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> Getting Good Direct In Metal Tone
metaldan
post Sep 20 2012, 03:57 AM
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Hey guys! I just wrote up this new article about getting good tone using direct in methods. I used Marcus Siepen's lesson on Metal Rhythm Guitar as the musical example I recorded to demonstrate the recording techniques. Tell me what you all think! I would totally love to hear what you guys do to get good tone from your amp modelers!

www.dansorber.com

Ive attached the track as well as my POD FARM preset for anyone interested...

Up the irons! \m/
Attached File(s)
Attached File  GMCMetalRhythm.mp3 ( 2.58MB ) Number of downloads: 211
Attached File  Dan_Sorber_s_Rhythm.l6t ( 5.66K ) Number of downloads: 119
 


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 22 2012, 12:50 AM
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NIce! Sounds like a Marshal JCM 900 with an SM57 IMHO so it's a very spiff emulation in my book in that it sounds like an amp, not like software smile.gif Well done!

I've found one of the tricks, is to get plenty of signal in to the interface/computer so the plugin/vst doesn't have to pull up the noise floor any more than it has to. Otherwise, you can get just wads of extra noise/hiss and the emulators don't seem to overdrive as well with lower signal levels. Here is an example I did today. Using OVERLOUD TH1.

http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/gmc-lesson-128-backing-six

QUOTE (metaldan @ Sep 19 2012, 10:57 PM) *
Hey guys! I just wrote up this new article about getting good tone using direct in methods. I used Marcus Siepen's lesson on Metal Rhythm Guitar as the musical example I recorded to demonstrate the recording techniques. Tell me what you all think! I would totally love to hear what you guys do to get good tone from your amp modelers!

www.dansorber.com

Ive attached the track as well as my POD FARM preset for anyone interested...

Up the irons! \m/



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metaldan
post Sep 22 2012, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 21 2012, 11:50 PM) *
NIce! Sounds like a Marshal JCM 900 with an SM57 IMHO so it's a very spiff emulation in my book in that it sounds like an amp, not like software smile.gif Well done!

I've found one of the tricks, is to get plenty of signal in to the interface/computer so the plugin/vst doesn't have to pull up the noise floor any more than it has to. Otherwise, you can get just wads of extra noise/hiss and the emulators don't seem to overdrive as well with lower signal levels. Here is an example I did today. Using OVERLOUD TH1.

http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/gmc-lesson-128-backing-six


Thanks Todd! Thats what I was trying to go for... getting that emulation as realistic as possible. I think a big part of that is the extra steps I take to prep the signal before it reaches the emulator.

You definitely mention a point I didn't go over thats super important... and that is obtaining the proper levels... I like to try and set it so my loudest point comes right up to 0 (so generally its set around -3 or -4 with 'normal' levels). I suppose you want it as loud as possible without clipping. I have three levels to check to avoid clipping: at the preamp, at POD FARM itself and of course in the DAW. But hiss can be a problem definitely... its good my direct box has a ground level... helps get rid of a lot of noise... ALSO, making sure your guitar is properly shielded helps a lot too!

Your tone is definitely some of the best emulation Ive heard! Nice job! Its definitely 'in your face'... I think if I used some impulse files I could've gotten a similar quality. Not sure what you did but you have a definite 'realistic' factor going on too... like I'm right there in your iso booth as you record it!

hmmm, looks like I'll be writing a part 2 to this article, hahah.

This post has been edited by metaldan: Sep 22 2012, 01:01 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 22 2012, 03:07 AM
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Thanks wink.gif The big secret is the OVERLOUD TH1 custom patch. It allows wads of signal processing and supports impulses on the cabinet emulation right inside the plugin. Here is a screen grab. I'm using

Some pedals, the basic head, TWO guitars cabs (one with impulses) 3 mics, and rack gear. It's similar to what I might do if I was recording using actual gear, but it's all in software so it's much easier. smile.gif

Attached Image

The guitars are doubled and panned 15 degrees off center and BINGO! Metal Magic wink.gif


Todd


QUOTE (metaldan @ Sep 21 2012, 08:00 PM) *
Thanks Todd! Thats what I was trying to go for... getting that emulation as realistic as possible. I think a big part of that is the extra steps I take to prep the signal before it reaches the emulator.

You definitely mention a point I didn't go over thats super important... and that is obtaining the proper levels... I like to try and set it so my loudest point comes right up to 0 (so generally its set around -3 or -4 with 'normal' levels). I suppose you want it as loud as possible without clipping. I have three levels to check to avoid clipping: at the preamp, at POD FARM itself and of course in the DAW. But hiss can be a problem definitely... its good my direct box has a ground level... helps get rid of a lot of noise... ALSO, making sure your guitar is properly shielded helps a lot too!

Your tone is definitely some of the best emulation Ive heard! Nice job! Its definitely 'in your face'... I think if I used some impulse files I could've gotten a similar quality. Not sure what you did but you have a definite 'realistic' factor going on too... like I'm right there in your iso booth as you record it!

hmmm, looks like I'll be writing a part 2 to this article, hahah.



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vonhotch
post Sep 22 2012, 03:22 AM
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Nice sound, and the aticle was good. I also liked the "Defining yourself" article.


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metaldan
post Sep 24 2012, 07:06 PM
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@TODD: Never heard of TH1 until now smile.gif ... definitely sounds good. I like how the setup is 'real' in a virtual world. To get POD FARM to sound halfway decent usually requires setting up the 'gear' in ways you would NEVER do in the real world. *shrugs*

Hey Von! Thanks for checking out my website! More to come!


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 25 2012, 09:37 PM
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The plugin is something I was told about by one of our students here at GMC. I was a big fan of GUITAR RIG and still am but this one seemed to sound better out of the box with minimal tweaking and the integration of impulses and ability to stack multi cabinets and mics really gets it to start sounding very real and very un "sim" which is handy smile.gif

You can download the TH1 (The cheaper version) Or TH2 (Pricier but with wads more virtual gear) from the overloud web site and give them both a whirl to see what you think.

Since many students use the TH1 plugin, and since those presets work in TH2 as well, I"ve been using it like crazy and sharing presets in my lesson notes. The preset you hear in this clip and the lick in the solo is from our last lesson actually smile.gif

http://bit.ly/gmclesson128


Todd

QUOTE (metaldan @ Sep 24 2012, 02:06 PM) *
@TODD: Never heard of TH1 until now smile.gif ... definitely sounds good. I like how the setup is 'real' in a virtual world. To get POD FARM to sound halfway decent usually requires setting up the 'gear' in ways you would NEVER do in the real world. *shrugs*

Hey Von! Thanks for checking out my website! More to come!



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Lovtscho
post Sep 29 2012, 10:26 AM
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Just a question:

So you prefer the overloud instead of NI Guitar Rig? Has this to do with latency or sound?


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 29 2012, 07:57 PM
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It usually depends on which one I"m spending more time with. For me, neither one has any latancy but that's more about the rig I'm running them on than the plugins themselves. If there were latency issues, I wouldn't use either one. Glad there arent any.

I spent a LOT of time with NI Guitar Rig and have a thread full of free patches if you want to check them out in my forum. I still use it in Chat lessons for Metronome and sometimes for emulation. But I"ve been getting really in to OVERLOUD TH1 lately as the underlying algorithms that create the tone continue to impress me. I'm able to get it to sound like a somewhat like an actual rig with nowhere near the effort that NI took. It seems that it works a bit better out of the box somehow.

But I love emulation in general. I have Guitar Rig 4, Guitar Rig 5, Overloud TH1, Overloud TH2, and Amplitude Metal. Each one does certain things really well IMHO. TH1 is the cheapest and easiest to use as it only has one amp head. So it's much easier to configure. It also lets you stack guitar cabinets (I use two typically, and four microphones) and use impulses really easily and save all the bits as a preset.

Here is my TH1 preset thread btw.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...2013&hl=rig
I keep cracking open TH2 and MAN is it every stacked with options. So many heads to choose from that It's almost overwhelming. And they do sound better IMHO than the heads in Guitar Rig (just one mans thoughts, that's all). In guitar rig I almost never used a HEAD. I would almost always use the SANSAMP rack unit which is a way to fake an amp head without using one. To this day I still don't like the tone of the heads in guitar rig generally as most are too boomy and fizzy for me. I only have one patch in GR with a head and it's called the BEN HIGGINS patch based on his Marshall lead tone.

QUOTE (Lovtscho @ Sep 29 2012, 05:26 AM) *
Just a question:

So you prefer the overloud instead of NI Guitar Rig? Has this to do with latency or sound?



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thefireball
post Sep 30 2012, 01:37 PM
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When I get a more powerful computer I will definitely try out Overloud.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 1 2012, 05:17 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Sep 30 2012, 08:37 AM) *
When I get a more powerful computer I will definitely try out Overloud.


Eh? As long as your machine meets the minimum specs, you can try it now. The specs are pretty minimal as I remember, lower than Guitar Rig. So if your machine was built in the past three years or so you'll be fine. I'd say go for it. Once you get a more powerful rig, then upgrade to try TH2 as it is a bit thicker. But TH1 will run on pretty much anything.

I was running it on my 13 inch laptop and it had zero latency and ran like a champ.

Todd




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thefireball
post Oct 1 2012, 05:46 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 30 2012, 11:17 PM) *
Eh? As long as your machine meets the minimum specs, you can try it now. The specs are pretty minimal as I remember, lower than Guitar Rig. So if your machine was built in the past three years or so you'll be fine. I'd say go for it. Once you get a more powerful rig, then upgrade to try TH2 as it is a bit thicker. But TH1 will run on pretty much anything.

I was running it on my 13 inch laptop and it had zero latency and ran like a champ.

Todd


Okay. Will try. it's just that Reaper and POD Farm have problems working in concert. All the load... I use my laptop for more than just music production - video editing and some gaming.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 2 2012, 02:48 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Oct 1 2012, 12:46 AM) *
Okay. Will try. it's just that Reaper and POD Farm have problems working in concert. All the load... I use my laptop for more than just music production - video editing and some gaming.


Quick tip. When using Reaper/TH1/Pod, try to quit everything else and temporarily turn off file access virus scan if you have it. Also, quit drop box, and any other synch/cloud apps. All these things together can overwhelm a laptop of standard build. I could run reaper/th1 on my 13 inch laptop without hiccups but I made a login just for recording that had nothing else in it. When windows launches, it loads all kinds of crap that lives in the dock on the bottom right of your screen.

So maybe make a login just for recording. IT sure helped me.

Todd


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Max Sokolov
post Oct 2 2012, 04:25 AM
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Wow, your sound is great! I even don't know, what to add!
Maybe just full song arrangement smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 2 2012, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (Max Sokolov @ Oct 1 2012, 11:25 PM) *
Wow, your sound is great! I even don't know, what to add!
Maybe just full song arrangement smile.gif


Thanks man smile.gif I"m working on the rest of the arrangement as we speak smile.gif The drums are By Ola Englund of FEARED. Love the way he programs drums; )

Todd


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wollace03
post Oct 2 2012, 06:56 PM
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stupid question but I always use my boss gt-10 as a usb interface and therfor the sounds of the gt 10...
what interface do you use? I think I cannot use the gt-10 as an interface and the overloud for the sounds....
what interfaces can you recommend?


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 3 2012, 02:59 AM
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I"m using a TASCAM M-164UF. But it's probably a bit much for most. The good news is, you can use your BOSS as an interface smile.gif Just turn off all the effects/sims or make a preset that has everything turned off. I did something similar when I was reviewing the Boss multipedal of that series. I had to dig in to the manual though. You may have to as well.

But once you get a clean sound, just install the demos for AMPLITUDE, GUITAR RIG, OVERLOUD. You can use them as stand alone apps or inside reaper. smile.gif


There are WADS of threads debating the merits of various interfaces. IT really comes down to budget in many cases. How much you can spend will often dicate the set of choices for interface. But you can skip that for now, and just use the boss. smile.gif

Todd

stupid question but I always use my boss gt-10 as a usb interface and therfor the sounds of the gt 10...
what interface do you use? I think I cannot use the gt-10 as an interface and the overloud for the sounds....
what interfaces can you recommend?
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wollace03
post Oct 3 2012, 08:48 AM
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thank you todd!

I will try that... cause I really like the samples of overloud..


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 4 2012, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE (wollace03 @ Oct 3 2012, 03:48 AM) *
thank you todd!

I will try that... cause I really like the samples of overloud..


Keep in mind that the patch you are hearing in my SIX DEMON BAG recording is a complex custom build that took me about a week of non stop tweaking to settle on.Two cabinets, four microphones, blah blah. It's a big patch and I"ve added IMPULSES that are not part of OVERLOUD but can be installed separately. But having said that, even right out of the box I LOVED the OVERLOUD PATCHES! I had to work like crazy in GUITAR RIG to get good tone. But in OVERLOUD, it just sorta happens smile.gif

SPIFFY THREAD FROM UNCREATOR WITH FREE KILLER CAB IMPULSES!


Here is the link to the AWESOME thread from uncreator with links to wads of FREE amp sims and the AMAZING Gods Cab Impulses which are also free!!!!

**You may be saying "What are Impulses?" This is also covered in the thread linked below smile.gif

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=43940



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