soviet countries but Lumen very popular in Russia because of their lyrics. They discuss political and social problems which have to be discussed. Here is their video with subtitles:


I also very like to analyse lyrics and just read it after listening the song I like. I liked Iron Maiden's "Run To The Hills" so I wanted to know what it is about, I read lyrics and realized that it is about American Indians who were running to the hills to save their life from invaders, that made me love this song twice more.


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Lian Gerbino
post Jan 5 2011, 03:09 PM
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I'm a lyrics lover!
I really need to know what a band or artist is talking about.
I like lyrics with a clear message and not those extremely difficult or even weird! I love when an artist is based on some books or on some specific concept.



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Ben Higgins
post Jan 5 2011, 03:15 PM
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Great topic Cosmin !

I must admit that I don't usually pay attention to the lyrics when I first hear a new piece of music, but as I listen more, then I take things in bit by bit. But good lyrics are very important I believe.

Just like Kirill and Lian said, I love lyrics that have a story or are based on history in some way.. it definitely makes me appreciate the song even more.

Now for writing lyrics ? I find it incredibly hard. Although I generally get good results I have to try really hard.. it doesn't flow out at all. Hoepfully one day it will change and get easier ! smile.gif


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Lester
post Jan 5 2011, 03:16 PM
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It really depends for me...

eitherwise I really like the music for the instruments, nice groove, licks or something else
For example: 6 string theory album by Lee Ritenour and many other great guitarists.

Or I like the singing for the sound of the voice, for example Black country communion (Glenn Hughes singing)

Or I like the lyrics, sometimes it's even Dutch music (which I don't usually like) for the recognisable lyrics.

And some just have it all... smile.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 5 2011, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (Lian Gerbino @ Jan 5 2011, 02:09 PM) *
I'm a lyrics lover!
I really need to know what a band or artist is talking about.
I like lyrics with a clear message and not those extremely difficult or even weird! I love when an artist is based on some books or on some specific concept.


I totally agree about the concept behind the lyrics, but I like weird lyrics - the deeper and more intricate, the more I like them! tongue.gif There always has to be a hidden something here and there. This is how I like to write.

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jan 5 2011, 09:23 AM) *
Well I use to not care about it at all.

Then I suddenly realized that all the songs I liked had cool lyrics. Also when I tried singing, I realized that it was completely impossible without meaningful lyrics - I just wasn't motivated screaming my guts out!


Hey Kris! Well, I learned in time that lyrics have to be composed from word which tend to call the vocalist to action - a very good example is set by Mike Patton, he says that whenever he writes lyrics he always searches for THE ONLY words that are fit in a phrase - no compromises for that guy tongue.gif

I also love Corey Taylor (Slipknot/ Stone Sour) he can bite words in a tremendous way, and his lyrics are always meaningful.

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 5 2011, 02:15 PM) *
Great topic Cosmin !

I must admit that I don't usually pay attention to the lyrics when I first hear a new piece of music, but as I listen more, then I take things in bit by bit. But good lyrics are very important I believe.

Just like Kirill and Lian said, I love lyrics that have a story or are based on history in some way.. it definitely makes me appreciate the song even more.

Now for writing lyrics ? I find it incredibly hard. Although I generally get good results I have to try really hard.. it doesn't flow out at all. Hoepfully one day it will change and get easier ! smile.gif


Hey Ben! The way I see it, in order to be really sincere and transmit an incredible vibe, you have to write about experiences which you had, directly or indirectly - I chose this path, and I think it's the right one for me. I managed to come up with some concepts like our endless struggle to grasp on to people, without being able to let them go when the time comes. I associated that with "sakura" - the Japanese cherry flower, which symbolises everything which is beautiful but frail and shall eventually perish. We need to accept things as they are, and manage to enjoy experiences and the "gifts" people offer when they "visit" our lives, being able to move on when they have passed.

This is one of them, I have many more I'm working on smile.gif

QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 5 2011, 02:16 PM) *
It really depends for me...

eitherwise I really like the music for the instruments, nice groove, licks or something else
For example: 6 string theory album by Lee Ritenour and many other great guitarists.

Or I like the singing for the sound of the voice, for example Black country communion (Glenn Hughes singing)

Or I like the lyrics, sometimes it's even Dutch music (which I don't usually like) for the recognisable lyrics.

And some just have it all... smile.gif


I love Mr. Ritenour's album! And of the dutch bands, I like Entwine, Kane, Ilse DeLange (is that correctly written?) and of course Anouk smile.gif
So I guess that instrumental and vocal music, are clearly both to my liking biggrin.gif


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2011, 04:10 PM
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i rly dig to dig xD all Dream Theater songs lyrics if you read it carefull you might get suprise. laugh.gif




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Lester
post Jan 5 2011, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 5 2011, 03:42 PM) *
I love Mr. Ritenour's album! And of the dutch bands, I like Entwine, Kane, Ilse DeLange (is that correctly written?) and of course Anouk smile.gif
So I guess that instrumental and vocal music, are clearly both to my liking biggrin.gif


haha, you've got the names right! smile.gif
Oh, one other I forgot: jason Mraz is really great with lyrics, he has a great way of putting things and getting points across, pretty much like poetry.
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Ulrik
post Jan 5 2011, 04:51 PM
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I normally don't care that much about lyrics as long as the singer is good, and the song is not too repetitve or just dumb.
Also when bands from for example Denmark sing in English and use wrong grammar it irritates me slightly.



Here is an example:

I like that boom boom pow
Them chickens jackin' my style
They try copy my swagger
I'm on that next shit now

I'm so 3008
You so 2000 and late
I got that boom, boom, boom
That future boom, boom, boom
Let me get it now

no matter what music, that kind of lyrics will just ruin a song for me.



Then we have stuff like this:

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du, du hast
Du hast mich

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du, du hast
Du hast mich

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du hast mich

Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Und ich hab nichts gesagt

Willst du bis der Tod euch scheidet
Treu ihr sein fur alle Tage
Nein, nein

Willst du bis zum Tod, der scheide
Siie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen
Nein, nein

Pretty repetitive and it wouldn't work if all Rammstein songs were like this.
But it just works in German, it's so intense and full of feeling.


One of my favorite bands regarding both lyrics and music COF:

I, I still recall, the first fullmoon of May
‘Neath whose rays we lay together
And those bright nights on glassy waves
When we would glide lightly away
From the grain
For wicked flights of pleasure

Those visions fade
Like ghosts to life’s parade
Though incisions once made Her so vivid
A scarlet whore
With both heels in the door
Of a heaven severed from me, insipid

And midst the writhe of parapets
Where angels sigh, lonely she sits
Upon the lip
Only a slip from whence I beg Her

That I would wish
Her kiss a chrysalis
To break to make my fluttered heart amiss
And in those frozen moments won
From grief that creeps to wreathe the sun
In drapes inwove with deathshead wing
I thank God for the suffering

Just poetry!


I only try and analyze songs I really like.
If it sounds cool I don't care what all the metaphores might mean.

This post has been edited by Ulrik: Jan 5 2011, 04:55 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 5 2011, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (Ulrik @ Jan 5 2011, 03:51 PM) *
I normally don't care that much about lyrics as long as the singer is good, and the song is not too repetitve or just dumb.
Also when bands from for example Denmark sing in English and use wrong grammar it irritates me slightly.



Here is an example:

I like that boom boom pow
Them chickens jackin' my style
They try copy my swagger
I'm on that next shit now

I'm so 3008
You so 2000 and late
I got that boom, boom, boom
That future boom, boom, boom
Let me get it now

no matter what music, that kind of lyrics will just ruin a song for me.



Then we have stuff like this:

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du, du hast
Du hast mich

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du, du hast
Du hast mich

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du hast mich

Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Und ich hab nichts gesagt

Willst du bis der Tod euch scheidet
Treu ihr sein fur alle Tage
Nein, nein

Willst du bis zum Tod, der scheide
Siie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen
Nein, nein

Pretty repetitive and it wouldn't work if all Rammstein songs were like this.
But it just works in German, it's so intense and full of feeling.


One of my favorite bands regarding both lyrics and music COF:

I, I still recall, the first fullmoon of May
‘Neath whose rays we lay together
And those bright nights on glassy waves
When we would glide lightly away
From the grain
For wicked flights of pleasure

Those visions fade
Like ghosts to life’s parade
Though incisions once made Her so vivid
A scarlet whore
With both heels in the door
Of a heaven severed from me, insipid

And midst the writhe of parapets
Where angels sigh, lonely she sits
Upon the lip
Only a slip from whence I beg Her

That I would wish
Her kiss a chrysalis
To break to make my fluttered heart amiss
And in those frozen moments won
From grief that creeps to wreathe the sun
In drapes inwove with deathshead wing
I thank God for the suffering

Just poetry!


I only try and analyze songs I really like.
If it sounds cool I don't care what all the metaphores might mean.


The COF lyrics are awesome! Thank you biggrin.gif I don't like their music (even though I happen to use the Paul Allender PRS biggrin.gif) but the lyrics are pure poetry wink.gif


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Ben Higgins
post Jan 5 2011, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 5 2011, 02:42 PM) *
I managed to come up with some concepts like our endless struggle to grasp on to people, without being able to let them go when the time comes. I associated that with "sakura" - the Japanese cherry flower, which symbolises everything which is beautiful but frail and shall eventually perish. We need to accept things as they are, and manage to enjoy experiences and the "gifts" people offer when they "visit" our lives, being able to move on when they have passed.


I think that's a great concept to explore. It's a very Zen like approach to life. smile.gif We need to live in the here & now, so when death comes, there's no regrets and fear. It's a very Eastern philosophical approach, and the concept of death is a fearful one in Western culture but it's true.

QUOTE (Ulrik @ Jan 5 2011, 03:51 PM) *
One of my favorite bands regarding both lyrics and music COF:

I, I still recall, the first fullmoon of May
‘Neath whose rays we lay together
And those bright nights on glassy waves
When we would glide lightly away
From the grain
For wicked flights of pleasure

Those visions fade
Like ghosts to life’s parade
Though incisions once made Her so vivid
A scarlet whore
With both heels in the door
Of a heaven severed from me, insipid

And midst the writhe of parapets
Where angels sigh, lonely she sits
Upon the lip
Only a slip from whence I beg Her

That I would wish
Her kiss a chrysalis
To break to make my fluttered heart amiss
And in those frozen moments won
From grief that creeps to wreathe the sun
In drapes inwove with deathshead wing
I thank God for the suffering

Just poetry!


Yes, the Filth are great ! Damnation and a Day is a good album, even if Midian is better to me smile.gif


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Marek Rojewski
post Jan 5 2011, 06:30 PM
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I can enjoy songs that have catchy riffs and solos, but all my favorite songs are that which consists also some great lyrics. I really liked to sing along my classical guitar, or even make some "songs" of my own and also sing them. I wouldn't be able to sing some "rubbish". Another reason why I love Blind Guardian, lyrics are often top-notch.


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Daniel Realpe
post Jan 5 2011, 06:57 PM
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first off, when I started listening to music I didn't know a word in english and I didn't care, I just thought it sounded cool.

But know that I understand it I can't stand cheesy love lyrics. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Daniel Realpe: Jan 5 2011, 06:57 PM


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Mudbone
post Jan 5 2011, 09:06 PM
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Kurt Cobain thought that it didn't really matter what the lyrics were, it just mattered how catchy they were, like on the song "Teen Spirit". In Mainstream Music lyrics are just as important, if not even more important than music, thats why the charts are dominated by love songs. In metal however, especially death metal, lyrics come secondary to the music. If the music is shit, nobody will listen to it, it doesn't matter how thoughtful the lyrics are.

In the realm of the metal world, I always liked the depth and intricacy of Megadeths lyrics. There was always a perfect harmony between lyrical subject matter and the music.

But some of my favorite lyrics are from the band Steel Panther. I wish I could post them here, but they most certainly don't meet GMC Forum Guidelines biggrin.gif If you haven't heard of them, check out their song "Death To All But Metal" on Youtube, and you'll see what I mean tongue.gif

Heres some lyrics I sing every morning in the shower biggrin.gif




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Gitarrero
post Jan 5 2011, 09:40 PM
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Good lyrics are a must, I love storytelling and I absolutely love concept albums like DTs Metropolis Part II.
And I have to pick Rammstein for a band with awesome lyrics. Sure, Du Hast is repetitive, but the meaning of the song and the whole message is so great and deep that these lyrics work well. I'm sure it's difficult to understand for people who don't speak german, but believe me, Rammstein lyrics are a bit like poetry smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jan 5 2011, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (Ulrik @ Jan 5 2011, 04:51 PM) *
Then we have stuff like this:

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du, du hast
Du hast mich

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du, du hast
Du hast mich

Du, du hast
Du hast mich
Du hast mich

Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Und ich hab nichts gesagt

Willst du bis der Tod euch scheidet
Treu ihr sein fur alle Tage
Nein, nein

Willst du bis zum Tod, der scheide
Siie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen
Nein, nein

Pretty repetitive and it wouldn't work if all Rammstein songs were like this.
But it just works in German, it's so intense and full of feeling.


Good example - this is actually my all time favorite in terms of lyrics - to me you cant beat that. The double meaning of the words in German makes it the best metal lyrics I have heard. What starts as "you hate me" develops in to a wedding ceremony - and the final answer is "NO!" . It's fantastic. wub.gif

Check the bottom of this page while listening to the tune on high volume and you will see what I mean.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/du-...8256caf000abdf1


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Gitarrero
post Jan 5 2011, 09:49 PM
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Whoops, german grammar and translation police!
Actually, correct translation is:

Du
du hasst
du hasst mich
du hast mich gefragt
du hast mich gefragt, und ich hab nichts gesagt

You
You hate
You hate me
You have asked me
You have asked me and I said nothing

But actually this is the only lyrics site I know where the great double meaning of the line
Willst du bis zum Tod, der scheide
is explained.

This post has been edited by Gitarrero: Jan 5 2011, 09:50 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 5 2011, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE (Mudbone @ Jan 5 2011, 08:06 PM) *
Kurt Cobain thought that it didn't really matter what the lyrics were, it just mattered how catchy they were, like on the song "Teen Spirit". In Mainstream Music lyrics are just as important, if not even more important than music, thats why the charts are dominated by love songs. In metal however, especially death metal, lyrics come secondary to the music. If the music is shit, nobody will listen to it, it doesn't matter how thoughtful the lyrics are.

In the realm of the metal world, I always liked the depth and intricacy of Megadeths lyrics. There was always a perfect harmony between lyrical subject matter and the music.

But some of my favorite lyrics are from the band Steel Panther. I wish I could post them here, but they most certainly don't meet GMC Forum Guidelines biggrin.gif If you haven't heard of them, check out their song "Death To All But Metal" on Youtube, and you'll see what I mean tongue.gif

Heres some lyrics I sing every morning in the shower biggrin.gif



Hey Mudbone! biggrin.gif Steel Panther's lyrics should be tought in school smile.gif) You guys should DEFINITELY listen to "Death to all but metal" and "Community property"

Horns up!


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The Uncreator
post Jan 6 2011, 12:27 AM
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Lyrics are essential in every way to me. To me, music is taking poetry and adding music on top of the poem, as a generalization (and in such cases that it applies). A good story, a personal experience, or whatever the lyrics are, it only ever matters what you get from it. The lyrics could be about this and that, but you might get from it something else, something that means a lot to you.

To me, saying lyrics don't matter is degrading a singer in a way. The most unique thing about a singer is that its the only musical instrument that can speak a language. And when you see music as a universal language (which I do), it adds an extremely intimate and personal element to an already amazing element of life and nature.
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